@ hawaiiantraveler

"I think some of us may carry our prejudices with us when we travel and expect others to act the same....."

Wow. I ever imagined one could determine another individual is a bigot when absent from the incidents.

I guess, hawaiiantraveler, that you're a better human that my friends since you seem to have this ability to judge without knowing...

May I just underline that both of them have been working for Doctors without Borders for the last 23 years in areas and in conditions that you could not even imagine?

But still, if it makes you feel better, you are right: they probably are bigots...

It is strange HT, your points have made me look at this from a new perspective. It may have been because it was at the end of the lunch period (?), and so they had reduced staff (?). I feel better about the rejection if it has a rational basis.

This certainly happens in Japan and perhaps elsewhere too. I have experienced this once in Osaka and I know of a Japanese restaurant here in NYC which turns down non-Japanese people, unless you go there with some Japanese regulars.
I've asked Japanese friends why this happens - the explanation I got was:
1) it's more likely in smaller towns than in cities like Tokyo which are more cosmopolitan

2) In smaller towns or with certain restaurants/ryokan/inns, staff is either uncomfortable facing foreigners who don't know Japanese, or are embarrassed that their bathrooms are too "traditional"/old style for use by foreigners; or that certain rules/customs followed within the ryokan may be too strange/onerous for foreigners to follow.

3) Of course, there are always those places that are either prejudiced or have preconceived notions about Americans, or Europeans or Chinese... where foreigners aren't welcome because the business just doesn't want to engage with foreigners. e.g. Americans are frowned on by some places in France, Italy etc. for being too loud or English soccer fans banned from various establishments. Not suggesting that Americans & English hooligans are similar, but the prejudice against them stems from a common stereotypical notion resulting in them becoming unwelcome.

re travelingmad's most recent post:

It's possible that English is not your first language, and that you do not understand the meaning of "prejudices." If so, then I'd encourage you to find out about the word, and I'd encourage you to understand that prejudice and bigotry do not mean the same thing.

If, on the other hand, English is your first language, then I would suggest that you are grossly out of line with your post, and I would encourage you to keep similar posts in that Lounge thing. I would also imagine that most of the participants in this, the Asia forum, would properly see your most recent post as a troll.

@ rizzuto

Prejudices, according to Webster:

a: (1)preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion
c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

So was out so much out of line?

And, to clear things up, English is my fourth language.

I only asked a question to see if what my friends experienced was common in Japan.

Some people answered and I thank them for doing so.

Others tried to hint that my friends had prejudices towards other people/races/countries.

Webster's definition of bigotry:
"a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"

Hence my link between prejudices and bigotry.

Have a nice day anyhow.

Leightravelclub - I had to laugh at your experience in North Wales, I had a similar experience many years ago but my most recent experience of not being welcomed at a restaurant was in Edinburgh where, after waiting for an hour to get some service, I complained and was immediately asked "are you from London?" When I replied that I was, the response from the restarant owner was "well p*** of back there then, we don't want you up here!! "
I wouldn't have minded so much, but he was an Italian, not a Scot!!!

About Japan:
Years ago, I used to travel to Japan to meet with our Japanese vendors. Usually it's Tokyo or Osaka, but occasionally it's to smaller cities.
One of the cities was Matsuyama, where I witnessed service refusal to a European couple.

When I asked my Japanese hosts why, they said the place catered to locals only, and the proprietor and staff did not speak English and did not feel they could provide a "supreme level of service" to non-Japanese speaking diners.
Since I was with them (work colleagues) and they did the ordering, it was OK.

I haven't witnessed this in Tokyo or Osaka restaurants.

Lastly, there was a question about 2 females finding difficulty getting service at restaurants in Uruguay from Femi.

In 2007, I travelled solo in Buenos Aires and took the buquebus ferry to Colonia, Uruguay. I spent the day there and dined at 2 different places. Didn't have a problem as a solo female; in fact the locals were very friendly and helpful.

Femi, which part of Uruguay did this happen to you?

I posed this question to one of the MD's I work with today as he actually worked in Japan for a while. His reply echoes some of the others here who said its not that uncommon, esp. in more rural areas though not exclusive to them. The reasons he gave were twofold; one has to do with a language barrier and the other has to do with resentment towards US military based in Okinawa who have been involved with cases of sexual scandal towards local women. I think the OP posed a legitimate question and deserves dignified responses. She/he wanted to know if this was common and did not judge anyone nor even express any dismay or resentment. Its unfortunate that some here chose to be judgemental themselves while accusing the OP of the same. The pot calling the kettle black. It happens all the time.

Crellston: LOL!

Mistik: We did exactly the same thing, caught the ferry to Colonia on a day trip. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had explained why we could not be served, but most proprieters were pretty brusque. The place we finally ended up at was not very good, but there was no hesitation at all about serving us when we entered.

Femi - Your experience in Colonia was strange. We spent 5 days in Colonia a couple of months ago and there seemed to be plenty of females dining alone or together. Our biggest problem was finding a restaurant that opened before 9.00pm!

I was going to add some more to this thread, but I won't bother now that the dictionary has come out. Too bad.

> but I won't bother now that the dictionary has come out.

Disctionary ?

Anyway I followed this thread with curiosity. Being Japanese, I never really noticed/ never paid attention but thought the possible reasons given by the others are good ones, well.. possible.

Then I have this former Swiss colleague of mine who just returned from his bisiness + pleasure trip of 2 weeks from Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto). His background : had lived in Tokyo for 1 year that is 20 years ago + returned a few times since then. He took a colleague of his. He wrote to me yesterday :

" It was great to see again old friends and old historique sites....and still many places (bar etc) where they say "Japanese" only...my friend was shocked to see this kind of racism. Overall good that I did it (the trip)again."

" bar, etc " it's vague but obviously it happens. I'm not sure if this should be called racism, some sort of ? but it's not like saying "No Whites" "No Blacks", etc but "Japanese Only". I think there is a difference/nuance. If his colleague from Europe was shocked, I would certainly understand. But also this could be a cultural thing.

I can't say from the message what sort of places they have encountered "Japanese Only", bars ? Just a place to drink or bars with "girls"? Also could one of the places been a "soap land" (massage parlor with sexual service)? I can imagine some are "Japanese only". I think it coincided with the start of AIDS. For the Japanese then, AIDS was something coming from outside the country (an idea wrong or right) so many bars/sex service oriented places put the sign "Japanese Only" due to fear of AIDS. But this is a old story of 20(?) years ago. I don't know if this still applies today. Also this has nothing to do with getting refused at restaurants and other non sex oriented places.

There are several Japanese only "bars" in Thailand that will only cater to Japanese.

Definitely not racism but more like nationalism.

As for the "dictionary" reference the OP quoted Websters inre to the definition of prejudice as a response to Rizzutos hack at him/her. Getting back to the subject the idea of nationalism and its boundaries is interesting. My sense of nationalism would not go so far as to permit the exclusion of others from different nationalities to places I patronize. Indeed if I saw that happening I would no longer go there. If the root of this practice is the assumption that a person of a certain race or ethnicity is "better" or "superior" to those from other races or ethnicities then it is prejudice, at least to a degree.

My intention in posting this question was simply to seek knowledgeable persons' opinion on this situation.

I was quite harshly accused of having a bias, then the people who experienced this were accused of having prejudices, which was followed by me being a troll.

Talk about a nice welcome inviting you to post again in this forum...

Well, it looks like the situation encountered by my friends is more common than what I thought initially.

The reasons for refusal of entry seem to range between "not being able to speak other languages than Japanese" to "not being able to provide optimal service" to "some sense of superiority/racism".

If I ever get more detailed info, I will post back with reference.

Thank you to all who have "chipped-in" and provided some insight.

Much appreciated.

I thought it was common knowledge that the "Japanese Only" bars in Japan are owned or run by the Yakuza(Japanese Mafia)and you wouldn't want to go in a place like that anyway.......right? Am I wrong about this?

You can go to the hostess bars which are also run by the Y, and they'll take your money, or play pachinko in their parlors everywhere and they'll take your money but you can't go into their bars and establishments for some reason....Maybe something still lingering from WWII?

I would say to your traveling friends, "Study the history of the places they are visiting before visiting that place".

The Japanese have been "Japanese Only" for as long as there have been Japanese. Did you expect them to change for us?

Aloha!

"Did you expect them to change for us?"

I had not expectation.

I only posted a question.

Hawaiiantraveler: Just let it go. The OP just asked a question which has been vindicated by a good number of respopnses. Try some Aloha! yourself and stop trying to start and win an arguement. Mahalo. Sayonara. :-)

I have been lurking, but really: "The Japanese have been "Japanese Only" for as long as there have been Japanese. Did you expect them to change for us?" is a bit much. Try substituting "white" for "Japanese".

And I'm not sure where all this talk about bars came from - the OP clearly says "restaurant". I've also heard that there are Japanese-only ryokans.

thursdaysd,

I didn't mean to imply that it was right, only that those are the facts.

jacketwatch, lol, I can hear you screaming at the computer screen all the way over here in Hawaii.