rethinking itinerary for end of Japan trip, looking for input on 2 nights
 

We are putting the final touches on the itinerary for our 2nd trip to Japan, again traveling during the October/November timeframe as that is the easiest block of time for us to travel. We'll be away for 23 nights total, flying into Osaka (KIX) and home from Tokyo (HND). So we'll be starting in Kyoto, moving to Kyushu, then back to Tokyo for the end of our trip. The original plan is 4 nights in Tokyo, then 2 nights in Hakone (or Kawaguchiko) and arranging for a transfer directly to Haneda on the last morning, for our 11:35 flight home. Now, however, I'm thinking it may be more prudent to do the 2 nights before we end up in Tokyo, just in case there are traffic delays on our last day. Also, it would allow us a leisurely 2nd morning wherever we stay, and the possibility of a last onsen soak before checkout.

Looking for input on whether the change in order makes sense, i.e. affirming what I know is probably the smart move :~) and also where to spend those 2 nights. We're interested in a lovely ryokan with in-room onsen and beautiful scenery and also some light hiking . The Hakone area, with the OpenAir museum are very appealing but we worry that it may be too touristy and things like the ropeway and pirate ship don't hold much interest. Kawaguchiko has the potential for seeing Mt Fuji, but it doesn't seem like a lot else to do. We had also considered Kamakura.....are there other places to consider?

Our original plan to go to Tokyo first involved flying from Fukuoka to Haneda, but is there somewhere else that's an easy flight from Fukuoka, and from which we can get to Tokyo within a couple of hours?

Thanks for any and all feedback.

Going from Kawaguchiko to HND for an 11:30 AM flight was a goofy idea. Going from Hakone to Haneda is doable but I would not do it if I did not have to. There will be traffic (not that I know what it would be like). I imagine that the driver will want to be on the road by 6 AM.

My only experience was leaving the park by bus from near Lake Ashi on the Friday at the start of the Labor Thanksgiving holiday and there was a very long line of cars on the park road heading in. That was in 2001. Leaving on a Sunday morning would probably be problematic, maybe more so during fall colors.

So, yeah, (IIUC your new plan is to go to a ryokan for the 2 nights and then the 4 nights in Tokyo), the new plan is better.

There is a lot to do in Kawaguchiko area. Getting there/back was a bit of a hassle and the place was overrun with foreign tourists. Some clueless people on the crowded bus and long line for the ropeway to the viewpoint. Very scenic including great views of some of the Fujigoko during the ride up This was in the last few years. That was a day trip.

I think you are underestimating Hakone. It is not about the pirate ship - it is about the cruise on a nice scenic lake with mag views of Fujisan, weather permitting. The ropeway goes up to some more great views and a spot with geothermal features, not something you get to see every day. Then I think it is a cog wheel / incline ride down the other side. The rest of the Hakone Loop was, at least, a good ride through some nature.

In either case, K-ko or Hakone, you will be staying in a nice ryokan, quiet, eating well, soaking. Hakone would be easier to get to from Fukuoka. But let's call it by its full name: Fuji-Hakone National Park.

I think the answer to your last question is no. Pretty sure. Maybe I don't quite understand what alternative you are looking for. No really anything better than your new plan. Flight destination from FUK would be Nagoya, maybe a nonstop to Toyama. Really, alternative flight destinations would probably go via Haneda.

mrwunrfl, thanks so much for your thoughtful response, and for putting the Fuji-Hakone National Park area in perspective. before even seeing any responses, I changed our hotel reservations for Tokyo to our shifted dates.......sometimes I need to sit with an itinerary for a while before I can review it with fresh eyes and consider more carefully the logistics.

regarding where to stay in the Fuiji-Hakone area, the ryokans we're looking at are either in the Gora area (Hanaougi, for example) or closer to the lake (Takumino Yado Yoshimatsu).....thoughts on which area is more (or less?) convenient.

lastly, another possibility to consider would be to add those 2 nights to our Kyushu itinerary and stay in Karatsu area for beach walks and maybe a day trip to the Imari/Arita area, before dropping the rental car in Fukuoka. the only wrinkle in this might be reducing our chances to score tickets to the Sumo tournament, as that would place us in Fukuoka over the weekend.

Both of those places look nice. Both are a distance from Odawara which is a/the gateway to the park. You will travel from Haneda via Odawara to get to either lodging. JR Odawara Station is a stop for shinkansen and other trains. Might be an airport bus stop there

For the one on the lake you would take a bus that goes via Hakone-Yumoto Station (Odakyu rail) and on to the lake. Their access info says they will pick you up there between 15:00 and 17:00. Or you could taxi from Odawara or whatever. It looks like it would be an uphill walk from the (pirate ship) port to the ryokan. Or you could taxi from Odawara or whatever.

The one in Gora you would get to using rail. Their access info says pickup at Gora Station or at the Sounzan ropeway somewhere. I don't know what Gora is like. Google sez that it is 5m(1.6 km), 21 min walk, between Gora Station and Hanaougi.

I like the ryokan that is only 5 min walk to the lake. You can leave the ryokan and walk (down) to Moto-Hakone and see the checkpoint and the 400 year old trees on Cedar Avenue - HAKONE | Your Guide to All Things Hakone
and then the boat over the lake, etc.

japan-guide reminds me that the full name would be Fuji-Hakone-Izu National Park
But they also refer to "Lake Ashinoko", but Ashinoko means "Ashi's Lake' (the ko means lake).

These webpages are all linked to each other, but here they are:
Lake Ashinoko (Lake Ashi) - Hakone Travel
Hakone Travel Guide - What to do in Hakone
Tokyo to Hakone: How to get to and around Hakone - Access, Transport and Orientation
At that last link you can see Gora and Moto Hakone on the left of the map. That is where the two ryokan are located.

I saw this and might not be useful, but it had a popup about traffic/transit delays.
Hakone Sightseeing Digital Map powered by STAYNAVI

I will offer a luggage plan if you go to Hakone.

Sure, you could stay in Kyushu. Visit the pottery towns. Multiple hot springs and traditional ryokans in Kyushu. Fly from multiple Kyushu cities nonstop to Haneda. And you could do the Hakone Loop as a day trip from Tokyo. Hopefully, your trip won't be all city.

I don't understand your comment on sumo. The Kyushu Basho is every day of the week, like the other tournaments.

thanks so much for the transportation info and the multiple links. leaning toward the ryokan near the lake also -- there's something about the vibe that appeals to me. none of them are booking for November yet, so I have to set up reminders to check back once the calendar flips to May.

in Kyushu, we'll be spending 3 nights in Nagasaki, 2 nights in Kurokawa Onsen, 2 nights near Takachiho gorge, and 3 nights in Fukuoka. my comment about the Sumo tournament and weekday vs weekend was just that I believe it may be easier to get tickets for a weekday -- this will be the 1st week of the tournament.

Nice itinerary for Kyushu! How do you get to Nagasaki?
Are you driving this? Getting from Kurokawa Onsen to Takachiho by bus would be time consuming but fairly simple.

Lodging in Kurokawa? I have my own and two other fodorites' suggestions.

In Takachiho you definitely want to attend the kagura performance at the shrine. Take a pillow or cushion or something to sit on. Otherwise you will sit on the hard wood floor (without a cushion it was worth the discomfort/pain to me).

The gorge walk is supposed to start at the bridge, I think.

In Fukuoka I like Hakata Ryotei Chikae | Japanese Traditional Restaurant | Hakata Ryotei Chikae | Japanese Traditional Restaurant

You are probably right about the weekend sumo. The first and last days are most popular.