Barbara from Chicago

I just returned from 2 weeks in Hong Kong, Xian, Guilin, Shanghai &amp; Beijing. I knew I wanted to do some shopping, but didn't know where to buy what for the best deal. <BR><BR>If you're in the same boat, I can now share my information from experience. The #1 best place anywhere for serious shopping is the HongQiao Market in Beijing. It is the tackiest paradise for great deals that I have ever been to in the world.<BR><BR>I made some wonderful purchases in every city, however, Beijing was our last stop and this market was incredible. I visited it every day for four days straight and still wish I bought more!<BR><BR>How about a Rolex for less than $20 and a Mont Blanc pen for $1? You must bargain to get your price, which is often @ 40%-60% less than the asking price.<BR><BR>The Market is in an old, dumpy building and includes four heavenly floors of knockoff and real everything: electronics, jewelry, watches, scarves, arts and crafts, leather goods (Fendi, Prada, Chanel, Gucci, etc), clothing (NorthFace), pearls, and more. PEARLS. Did I say PEARLS? THIS is the place to buy them. A dealer named RuPeiPei Pearls &amp; Jewelry came highly recommended to me. They are on the 4th floor in suite #4323. I was happy with them and if I am every lucky enough to return to Beijing, I would pay them a return visit. <BR><BR>Have fun!

Peter N-H

There have been several postings on this site warning against the purchase of gems, jade, pearls, and antiques in China, unless the buyer has considerable expertise. Those who do have such expertise have posted here before to point out that all they could find were fakes or at best low quality merchandise at high prices given the quality.<BR><BR>Certainly at Hong Qiao everything without exception which purports to be an upmarket branded item is a fake, as are all the &quot;antiques&quot; on the top floor. In this context it would be very surprising if there wasn't something dodgy about the pearls. In canny China it would also be rather surprising if something with a high value on international markets was curiously cheap.<BR><BR>China is not the place to shop for these items unless you are very well informed. In place where prices are set by barter, the largest influence on the actual price is neither quality nor rarity nor cost of manufacture, but the willingness of the purchaser to buy in ignorance, and there's nothing more tempting to sell in this context than an item (be it a branded handbag or a pearl) about which the buyer has an expectation of a high price, and the temptation to produce knock-offs of these items is even greater. And on clothing, bags, pens, antiques (all fake), vendors frequently ask ten to fifteen times what they reasonably expect to get, and usually at least five times that price, especially of foreigners. It is not to be imagined that the situation with other apparently valuable items such as pearls is any different.<BR><BR>Knock-off handbags, watches, and pens are one thing, but the best advice on shopping for gems, jewellery, antiques, etc. in China is DON'T. If you absolutely must shop for such items, do so with extreme scepticism, read very widely before you leave, and first visit reliable suppliers at home to learn about quality and price. Do not expect anything whatsoever told you by vendors in markets such as Hong Qiao to be true. You will only ever be told what is convenient to the seller.<BR><BR>Hong Qiao is nevertheless fun, as are Liuli Qiao (ten to fifteen times the price), Pangjiayuan (at least five times), and Xiu Shui Silk Market (Y145 for a Timberland shirt which they'll actually part with for Y35, and, yes, it's certainly fake). But realise that whatever you buy won't be what you are told it is. As long as you realise that, then a good time can be had by all, buyer and seller alike.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Susan

What is a good place in Hong Kong to buy brand-name knockoffs for handbags, scarves, shoes etc?

Peter N-H

Hong Kong makes at least some attempt at regulation of such items. They can be found, but not in such profusion and variety, or as cheaply, as they can in mainland China, and particularly just across the border in Shenzhen, which is where Hong Kongers to to shop en masse.<BR><BR>As long as you don't have a British passport (and possibly now even if you do--check with the British consulate in HK for the latest information), you can cross into the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone at Lo Wu, reached on the MTR (subway system) with a permit issued at the border, valid only for that zone. It's best not to do this if you already have a valid and unused Chinese visa, however, as they will insist on activating that instead. <BR><BR>The neighbourhood around the crossing point is full of shops selling knock-off everything. Remarks made about pricing in Beijing markets apply here, too, and if you can take an canny and experienced Hong Konger with you.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Andrea

I agree with everything Peter said (but share Barbara's enthusiasm for thinking it's fun!). <BR><BR>In Hong Kong, the night market in Kowloon has a lot of name brand fakes, as do some of the smaller street markets in Soho on Hong Kong side.<BR><BR>Shanghai also has a huge market with lots of fakes - it's called Xiang Yang Market and it's on Huai Hai Zhong Lu and Xiang Yang Lu. <BR><BR>Have fun!

Marilyn

So, Andrea and Peter, I am curious to ask your opinion about some of the fakes we saw at the Silk Market in Beijing. We saw branded merchandise from US chains like Gap that appeared to have store hang tags attached. They <BR>looked so authentic that we joked you could probably return the item to a US store if you didn't want it. <BR><BR>We were a product development team, fairly knowledgable about manufacturing product in Asia, and we thought perhaps these goods were manufactured in China, hang tags and all, and the &quot;overruns&quot; or &quot;seconds&quot; ended up in markets like this. Do you think they actually bothered to make fake hang tags for the tourists? Wouldn't seem like you would need to add that touch, would it?<BR><BR>At any rate, the stuff we bought was real enough -- lovely silk and burn-out velvet scarves, silk chenille, and cashmere sweaters for a fraction of the US price. The Silk Market was a half block from our hotel so we sometimes went there twice in one day! The MOST shopping fun!

Peter N-H

The Silk Market is fun, although since it's so well-known to tourists, and so close to several five-star hotels, it was never the best choice for clothing and other fakes. The Sanlitun Market used to be better, and the Russian Market at Yabao Lu. But Sanlitun isn't the same now it's been rehoused (although worth a visit), and the entire Yabao Lu area has been flattened. Although that market will be rehoused, too, it probably won't be the same. But smaller, local markets offer the same goods--cases, shoes, bags, clothes, etc.--at much lower starting prices. One example is directly across the road from the north side of the Kunlun Hotel (I'm sorry, I've temporarily forgotten the name), which is where I usually shop. A shirt for which you may be asked Y180 in Xiu Shui, is clearly marked at Y45 here. Much more like reality.<BR><BR>But on the faking business, it's said in Wenzhou on the southeast coast, the capital of fake clothing, that you can pick up copies of Paris pr&ecirc;t-&agrave;-porter collections there within a week of them appearing in Paris. In short, there's nothing China's clothing industry can't do.<BR><BR>And yes, tags and all labels and packaging are routinely faked, although I've never yet found one which didn't contain a spelling error or two. The point is to convince the Chinese and other non-English speaking Asian markets, and less so the tiny market of foreign visitors. Identical items with competing companies logos perfectly stitiched into them may hand next to each other. Fabric mixture content labels should simply be ignored in favour of using your fingers--everything's always claimed to be 100% cotton, and it sometimes may be, but at other times it drip-dries with remarkable speed. How those without immense experience in the industry tell good quality real cashmere, pashmina, and so on from fake, I've no idea.<BR><BR>It would seem logical that stolen stock and overruns would appear, but the nearest I've found were in stores in Xiamen (again on the east coast) which were selling quality rejects which had had their brand labels wholly or partly snipped out at the time of rejection. Some were unfinished, but some were that kind of second which had needed a very good look over to find the flaw.<BR><BR>But I suspect that the volume of overruns and stolen stock would be tiny compared to what the industry can churn out in copies for sale across Asia, and the risks too high. Often the copies are very good. More often time shows that the fabric isn't what's expected, the finishing not up to standard, the leather either not leather, or not properly cured, the colours not fast, etc. etc. Be sure that every corner which can be cut, will be, to keep manufacturing costs as low as possible. Nevertheless, many of these items are still very good value if you've bargained the price down to a few dollars.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Marilyn

Thanks, Peter. Everything you've said makes sense and fits with my own experiences. I've bought lots of the &quot;labels-cut-out&quot; seconds in Hong Kong. We didn't see any spelling errors in the hang tags, but then we weren't looking at them with proofreading in mind. I hadn't thought about the fabric content being incorrect. That's a really good tip to bear in mind.<BR><BR>And hey, I didn't say it was &quot;good quality&quot; cashmere -- but I actually like the cheaper stuff ok. It's thinner and since I live in a mild climate, the warmth level is better for me.<BR><BR>Thanks again. It is great to have you and Andrea on this forum -- you are both so knowledgeable and generous with your information.

Susan

Andrea and Peter - thx for your responses. However, I only have a day to shop in HK and would not venture off too far(wrt to Shenzen). <BR>Andrea - you mention the night market in Kowloon. Are you referring to the Temple St market or ladies market ( I may not be using the right names since I got these from a friend.) <BR>Also, is it safe for a woman to be at the night market alone?<BR><BR>

Andrea

<BR>Regarding Hong Kong: I was referring to the Temple street market, and I do believe it's relatively safe for a female on your own. Personally, I feel safer in Hong Kong and Shanghai even at night than I do in certain parts of certain US cities during the day.<BR><BR>Regarding the fake clothing: In Shanghai, at Xiang Yang market, I think it's pretty safe to say that all of the items are fakes (certainly ALL of the bags, pens, watches, North Face coats, etc. are). There are other small stores, though, that have overruns and seconds of many brands manufactured in China, like Ann Taylor, Express, and Gap.

Nancy

Susan:<BR><BR>For what it's worth, although the Temple St/Ladies Market is fun in terms of people watching, I think the merchandise is very ordinary. There are one or two stalls selling some antiques/handicrafts, but there are a lot of T-shirts and kids toys. . I think it is a fun way to spend an evening in Hong Kong, but if you are looking for unusual items , cashmere, silk or designer clothing you will be disappointed I think. <BR><BR>Other places you might think about are:<BR><BR>1. Pedder Building, Pedder Street, Central Hong Kong - the building is located right in the heart of downtown Hong Kong. The basement and first floor are taken up by Shanghai Tang, which has some very interesting rather fashion forward Chinese-style clothing (think hot pink silk Mao jackets) and gifts, silk bathrobes, etc. Pricey, but worth a trip. They have funny watches with Chairman Mao's hand waiving. The rest of the building designer discount shops, with Channel suits, etc. You need to spend time sorting through stuff if you are serious, but there are bargains. There is also a Blanc de Chine shop with beautiful clothes, silk quilt covers, etc. Again, this is expensive but worth a look at least. There are also cashmere shops and lots of handbag shops.<BR><BR>2. Stanley Market - A trip to Stanley is a must in my view, and not just for (and maybe in spite of) the shopping. Stanley Market has lots of souvenirs, including framed prints and artwork at very good prices. The souvenirs are not special handicrafts, but there are some fun things like you can get a chop made with your name in Chinese, etc. I think this is a fun way to spend the morning, then have lunch and head back. One of the best parts is the bus ride over and back, as you go up and over the mountains with spectacular harbour views. Be sure to get the bus which takes the mountain route, and NOT the Aberdeen Tunnel route. I believe they are the #6 and #6A buses, but please check with your hotel. Better yet, get on the bus at the main bus terminus at Exchange Square in Central. The buses start from here, and there is a map showing the route, so you can be sure of getting on the right bus. The fare is HK$7 or so (about US$1). Try to get as close to the front upstairs as you can. The Boathouse in Stanley is a good place for lunch, although there are several good restaurants along the quay in Stanley. On the way back, stop at Repulse Bay and walk the huge curving beach to the temple of Tin Hau (goddess of the sea) at the end.<BR><BR>3. Causeway Bay - The small streets off Hennessy Road , across the street from the Sogo department store, has a myriad small shops selling designer goods as discount. You have to spend a lot of time looking through stuff, but if you are determined, you will find DKNY and other brands. <BR><BR>Finally, get the book &quot;Born to Shop Hong Kong&quot; by Suzy Gershman if you are really interested in major shopping.<BR><BR>Also,as noted above the night market in Hong Kong is perfectly safe for a women alone.<BR>

Marilyn

Oooooooo Nancy -- great post! I have saved it for my next trip to HK and will forward it to a friend who goes there often on biz. I used to shop all the little hole-in-the-wall places in TST but most were gone on my last trip.<BR><BR>Thanks!

Cicerone

topping

amandac

when in HK we always buy our gifts and any jewellery from the CAC (chinese arts and crafts shop - there is one by the star ferry and one off Jordan road - everything is what it claims to be and you can spend next to nothing buying bits of art, gifts, furniture or spend a fortune and buy some really wacky stuff - its a must for those wanting something authentic and the jewellery is a bargain and genuine

sometimes they have discount days which are worth asking about

amandac