SE Asia - First time - Lessons learned
Jan 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
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SE Asia - First time - Lessons learned
Our family just returned from our first trip to SE Asia, and while I might not have entirely new information to share, we did learn some lessons on our trip and confirmed others that I thought might be helpful to future travelers.
First, a huge thanks to Kathie, GPanda and rhhmhk for all of their great postings to enquiries over the years. This information was invaluable.
Our family of four (two girls, ages 14 and 11) flew out of JFK on the Thai Air flight non-stop to Bangkok. We really splurged and did business class. It was money well spent because this is a really long flight. You know it is, and you talk about how long it is, but it is another thing to actually experience it. After 12 hours my older daughter asked me how much longer, and when I answered about 4 hours she said “Are you joking!” Only so many movies you can watch before you are ready to move on. We were a bit bleary-eyed when we arrived. For those who have been through Thai immigration, these are no-nonsense guys. But when my younger daughter had her picture taken, the officer started laughing and invited us behind his desk to see the picture he took. Staring into space and slack-jawed is never a good luck for a girl. We appreciated him letting down his guard and sharing the moment with us. Got our bags and made our way out. We had arranged for the hotel car to pick us up and we were glad because it is quite a scene with people and signs. The Hilton sign was a welcome sight.
LESSON LEARNED: If you have 4 people and 6 bags, request a van. My older daughter struggles with motion sickness and after a long flight and jet lag, and then a jerky ride in the care, she gave in to her sickness. Thanks to TSA in the US I had plenty of quart-size bags and we were able to spare the driver any future clean up.
Our hotel was the Millenium Hilton. I’ve read about the “right” and “wrong” side of the river, but didn’t notice a difference. In fact, being on the “wrong” side of the river gave us great views of the city, Grand Palace and Wat Arun. I had booked a 2 bedroom suite with full living room for $380 a night. It also included breakfast daily at the top of the hotel and one dinner. This place was huge, and the extra space was appreciated in adjusting to the time change. We thought this was a great hotel. Beautiful lobby, good restaurants, really interesting pool. Great choice in our opinion.
One thing that surprised us that we didn’t realize is that Bangkok is a BIG city that is really spread out. Things aren’t very centrally located as in Manhattan, Paris or Rome. So we were really glad we had contacted Tong for guides. We actually booked guides with drivers for every day in Bangkok, and while we wouldn’t do it on our next trip since we have a better feel for the place, we were very glad we did. Having someone get us to the places where we wanted to go saved us from the misery of getting lost and having heat strokes all in the name of family fun.
Day 1: Our guide was Nui. She is a sweet girl and very helpful. We started at the Grand Palace. It was so hot I didn’t wear pants thinking I could get a sarong there. They either didn’t have any more, or weren’t providing them anymore. But thankfully Nui knew a vendor outside and was able to borrow one. She was invaluable in leading us through the crowds and heat, finding shady places to tell us about it. And when we were done, she made a quick phone call and presto, the driver was right outside the entrance.
Our next stop didn’t make sense, but had to be done, and that was a first fitting at the tailor. My husband had set up an appointment with Jack and Monet Il Sarto at the Marriott Resort and Spa. (By the way, this is a lovely hotel. I can see why people stay there even though it is a little further out.) We dropped Bob and Karen’s names, met the turtles who live in the shop, and picked out fabric. It was a pain to leave town and then go back, but having the driver and Nui get us in and out quickly helped.
Next was lunch at Coconut Palm, a local restaurant behind the Grand Palace towards the river. Great Thai food. Nui ate with us and we learned a lot about Thailand and the Royal Family. Food for all 5 was $11. Then off to a tour of the canals. The driver took us straight to the boats, Nui got a 25% discount. Hour boat ride in a long tail boat was $20. Nice to have the wind cool us down.
Next stop was the Reclining Buddha and Wat Pho. In honor of the King’s 80th birthday they are replacing all the terra cotta tiles on the roof of the temple area, so Nui took us to where they were doing that. She showed us that we were allowed to write an inscription on the back of a tile and that it would eventually be put on the roof. The kids thought leaving a note for posterity was great.
We were tired, so back to the hotel for an afternoon swim, dinner at the hotel for free (great buffet with Italian, Thai, Japanese and western food.) Then off to bed.
Day 2 – Tom was our guide for the rest of our days. We met him early to go to the floating market. I know people say this is touristy, and it really is, but with someone like Tom, we were able to get past that. He got us a boat without a noisy motor. He bought food from the boat vendors for us to try. We did a little trinket buying on the river. Then Tom asked the boat man to take us further into the village where the tourists were not. No noisy boats loaded with people. Just a quite river village. It was really interesting seeing where the real people live. By the time we made it back it was crowded in the canal (think I95 on a Friday afternoon.) The reminder to keep fingers inside the boat was appreciated as we bumped back and forth to get out.
While driving to the floating market, there was a strange squeeking sound from the back of the van. We found out after the boat trip that this is a cooler that Tom had stocked with frozen water bottles and cool towels, we started calling them “magic towels”. Great way to rejuvenate.
After the floating market we were on our way to the tiger temple. Before going there we sidetracked to do an elephant ride with some Karen people near the tiger temple. Great fun for the kids. After the elephant ride, on the road back to the tiger temple, there is an area where wild monkeys live and they sometimes go down to the road to be fed. They were out and we provided some food. More great fun.
On our way to the tiger temple we got to see some Thai police graft in action. We were pulled over and Tom had to bribe the policeman so he wouldn’t give a ticket for having the wrong color license plate. Great experience to see this process.
The tiger temple was next. I’d read about whether or not these tigers are drugged or mistreated. I’d also asked Tom and Nui their thoughts. They didn’t think this was the case, and after going I don’t think they were. These tigers are acclimated to people petting them during afternoon nap from the time they are babies. It was really exciting. And the tigers would sit up while we were there, which I don’t think they would have done if they were drugged. We have some great pictures of kids petting tigers who are wide wake. Everyone can make their own decision about this, but these animals looked very well cared for, and the caution the guides use in taking people around made us feel that it was safe.
More magic towels, and then time for lunch was way past, and Tom had called ahead to a road side restaurant to order food, so it was on the table and ready when we arrived. Great food, and the store next to it sold some great Thai herbal lotions (good gifts.) Finally, we went to the museum and bridge in Kanchanaburi which my husband and I enjoyed greatly and the kids pretended to enjoy. More magic towels, and then a long ride back to Bangkok, but a great day.
Day 3 – Tom took us to the weekend market. He began by taking us to the food area which we never would have gone to on our own. Great sampling to be had and visually stunning. Then off to the regular market. I had the Nancy Chandler map but appreciated Tom getting us to the right spots and pointing us in the right direction. He left us to do our own shopping. We didn’t stay long and were glad because it got crowded and hot, so more magic towels. Still had a great time.
Then off to lunch at Jim Thompson house. This is a great place to eat and visit. We are now Jim Thompson addicts. Incredible silk items in the shop.
LESSON LEARNED: We went to the outlet later in our trip. The prices were about 20% cheaper but fewer choices. Most of the outlet is bolts of silk. Price ideas: little coin purses were about $12-15, ties were $45ish.
We were leaving that night for Phnom Penh so went back to the hotel for swim and pack.
Day 4-7 – The motivation for us taking this trip in the first place was to visit my sister and her husband who moved to Phnom Penh. He bought Rubies, an expat wine bar, and she is running the Cambodian silk weaving operations for Carol Cassidy from Laos. We were glad to see them and spend Christmas with them, but Phnom Penh (PP) was not our favorite place. We are still trying to get our heads around this town. The corruption that is so evident (every govt official drives a $70K Lexus SUV and there are hundreds around town) and the lack of basic services was astounding. A lot of trash in the street. Beggars at every tourist site. Amputees waving limbs at us at entrances for the National Museum and Tuol Sleng to garner sympathy and money. I know it has only been about 10 years with some modicum of peace in this city and country, but I’m having a hard time seeing how this place will recover. The govt does nothing for the people and lets the NGOs do what ever they can. The govt officials have bought up most of the land around the city because they know that western organizations with money will pay what ever to go in, so land values are astronomical for the average citizen. And then the corruption to run a business is horrible. Sorry to sound so negative.
We did go to the Royal Palace which was beautiful. Not one Cambodian in the place unlike the palace in Bangkok which was filled with Thais. The National Museum has quite a ways to go. I don’t know how any artifacts are preserved given the condition of the walls, floors and ceiling. We visited Tuol Sleng (former interrogation and torture center for the Khmer Rouge). We made it 10 minutes before my tender-hearted girls were in tears. We did a boat ride on the Mekong, but seeing the other side of the river and the “more than abject” poverty there was difficult.
My husband and I went to the Killing Fields on our own (left the girls with my sister for breakfast.) This was a very wise decision. It is like visiting a concentration camp in Europe but bleaker. I had read that clothing and bones are still creeping out of the ground along the paths, and thought it couldn’t still be true. But it was true, and we were glad the kids skipped it because it was pretty harsh.
There were some bright spots in PP. We had connected with an NGO based in our home town, and visited with one of their health advisors and the 13 Cambodian kids that he and his wife adopted. The kids are war orphans, AIDS orphans, former child slaves, etc. but they were lovely and kind and sweet and bright. We had brought Christmas gifts for them, ate lunch with them, played card games. It was a highlight of our time there.
I guess you could stay at Le Royal and eat at the FCC every meal and not see this city, but you would have a very different view of PP from what we experienced. We flew out on Day 7 and were a little relieved to say good bye.
Day 8-10 – Siem Reap – It is hard to go with a day by day description of what we did because it involved seeing temples every day. Words can’t do this place justice. All the sites are amazing. Our favorites were Preah Kahn, Bayon, Angkor Thom and Ta Prohm. We stayed at the Angkor Century Resort and Spa because we couldn’t find anything else available. It was a fine hotel. Good rooms, clean bathrooms, nice pool. Wouldn’t choose to stay there again, but it did the job. Most of the restaurants are along a main street, and I’m sorry I can’t remember them. I was struggling with what we were referring to as “Buddha’s Revenge”, so most of my meals in Siem Reap were white rice and toast. A highlight of Siem Reap was our visit to Artisans d’Angkor, a shop for the adjacent school that teaches craftsmanship to impoverished kids nearby. Great quality woodcarving and silks.
While visiting the temples, my kids had a hard time with the local kids’ pushy salesmanship. We quickly learned how to say “No, thank you” in Khmer and that seemed to discourage them, but please know that the hard sell will be there.
LESSON LEARNED: Negotiate with your tuk-tuk driver before you start for the day. They’ll be very friendly and fun while you are out and about, but might try to rip you off at the end of the day. Our driver tried to charge $10 per person. Normal price is $15 total. We got him down to $20, but then made sure we had a better price the next day.
We flew out of Siem Reap at the end of Day 10. We were going to Hanoi via Vietnam Airlines.
LESSON LEARNED: Our plane left Siem Reap 20 minutes early¬. Don’t be late for a Vietnam Airlines flight!!!
Hanoi – What a relief from the heat. Temperature were 30 degrees cooler. Jackets were a must. We were enjoying the break in the weather. Hanoi is an incredible city. The traffic is like a living organism, creeping its way through the streets without a break. The people were wonderfully friendly. The architecture was very interesting. We stayed at the Hilton Opera and with diamond and gold HHonors, were able to get both rooms upgraded. Hilton also had a family plan where we paid regular price for the first room and got the second room for half-price. We thought it was a really nice hotel, and had great views of the Opera House.
Day 11 – It was December 31 by now. We headed to the “Hanoi Hilton” for our first sight. The exhibit for the “American War” was closed for refurbishing, but we learned a lot about how the French treated Vietnamese who were opposed to colonization. We realized these are a tough people. We had read about the art in Hanoi and were interested in buying something for some blank walls is our house. So after the prison we headed to Mai Gallery on Hang Bong street. We immediately liked some of their items but thought we should look around some more. Made our way to Hoan Kiem Lake for a forgettable lunch. Then walking around the Old Quarter. This place was an amazing collection of architecture, street vendors, motos, shoppers, and interesting electricity arrangements. We had a great time wandering around, including go to the Dong Xuan Market. Sensory overload set in so we headed back to the hotel for a New Year’s Eve dinner.
LESSON LEARNED: Make sure you have a metered taxi. This was the first of a few taxi lessons in Hanoi.
New Year’s Eve at the hotel was a nice buffet dinner. We had arrived at 1:00 AM the night before so were pretty wiped out. There was a celebration going on in front of the Opera House, but we called it a night before midnight.
Day 11 – January 1 – Unbeknownst to us this was a national holiday in Vietnam. We wanted to go see Uncle Ho’s mausoleum, but the lines were prohibitive. This is a very patriotic nation with lots of national pride. We went to the HCM museum instead and got to see every picture taken of HCM and every letter he’d ever written. We didn’t stay as long as a patriotic Vietnamese would, but still learned a lot. We next wanted to find HCM’s little house. He thought the palace was too grand for him so had a little house built on the palace grounds. We wandered, and wandered, and then decided to wander some more but couldn’t find it. Saw lots of Hanoi though. Our next stop was the Museum of Fine Arts, not to see the art, but to visit their museum shop where we’d read they sell artwork. Time for another taxi lesson.
LESSON LEARNED: Follow on a map where you are going to monitor the cab driver’s route. I love maps and was following where the taxi was going out of curiousity. He began making all kinds of strange turns, and I told my husband we were getting taken for a ride, literally and figuratively. At a red light we pointed on a map where we were and where we wanted to go. The driver nodded, headed the right direction and drove RIGHT PAST the museum. After a few blocks we told him to stop and we wanted to get out. He told us the price was twice what was shown on the meter. We don’t know Vietnamese so paid, and skulked our way back to the museum.
The shop at the museum is nice, and the grounds are a respite from the Hanoi traffic, but we didn’t find what we were looking for so headed to lunch at Alfresco’s. The kids were done with Asian food, so we were eating lots of pizza at this point. It was great food. Then found another taxi, showed him on a map where we were and where we wanted to go (Temple of Literature), and made sure he was using the meter. The trip was uneventful, and the Temple of Literature was beautiful. Then, oh no, another taxi to see the Water Puppet show. Incredible site. Not to be missed.
Day 12 – Began with a visit to the ceramic village of Bat Trang. They have awesome ceramics. We could only find one place that took credit cards and shipped internationally. We found some great items at other places but would have had to pay in dong and carry things ourselves. This is well worth a visit if you enjoy ceramics. We did use the hotel concierge to negotiate the taxi price so there were no problems. Our next stop was the military history museum. I was tired so didn’t wander as much, but my husband really enjoyed it. A very different view of the war from what we learned in the US. For the life of my I can’t remember any meals this day. We did finish the day with a trip back to Mai Gallery to purchase the paintings we liked. We had looked at other galleries in our wanderings, and felt that this was the best one. Our opinion only, of course.
Day 13 – Early flight back to Bangkok. More transportation problems awaited in Bangkok. The hotel didn’t have us on the list for a car so got a taxi. The taxi got in the middle of the financial district and then asked us where we were going. They didn’t know the hotel, couldn’t read English. Fortunately we knew “Taksin Bridge” and then were able to point to the hotel from the bridge. A quick stop at the hotel to drop off bags, eat lunch, and then meet the driver from SJ Jewelry.
We made an appointment with Lily, per Kathie’s instructions, and while she did greet us at the door, she was already helping another customer from Seattle. (Word gets around.) But we had a lovely lady helping us with some sapphires. I don’t normally talk prices with people, but anonymity brings boldness, and to help others who wonder what kind of deals there are, here are some of the things we bought. I got a sapphire ring for $1800, it appraised at home for $4000, the jeweler said he would have sold it for $3800. I got a sapphire pendant for $600 that appraised for $1800 and would have sold for $1200. I got a ruby pendant for about the same price with same appraisal and selling price. What my jeweler said is that the prices I paid at SJ is the price they would have paid if they were buying wholesale. SJ had quite a selection, so I know all things weren’t this expensive. Then again they had lots of items that were more expensive. All in all, a great jewelry store with excellent quality and excellent prices compared to the US. Merry Christmas to me!
Back to the hotel to catch the boat to the skytrain to Sukhumvit to see a little of this area. Walked along the street before having an excellent Italian dinner (sorry, can’t remember the name or the street.)
Day 14 – We went straight to Jack first thing for more fittings and had Tom pick us up there. We headed to Jim Thompson outlet – didn’t know it was so far. We had lunch at Anna’s Café (Harmonique was closed). Enjoyed a nice meal and, oh my gosh, the kids found Thai food they liked (cashew chicken). Then to the flower market – incredible. Then to Chinatown – just to see it.
LESSON LEARNED: All the little trinkets you see that are all the same at all the markets come from Chinatown. This is the wholesale area where people get things to see in the market. No bargaining here because it is all wholesale, but the prices are lots better than the tourist markets for the same stuff.
After Chinatown we headed to the Wat Prayun to feed the turtles. A welcome respite from Bangkok traffic and Chinatown. Then finally to Wat Arun at sunset. Great time to visit there. Finally, back to Jack’s for last minute fittings, and then hotel for dinner and packing.
Day 15 – We started early with Tom, but had to detour to buy a suitcase. Jack’s prices were so good that my husband got quite a few items. Tom took us to a wholesale luggage place so we could get a decent quality bag for a great price. Then, off to Vimanmek Palace, Wat Benchamabophit (marble temple) and finally Golden Mount. We finally bid Tom a fond farewell, and headed to the hotel for a final swim and packing. My husband and kids were flying on the 1:00 AM flight to JFK and I was flying the next day to Chiang Rai to spend a week in Mae Sai with a friend (another story for another day.)
I apologize for the length of this. We had such a great time, and I had no idea I would go on this long. If you made it to the end of my novella, thanks for the effort.
I asked my girls what final thoughts they would like to share with you and we got:
1. Wear socks in Siem Reap – it is dusty
2. Go on the Mekong River tour in Phnom Penh
3. Be sure to bargain even though you feel uncomfortable doing it
4. The tiger temple is the best.
5. Buy jewelry at SJ (I think they already have their eyes on my demise)
6. Go on a klong tour
7. Go to the temples around Angkor Wat in the PM. It is hot, but much less crowded.
Again, thanks to all of you for all your postings, questions, insights and comments. Hope there is something here that is helpful to someone in the future.
First, a huge thanks to Kathie, GPanda and rhhmhk for all of their great postings to enquiries over the years. This information was invaluable.
Our family of four (two girls, ages 14 and 11) flew out of JFK on the Thai Air flight non-stop to Bangkok. We really splurged and did business class. It was money well spent because this is a really long flight. You know it is, and you talk about how long it is, but it is another thing to actually experience it. After 12 hours my older daughter asked me how much longer, and when I answered about 4 hours she said “Are you joking!” Only so many movies you can watch before you are ready to move on. We were a bit bleary-eyed when we arrived. For those who have been through Thai immigration, these are no-nonsense guys. But when my younger daughter had her picture taken, the officer started laughing and invited us behind his desk to see the picture he took. Staring into space and slack-jawed is never a good luck for a girl. We appreciated him letting down his guard and sharing the moment with us. Got our bags and made our way out. We had arranged for the hotel car to pick us up and we were glad because it is quite a scene with people and signs. The Hilton sign was a welcome sight.
LESSON LEARNED: If you have 4 people and 6 bags, request a van. My older daughter struggles with motion sickness and after a long flight and jet lag, and then a jerky ride in the care, she gave in to her sickness. Thanks to TSA in the US I had plenty of quart-size bags and we were able to spare the driver any future clean up.
Our hotel was the Millenium Hilton. I’ve read about the “right” and “wrong” side of the river, but didn’t notice a difference. In fact, being on the “wrong” side of the river gave us great views of the city, Grand Palace and Wat Arun. I had booked a 2 bedroom suite with full living room for $380 a night. It also included breakfast daily at the top of the hotel and one dinner. This place was huge, and the extra space was appreciated in adjusting to the time change. We thought this was a great hotel. Beautiful lobby, good restaurants, really interesting pool. Great choice in our opinion.
One thing that surprised us that we didn’t realize is that Bangkok is a BIG city that is really spread out. Things aren’t very centrally located as in Manhattan, Paris or Rome. So we were really glad we had contacted Tong for guides. We actually booked guides with drivers for every day in Bangkok, and while we wouldn’t do it on our next trip since we have a better feel for the place, we were very glad we did. Having someone get us to the places where we wanted to go saved us from the misery of getting lost and having heat strokes all in the name of family fun.
Day 1: Our guide was Nui. She is a sweet girl and very helpful. We started at the Grand Palace. It was so hot I didn’t wear pants thinking I could get a sarong there. They either didn’t have any more, or weren’t providing them anymore. But thankfully Nui knew a vendor outside and was able to borrow one. She was invaluable in leading us through the crowds and heat, finding shady places to tell us about it. And when we were done, she made a quick phone call and presto, the driver was right outside the entrance.
Our next stop didn’t make sense, but had to be done, and that was a first fitting at the tailor. My husband had set up an appointment with Jack and Monet Il Sarto at the Marriott Resort and Spa. (By the way, this is a lovely hotel. I can see why people stay there even though it is a little further out.) We dropped Bob and Karen’s names, met the turtles who live in the shop, and picked out fabric. It was a pain to leave town and then go back, but having the driver and Nui get us in and out quickly helped.
Next was lunch at Coconut Palm, a local restaurant behind the Grand Palace towards the river. Great Thai food. Nui ate with us and we learned a lot about Thailand and the Royal Family. Food for all 5 was $11. Then off to a tour of the canals. The driver took us straight to the boats, Nui got a 25% discount. Hour boat ride in a long tail boat was $20. Nice to have the wind cool us down.
Next stop was the Reclining Buddha and Wat Pho. In honor of the King’s 80th birthday they are replacing all the terra cotta tiles on the roof of the temple area, so Nui took us to where they were doing that. She showed us that we were allowed to write an inscription on the back of a tile and that it would eventually be put on the roof. The kids thought leaving a note for posterity was great.
We were tired, so back to the hotel for an afternoon swim, dinner at the hotel for free (great buffet with Italian, Thai, Japanese and western food.) Then off to bed.
Day 2 – Tom was our guide for the rest of our days. We met him early to go to the floating market. I know people say this is touristy, and it really is, but with someone like Tom, we were able to get past that. He got us a boat without a noisy motor. He bought food from the boat vendors for us to try. We did a little trinket buying on the river. Then Tom asked the boat man to take us further into the village where the tourists were not. No noisy boats loaded with people. Just a quite river village. It was really interesting seeing where the real people live. By the time we made it back it was crowded in the canal (think I95 on a Friday afternoon.) The reminder to keep fingers inside the boat was appreciated as we bumped back and forth to get out.
While driving to the floating market, there was a strange squeeking sound from the back of the van. We found out after the boat trip that this is a cooler that Tom had stocked with frozen water bottles and cool towels, we started calling them “magic towels”. Great way to rejuvenate.
After the floating market we were on our way to the tiger temple. Before going there we sidetracked to do an elephant ride with some Karen people near the tiger temple. Great fun for the kids. After the elephant ride, on the road back to the tiger temple, there is an area where wild monkeys live and they sometimes go down to the road to be fed. They were out and we provided some food. More great fun.
On our way to the tiger temple we got to see some Thai police graft in action. We were pulled over and Tom had to bribe the policeman so he wouldn’t give a ticket for having the wrong color license plate. Great experience to see this process.
The tiger temple was next. I’d read about whether or not these tigers are drugged or mistreated. I’d also asked Tom and Nui their thoughts. They didn’t think this was the case, and after going I don’t think they were. These tigers are acclimated to people petting them during afternoon nap from the time they are babies. It was really exciting. And the tigers would sit up while we were there, which I don’t think they would have done if they were drugged. We have some great pictures of kids petting tigers who are wide wake. Everyone can make their own decision about this, but these animals looked very well cared for, and the caution the guides use in taking people around made us feel that it was safe.
More magic towels, and then time for lunch was way past, and Tom had called ahead to a road side restaurant to order food, so it was on the table and ready when we arrived. Great food, and the store next to it sold some great Thai herbal lotions (good gifts.) Finally, we went to the museum and bridge in Kanchanaburi which my husband and I enjoyed greatly and the kids pretended to enjoy. More magic towels, and then a long ride back to Bangkok, but a great day.
Day 3 – Tom took us to the weekend market. He began by taking us to the food area which we never would have gone to on our own. Great sampling to be had and visually stunning. Then off to the regular market. I had the Nancy Chandler map but appreciated Tom getting us to the right spots and pointing us in the right direction. He left us to do our own shopping. We didn’t stay long and were glad because it got crowded and hot, so more magic towels. Still had a great time.
Then off to lunch at Jim Thompson house. This is a great place to eat and visit. We are now Jim Thompson addicts. Incredible silk items in the shop.
LESSON LEARNED: We went to the outlet later in our trip. The prices were about 20% cheaper but fewer choices. Most of the outlet is bolts of silk. Price ideas: little coin purses were about $12-15, ties were $45ish.
We were leaving that night for Phnom Penh so went back to the hotel for swim and pack.
Day 4-7 – The motivation for us taking this trip in the first place was to visit my sister and her husband who moved to Phnom Penh. He bought Rubies, an expat wine bar, and she is running the Cambodian silk weaving operations for Carol Cassidy from Laos. We were glad to see them and spend Christmas with them, but Phnom Penh (PP) was not our favorite place. We are still trying to get our heads around this town. The corruption that is so evident (every govt official drives a $70K Lexus SUV and there are hundreds around town) and the lack of basic services was astounding. A lot of trash in the street. Beggars at every tourist site. Amputees waving limbs at us at entrances for the National Museum and Tuol Sleng to garner sympathy and money. I know it has only been about 10 years with some modicum of peace in this city and country, but I’m having a hard time seeing how this place will recover. The govt does nothing for the people and lets the NGOs do what ever they can. The govt officials have bought up most of the land around the city because they know that western organizations with money will pay what ever to go in, so land values are astronomical for the average citizen. And then the corruption to run a business is horrible. Sorry to sound so negative.
We did go to the Royal Palace which was beautiful. Not one Cambodian in the place unlike the palace in Bangkok which was filled with Thais. The National Museum has quite a ways to go. I don’t know how any artifacts are preserved given the condition of the walls, floors and ceiling. We visited Tuol Sleng (former interrogation and torture center for the Khmer Rouge). We made it 10 minutes before my tender-hearted girls were in tears. We did a boat ride on the Mekong, but seeing the other side of the river and the “more than abject” poverty there was difficult.
My husband and I went to the Killing Fields on our own (left the girls with my sister for breakfast.) This was a very wise decision. It is like visiting a concentration camp in Europe but bleaker. I had read that clothing and bones are still creeping out of the ground along the paths, and thought it couldn’t still be true. But it was true, and we were glad the kids skipped it because it was pretty harsh.
There were some bright spots in PP. We had connected with an NGO based in our home town, and visited with one of their health advisors and the 13 Cambodian kids that he and his wife adopted. The kids are war orphans, AIDS orphans, former child slaves, etc. but they were lovely and kind and sweet and bright. We had brought Christmas gifts for them, ate lunch with them, played card games. It was a highlight of our time there.
I guess you could stay at Le Royal and eat at the FCC every meal and not see this city, but you would have a very different view of PP from what we experienced. We flew out on Day 7 and were a little relieved to say good bye.
Day 8-10 – Siem Reap – It is hard to go with a day by day description of what we did because it involved seeing temples every day. Words can’t do this place justice. All the sites are amazing. Our favorites were Preah Kahn, Bayon, Angkor Thom and Ta Prohm. We stayed at the Angkor Century Resort and Spa because we couldn’t find anything else available. It was a fine hotel. Good rooms, clean bathrooms, nice pool. Wouldn’t choose to stay there again, but it did the job. Most of the restaurants are along a main street, and I’m sorry I can’t remember them. I was struggling with what we were referring to as “Buddha’s Revenge”, so most of my meals in Siem Reap were white rice and toast. A highlight of Siem Reap was our visit to Artisans d’Angkor, a shop for the adjacent school that teaches craftsmanship to impoverished kids nearby. Great quality woodcarving and silks.
While visiting the temples, my kids had a hard time with the local kids’ pushy salesmanship. We quickly learned how to say “No, thank you” in Khmer and that seemed to discourage them, but please know that the hard sell will be there.
LESSON LEARNED: Negotiate with your tuk-tuk driver before you start for the day. They’ll be very friendly and fun while you are out and about, but might try to rip you off at the end of the day. Our driver tried to charge $10 per person. Normal price is $15 total. We got him down to $20, but then made sure we had a better price the next day.
We flew out of Siem Reap at the end of Day 10. We were going to Hanoi via Vietnam Airlines.
LESSON LEARNED: Our plane left Siem Reap 20 minutes early¬. Don’t be late for a Vietnam Airlines flight!!!
Hanoi – What a relief from the heat. Temperature were 30 degrees cooler. Jackets were a must. We were enjoying the break in the weather. Hanoi is an incredible city. The traffic is like a living organism, creeping its way through the streets without a break. The people were wonderfully friendly. The architecture was very interesting. We stayed at the Hilton Opera and with diamond and gold HHonors, were able to get both rooms upgraded. Hilton also had a family plan where we paid regular price for the first room and got the second room for half-price. We thought it was a really nice hotel, and had great views of the Opera House.
Day 11 – It was December 31 by now. We headed to the “Hanoi Hilton” for our first sight. The exhibit for the “American War” was closed for refurbishing, but we learned a lot about how the French treated Vietnamese who were opposed to colonization. We realized these are a tough people. We had read about the art in Hanoi and were interested in buying something for some blank walls is our house. So after the prison we headed to Mai Gallery on Hang Bong street. We immediately liked some of their items but thought we should look around some more. Made our way to Hoan Kiem Lake for a forgettable lunch. Then walking around the Old Quarter. This place was an amazing collection of architecture, street vendors, motos, shoppers, and interesting electricity arrangements. We had a great time wandering around, including go to the Dong Xuan Market. Sensory overload set in so we headed back to the hotel for a New Year’s Eve dinner.
LESSON LEARNED: Make sure you have a metered taxi. This was the first of a few taxi lessons in Hanoi.
New Year’s Eve at the hotel was a nice buffet dinner. We had arrived at 1:00 AM the night before so were pretty wiped out. There was a celebration going on in front of the Opera House, but we called it a night before midnight.
Day 11 – January 1 – Unbeknownst to us this was a national holiday in Vietnam. We wanted to go see Uncle Ho’s mausoleum, but the lines were prohibitive. This is a very patriotic nation with lots of national pride. We went to the HCM museum instead and got to see every picture taken of HCM and every letter he’d ever written. We didn’t stay as long as a patriotic Vietnamese would, but still learned a lot. We next wanted to find HCM’s little house. He thought the palace was too grand for him so had a little house built on the palace grounds. We wandered, and wandered, and then decided to wander some more but couldn’t find it. Saw lots of Hanoi though. Our next stop was the Museum of Fine Arts, not to see the art, but to visit their museum shop where we’d read they sell artwork. Time for another taxi lesson.
LESSON LEARNED: Follow on a map where you are going to monitor the cab driver’s route. I love maps and was following where the taxi was going out of curiousity. He began making all kinds of strange turns, and I told my husband we were getting taken for a ride, literally and figuratively. At a red light we pointed on a map where we were and where we wanted to go. The driver nodded, headed the right direction and drove RIGHT PAST the museum. After a few blocks we told him to stop and we wanted to get out. He told us the price was twice what was shown on the meter. We don’t know Vietnamese so paid, and skulked our way back to the museum.
The shop at the museum is nice, and the grounds are a respite from the Hanoi traffic, but we didn’t find what we were looking for so headed to lunch at Alfresco’s. The kids were done with Asian food, so we were eating lots of pizza at this point. It was great food. Then found another taxi, showed him on a map where we were and where we wanted to go (Temple of Literature), and made sure he was using the meter. The trip was uneventful, and the Temple of Literature was beautiful. Then, oh no, another taxi to see the Water Puppet show. Incredible site. Not to be missed.
Day 12 – Began with a visit to the ceramic village of Bat Trang. They have awesome ceramics. We could only find one place that took credit cards and shipped internationally. We found some great items at other places but would have had to pay in dong and carry things ourselves. This is well worth a visit if you enjoy ceramics. We did use the hotel concierge to negotiate the taxi price so there were no problems. Our next stop was the military history museum. I was tired so didn’t wander as much, but my husband really enjoyed it. A very different view of the war from what we learned in the US. For the life of my I can’t remember any meals this day. We did finish the day with a trip back to Mai Gallery to purchase the paintings we liked. We had looked at other galleries in our wanderings, and felt that this was the best one. Our opinion only, of course.
Day 13 – Early flight back to Bangkok. More transportation problems awaited in Bangkok. The hotel didn’t have us on the list for a car so got a taxi. The taxi got in the middle of the financial district and then asked us where we were going. They didn’t know the hotel, couldn’t read English. Fortunately we knew “Taksin Bridge” and then were able to point to the hotel from the bridge. A quick stop at the hotel to drop off bags, eat lunch, and then meet the driver from SJ Jewelry.
We made an appointment with Lily, per Kathie’s instructions, and while she did greet us at the door, she was already helping another customer from Seattle. (Word gets around.) But we had a lovely lady helping us with some sapphires. I don’t normally talk prices with people, but anonymity brings boldness, and to help others who wonder what kind of deals there are, here are some of the things we bought. I got a sapphire ring for $1800, it appraised at home for $4000, the jeweler said he would have sold it for $3800. I got a sapphire pendant for $600 that appraised for $1800 and would have sold for $1200. I got a ruby pendant for about the same price with same appraisal and selling price. What my jeweler said is that the prices I paid at SJ is the price they would have paid if they were buying wholesale. SJ had quite a selection, so I know all things weren’t this expensive. Then again they had lots of items that were more expensive. All in all, a great jewelry store with excellent quality and excellent prices compared to the US. Merry Christmas to me!
Back to the hotel to catch the boat to the skytrain to Sukhumvit to see a little of this area. Walked along the street before having an excellent Italian dinner (sorry, can’t remember the name or the street.)
Day 14 – We went straight to Jack first thing for more fittings and had Tom pick us up there. We headed to Jim Thompson outlet – didn’t know it was so far. We had lunch at Anna’s Café (Harmonique was closed). Enjoyed a nice meal and, oh my gosh, the kids found Thai food they liked (cashew chicken). Then to the flower market – incredible. Then to Chinatown – just to see it.
LESSON LEARNED: All the little trinkets you see that are all the same at all the markets come from Chinatown. This is the wholesale area where people get things to see in the market. No bargaining here because it is all wholesale, but the prices are lots better than the tourist markets for the same stuff.
After Chinatown we headed to the Wat Prayun to feed the turtles. A welcome respite from Bangkok traffic and Chinatown. Then finally to Wat Arun at sunset. Great time to visit there. Finally, back to Jack’s for last minute fittings, and then hotel for dinner and packing.
Day 15 – We started early with Tom, but had to detour to buy a suitcase. Jack’s prices were so good that my husband got quite a few items. Tom took us to a wholesale luggage place so we could get a decent quality bag for a great price. Then, off to Vimanmek Palace, Wat Benchamabophit (marble temple) and finally Golden Mount. We finally bid Tom a fond farewell, and headed to the hotel for a final swim and packing. My husband and kids were flying on the 1:00 AM flight to JFK and I was flying the next day to Chiang Rai to spend a week in Mae Sai with a friend (another story for another day.)
I apologize for the length of this. We had such a great time, and I had no idea I would go on this long. If you made it to the end of my novella, thanks for the effort.
I asked my girls what final thoughts they would like to share with you and we got:
1. Wear socks in Siem Reap – it is dusty
2. Go on the Mekong River tour in Phnom Penh
3. Be sure to bargain even though you feel uncomfortable doing it
4. The tiger temple is the best.
5. Buy jewelry at SJ (I think they already have their eyes on my demise)
6. Go on a klong tour
7. Go to the temples around Angkor Wat in the PM. It is hot, but much less crowded.
Again, thanks to all of you for all your postings, questions, insights and comments. Hope there is something here that is helpful to someone in the future.
Jan 18th, 2008, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for a great report. I felt the same way you felt about Phenom Phen. I was so thrilled when we flew out of there seeing the green rice fields in Vietnam appear. It is a sad city especially when you understand what the people have endured and are still not being treated fairly. From your report although I have been to Thailand and Vietnam 3 times, there are still things I have not seen. I always enjoy reliving with others some of their travels. I am glad you told the details, and it was not too long.
Jan 18th, 2008, 10:23 AM
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great report and appreciated the "lessons learned." \
Could you give some more details about your visit to the Bat Trang ceramics village? I have read other reports that made it sound like it was just a collection of shops and not that interesting. Could you see the artisans at work? is the village interesting on its own? How long did it take from Hanoi?
thanks again for taking the time to help the rest of us!
Could you give some more details about your visit to the Bat Trang ceramics village? I have read other reports that made it sound like it was just a collection of shops and not that interesting. Could you see the artisans at work? is the village interesting on its own? How long did it take from Hanoi?
thanks again for taking the time to help the rest of us!
Jan 18th, 2008, 11:05 AM
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Thanks so much for the report - definitely not too long, I enjoyed every detail. We are headed there in two months with our kids 12 and 15. I have been debating on whether to see about getting Tong or one of her guides to take us around Bangkok (already have her for two days - floating market,tiger temple, "special place"
. Your report has convinced me to see about one of her guides for a day in Bangkok - I find I learn so much from a guide and they really can help you get around without spending time getting lost.
A question about SJ Jewelers (for you and others who have been there). Is it mostly just fine jewelery (precious stones, gold, etc.) or do they have some more local semi-precious crafted things. I guess I'm just looking for something that I couldn't find here in the states - jewlery that looked like in came from SE Asia - does that make sense?
. Your report has convinced me to see about one of her guides for a day in Bangkok - I find I learn so much from a guide and they really can help you get around without spending time getting lost.A question about SJ Jewelers (for you and others who have been there). Is it mostly just fine jewelery (precious stones, gold, etc.) or do they have some more local semi-precious crafted things. I guess I'm just looking for something that I couldn't find here in the states - jewlery that looked like in came from SE Asia - does that make sense?
Jan 18th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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SJ is primarily precious stones: sapphires and rubies in 18 karat gold.
Guenmai reported on a place she likes that sells semi-precious stones in silver. As I remember, it's in the area of the Oriental Hotel, maybe at Oriental Place. You might page her here and ask.
Guenmai reported on a place she likes that sells semi-precious stones in silver. As I remember, it's in the area of the Oriental Hotel, maybe at Oriental Place. You might page her here and ask.
Jan 18th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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Reply to the two previous postings:
Alison: This is where it is really made. We wandered in shops and people would say things to us and we couldn't understand them, so would try to do motions and they couldn't understand. But we were able to see some of the people at work which made buying items that much more fun. There are a number of little factories there. The problem we encountered is that they don't all have shops. The taxi driver took us to one place where we could use credit cards and ship. It was nice to see the countrywide outside of Hanoi, and nice to get away from the horns and traffic. And we are really into ceramics so enjoyed seeing things and purchasing items. We bought two 18 inch high vases for $30 each and one big vase (about 30" for $80. The trip was about 30 minutes each way. The cab ride was $40 round trip, I think. He waited until we were done. There really isn't much of a village, like you might see in a little European town, but we enjoyed seeing what we saw. Please make sure your hotel negotiates with the taxi driver in advance.
JGG: SJ had mostly fine jewelry, like you would see in a nice jewelry store at home. It was the prices that were fabulous. There is lots of hill tribe silver jewelry in markets, but you have to bargain pretty hard. The story I didn't include is when I went north on my own to the Thai border town of Mae Sai. I bought 4 small rubies and mounted them in gold for two sets of earrings for my kids. Total cost was $110 each pair. I thought I had been ripped off for sure because I do not know gemstones. The appraisal at home came in at $1200 each pair, and would have sold in the store for $700-$800. This was the best jewelry find. I don't think you'll find that kind of deal in Bangkok, and for sure not at SJ. SJ did have some semi-precious stuff and some imitation stuff which we didn't look at. But if you are looking for items like that then stick with the markets. We found the best market for other jewelry was the weekend market. I've got to tell you, while my SJ jewelry doesn't look unique to Thailand, the price was, and I will forever treasure the pieces and the prices I paid. Some of the hill tribe silver even in the markets looked like items I see at stores in the US. Good luck!
Alison: This is where it is really made. We wandered in shops and people would say things to us and we couldn't understand them, so would try to do motions and they couldn't understand. But we were able to see some of the people at work which made buying items that much more fun. There are a number of little factories there. The problem we encountered is that they don't all have shops. The taxi driver took us to one place where we could use credit cards and ship. It was nice to see the countrywide outside of Hanoi, and nice to get away from the horns and traffic. And we are really into ceramics so enjoyed seeing things and purchasing items. We bought two 18 inch high vases for $30 each and one big vase (about 30"
for $80. The trip was about 30 minutes each way. The cab ride was $40 round trip, I think. He waited until we were done. There really isn't much of a village, like you might see in a little European town, but we enjoyed seeing what we saw. Please make sure your hotel negotiates with the taxi driver in advance. JGG: SJ had mostly fine jewelry, like you would see in a nice jewelry store at home. It was the prices that were fabulous. There is lots of hill tribe silver jewelry in markets, but you have to bargain pretty hard. The story I didn't include is when I went north on my own to the Thai border town of Mae Sai. I bought 4 small rubies and mounted them in gold for two sets of earrings for my kids. Total cost was $110 each pair. I thought I had been ripped off for sure because I do not know gemstones. The appraisal at home came in at $1200 each pair, and would have sold in the store for $700-$800. This was the best jewelry find. I don't think you'll find that kind of deal in Bangkok, and for sure not at SJ. SJ did have some semi-precious stuff and some imitation stuff which we didn't look at. But if you are looking for items like that then stick with the markets. We found the best market for other jewelry was the weekend market. I've got to tell you, while my SJ jewelry doesn't look unique to Thailand, the price was, and I will forever treasure the pieces and the prices I paid. Some of the hill tribe silver even in the markets looked like items I see at stores in the US. Good luck!
Jan 18th, 2008, 12:04 PM
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Great report. The amount of detail was perfect. It reminded me of how wonderful SEA is. It was really clever to include the lessons learned. We all can benefit.
I noted the December 31 date, so unless this was a year old, prompt report and no penalty.
I noted the December 31 date, so unless this was a year old, prompt report and no penalty.
Jan 18th, 2008, 12:26 PM
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He boughts suits, sport coats, dress shirts, casual pants. Filled at 25" suitcase. He loves them all. Jack's service was excellent. And prices were phenomenal. He would recommend them highly.
Jan 18th, 2008, 02:19 PM
#15
Thanks for the wonderful report. I've been to BKK numerous times but your report gave me some ideas for the next visit. Maybe I'll even get to SJ. Is there a bar nearby I can stash my husband in while I shop for jewelry? 
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