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PeterN_H Jun 8th, 2010 08:32 AM

So there you have it:

'I'm a member of a special clique, so I can breach the guidelines as I like. I'm very important and I log-in a lot, and the place wouldn't be the same without me.

'If I'm not going to be allowed to post in breach of the guidelines I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue.

'I've been breaching the guidelines for years, so I'll carry on doing so.

'I find my own postings and those of my clique funny, so neither I nor they have to stick to the guidelines.

'I sometimes post on-topic, so I can breach the guidelines when I like.' (Try, 'I stick to the speed limit half the time, so I'm entitled to speed the rest of the time.' Very reasonable.)

'Actually I don't care about anyone except my clique, and if you don't like that we breach the guidelines, post pointless one-liners, and post simply to attack, mock, or drive away those we don't like, then go away and post somewhere else.'

Fortunately, the actual owner of the site has rules intended to create a welcoming environment for those who are not part of the clique. Let's hope they actually get enforced, the travel talk stays in the travel sections, and the other painful chit-chat, which the site in fact freely allows (so all this pouting and stamping of feet is neither here nor there) goes to the lounge section where it belongs. Unfortunately personal attacks, petty vendettas, ganging up on newcomers, etc. are still forbidden in the Lounge, too. So unreasonable.

Gpanda Jun 8th, 2010 08:48 AM

Peter N-H-we'll see how the forum evolves.

BTW, I further note that you have provided no explanation of your failure to send me the Hutong Walks information.

DonTopaz Jun 8th, 2010 09:20 AM

I didn't know that PeterNH had a business connection to Fodor's. I'm interested to hear an answer to HT's question.

(I'm also curious as to whether PNH provides info in the book as stuffpumperously as he does here, but that's a question for another day.)

Marija Jun 8th, 2010 09:36 AM

I have not seen any evidence that PeterN_H has any business connection to Fodor's. The list of contributor's to Fodor's China guide (6th edition) does NOT include Mr.NH:
Neither does the fifth edition.

DonTopaz Jun 8th, 2010 10:10 AM

HT? You been giving out bogus info? PNH's web page sez he works for Fodor's competitors, but no mention of Fodor's.

Time to clear the air.

(And a message to PNH, via EB White: Omit unnecessary words.)

Marija Jun 8th, 2010 10:15 AM

To continue, I seethe when misleading information is posted on this very site. Don't we have an obligation to truth? Mr. Dogster clearly indicated that he would arrive in Bangkok on 10 June. What is he doing there now? Or is Mr. Hanuman leading us astray for personal gain?

Kathie Jun 8th, 2010 10:16 AM

Peter, I must admit that I found your last post stunning in its honesty until I got to the later part of the post and realized you weren't confessing your own transgressions.

Let me quote the guidelines: "Please remain civil and refrain from personal attacks on other posters. Sarcasm, no matter its intent, is a tricky thing to interpret online and may be perceived as a personal attack."

lcuy Jun 8th, 2010 10:29 AM

Is it possible that someone is feeling a little left out; maybe after "de-friending" so many who even slightly disagreed with him, that he now has no friends left?

We know that some people might enjoy tightening the rules here; maybe the same people who have a commercial web site with rules like:

" Don't ask any question that has been asked before",
"Don't ask questions that you could find in my guide book",
"Under no circumstances are you to question my opinions or advice", and,
"If I hear you are looking for advice elsewhere, I will ban you from my site"

Anyway, I'm guessing the new rules were intended to clarify the recently increased editing on the more contentious boards like the lounge and Europe, and were only posted here as a notice, not to indicate that we on the Asia board are guilty of anything.

At least, I hope so.

PS I just got back from two weeks with no Fodor's access, and I survived. Questions here got answered without me, and my own questions were answered through other, offline methods. I came back today because I like to participate, not pontificate.

dogster Jun 8th, 2010 10:49 AM

The gentleman Mr. Hanuman is currently entertaining is not the Dogster. He is a fraud. Carol met him too.

It is possible, of course, that WE are the only people in here, each hosting our share of an eternal Fod-Hog Day tea-party, prattling into infinity, desperate to carve our non-identity into blackest cyberspace.

Who am I? Without Fodor's, maybe I don't know... perhaps I AM in Bangkok, after all.

Marija Jun 8th, 2010 11:09 AM

Let me just say I ain't hosting nor attending no "eternal Fod-Hog Day tea-party." I'm just plain procrastinating. I do believe you may be in Bangkok since you haven't made any changes to your website in the last day or so. LOL.

indianapearl Jun 8th, 2010 11:20 AM

How can we compare the new guidelines without a copy of the old guidelines? What's the difference? How can we know we've sinned without knowing the rules?

When I was in graduate school, a faculty member would stand in the back of the seminar room as students tremblingly described various research articles. Inevitably, as the student finished a presentation, the professor more often than not would bellow out, "So what's the big deal about that?"

Smeagol Jun 8th, 2010 11:49 AM

I am wondering what infringement of the rules caused the lounge version of this thread to be closed.Could the editors let us know please so we know to avoid doing that!!

Amy_D Jun 8th, 2010 12:12 PM

Hi everyone,

As Kathie stated above, only Fodor's editors have an icon. Anyone without an icon is posting their own opinion. It's true that similar guidelines existed before, but we have added more detail to more effectively moderate the boards.

Kathie Jun 8th, 2010 12:15 PM

Thanks, Amy.

Amy_D Jun 8th, 2010 01:44 PM

Hi everyone,

I also wanted to clear up point 6 in the revised guidelines “Don’t monopolize the boards.” This guideline is two fold: one, to prevent user from posting under multiple identities and user names, which can be confusing to other members of the community, and two, to allow everyone a chance to be heard.

An Original Poster (OP) shouldn't feel as though they "own" any thread they start. Instead, the OP should be happy to entertain differing viewpoints. By the same token a forum is not a blog---it's a place for two-way conversation, and if one voice begins to drown out all the others we want to be able to gently remind that voice to give others a chance to speak.

I hope that helps to clear things up.

hawaiiantraveler Jun 8th, 2010 01:51 PM

Thanks Amy for clearing everything up!

I do owe Peter NH and apology for my mistaking his Frommers relationship with Fodors, I apologize for the erroneous error.


Marija Jun 8th, 2010 02:08 PM

PeterN_H was the author of the 2003 Frommer's China. He is not listed as a contributor for the 2010 edition.

indianapearl Jun 8th, 2010 02:40 PM

Ah, tea parties. May we all be spared. Prolly Dogster doesn't know what a can of worms he may have opened . . .

Amy, please do let us know the difference between the old guidelines and the new guidelines.

Marija Jun 8th, 2010 02:54 PM

This is Amy's response to the question when it was posed in another forum:

"Thanks to everyone for the constructive feedback.

We have decided not to post both versions of the guidelines to avoid confusion. The biggest revisions to the guidelines are as follows:

-More details added to the "keep it positive" section
-An additional section on monopolizing the boards
-Additional details about trolls "

indianapearl Jun 8th, 2010 03:00 PM

I'd like to see both versions. I'm reasonably intelligent, so promise not to be "confused."

It's hard to know what we might have done wrong. Can we have both versions, please? I started reading this board about a year ago, so don't have "ancient history" with this site.

dogster Jun 8th, 2010 03:44 PM

indiana, there's no reason to think anybody did anything 'wrong'. If you stop to think of it - all the accusations of cliquery and wrongdoing are from <i>Peter</i> thus far. You're assuming that change happens A: for a reason and B: for the public good.

It may be happening for more management control, not to promulate a sudden rash of good manners, it may be happening for more money or far more Machiavellian cause, it may be happening just because there is a new editor and she wants to make her mark... but I scarcely think it is happening because we were naughty in the Asia room.

Kathie Jun 8th, 2010 03:47 PM

indiana, I think the major infractions were on other boards. Not that we can't behave badly when provoked ;-) but if you take a look at the Lounge or the Europe boards, you'll get more of a sense of what the issues have been.

While we have been known to get off-topic here, I don't see that as being as big a probelm as the combativeness seen on some other boards.

Cranachin Jun 8th, 2010 09:13 PM

For what it's worth, I have never met anyone on the Asia forum, and I have not engaged in the banter either (other than trying to add to Gpanda's cheer in the recent long thread).

But I certainly do find the Asia forum fun and interesting precisely BECAUSE of the relationships among so many long-time posters.

Smeagol Jun 8th, 2010 10:02 PM

Thanks for clearing that up, that was probably the one i was most curious about. I guess it's business a usual and see how we get on from there????

Hanuman Jun 8th, 2010 11:19 PM


So Smeagol who do you pick to lift up the World Cup trophy in South Africa?

rhkkmk Jun 9th, 2010 02:15 AM

Taskin S

Gpanda Jun 9th, 2010 02:25 AM

Let's not forget the editors' application of the guidelines will be the critical aspect of the effects on these forums. We will be able to tell by their removal of posts/threads how these guidelines are being implemented. While our opinions (including those with whom we disagree) may be takien into the mix, it is the actual implementation that will inform us.

It is amusing to realize that if any of us are dissatisfied with the application that the proper forum to voice this is the lounge. That means that I won't have to read about it.

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