Questions about Chengdu/Sichuan and Lhasa
 

Hi all,

I'll be in Chengdu toward the end of Sept for business, and would like to travel around Sichuan and hopefully to Lhasa. I'll have about a week and possibly can stretch it to 10 days. I'm interested in beautiful scenery (day hiking), historical sights, good regional food.

Some questions:
1) Tibet permit. How and where to apply for it? How much it costs?
2) Lhasa--how many days to spend here? Anything close by to visit?
3) 1st week of Oct I think is China's national holiday. Is it a holiday for the entire week? Should we avoid it at all costs? The other option is to travel around mid Sept. Is the weather good in Sichuan and Tibet at that time?
4) Any info on train from Chengdu to Lhasa? How long does it take?
5) Please suggest a good itinerary. I'm interested in going to Jiuzhaigou, Emeishan, the big Buddha, etc.

Lots of questions here. If you could help in any parts, that would be great.

Thanks much!

1 - you should be able to get it in Chengdu, but this is something that changes frequently and unpredictably. You usually need to be part of a group of at least four, but the travel agencies will concoct a group just for purposes of getting the permit.

2 - lots to see in Tibet besides Lhasa. Suggest spending time with a good guidebook.

3 - absolutely avoid National Day and several days either side. Mid September is likely to better for weather in that part of the world as well.

4 - for train info for China see http://seat61.com/China.htm. For Lhasa specifically see http://seat61.com/China.htm#Lhasa%20&%20Tibet You will almost certainly need help to get tickets as it's a popular train starting further east.

5 - you might find my TR helpful See http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/index.html

1. Regarding the Tibet permit. According to the current situation, only the travel agencies can help you apply for it. But you need book for a package tour, no travel angency will only apply for a permit.
2. You can spend 2-3 days exploring Lhasa city. Highlights are Potala Palace, Jokhang temple, Drepung monastery and Sera monastery and other small monasteries which are historical sights.
Around Lhasa, Namtso Lake and Yamdrok Lake are good places for beautiful scenery.

3. Chinese National Holiday will last from Oct.1 to Oct.7. There will be floods of people almost in each scenic spots. Transportation is bad, hotel is hard to reserve and cost is higher. If it is possible, I suggest you to advance your tour in Mid-Sept. The weather at that time is good both at Sichuan and Tibet.

4. Take the train is good, but it will take about 44 hours from Chengdu to Lhasa. From the first 22 hours ride, there is no special scenery. During the last 22 hours, you will enjoy wonderful Tibetean highlights including snow-capped mountains, grassland, beautiful lakes. But considering your time is tight, I suggest you to fly to Tibet. A short flight to Tibet will give you a panorama of the snowy Himalayan ranges.

5. Here I draft a rough itinerary for you.

Day 1 Fly to Jiuzhaigou , explore Huanglong park
Day 2, full day explore Jiuzhaigou vally
Day 3, fly to Chengdu.
Day 4 Leshan big Buddha
Day 5 Emeishan
Day 6 fly to Lhasa
Day 7 Potala Palace, Jokhang temple and Barkhor street
Day 8 Drepung monastery and Sera monastery
Day 9 Namtso Lake or Yamdrok Lake
Day 10 Fly back to Chengdu

First, TTB permits have always been available through agents only, and these agents will only sell you whole package with a guide. CURRENT situation (today) is that Tibet has been closed to foreigners since late June, and won't be opened up until sometime in August.

Second, while the places to visit in that "rough itinerary" is good, the sequence of visits pay no attention to the affect of altitude at all.

- While flying to Jiuzhaigou and then immediately going to Huanglong is a common thing tour companies do, it is stupid and dangerous and uncomfortable. Many who've done so complained about moderate altitude sickness with this arrangement. The sensible thing to do is to visit the lower Jiuzhaigou first before going to Huanglong.

- If one's going to both Jiuzhai/Huanglong and Tibet on the same trip, then it makes sense to put them back-to-back. Not separate them with 2 days in the "low country" when one has already get acclimated to the high altitude, and then lose it.

- After arriving in Lhasa, unless one's already adjusted to the high altitude, DON'T go to the Potala Place the next morning with lots of steps to climb. Go to the other monasteries first, and save Potala for a later time. But putting Yomdrok or Namtso at last is good idea, since those are even higher.

Thanks, all, for the great suggestions! I had never heard of Huanglong until you mentioned it, and from google images it looks spectacular. Any other suggestions like this would be really great.

Also suggestions on where to stay the night and which places would be sufficient for daytrip, etc. would be great too. Heard that Huanglong can be visited as a day trip from Juizhaigou?

It looks like it might be difficult to go to Tibet. Any other scenic/ancient historical sites to see in Sichuan or convenient provinces nearby? How about Yunnan?

Thanks a lot!

Yes, Huanglong is also a great place to visit and a day trip is enough from Jiuzhaigou airport to Huanglong. After several hours exploring, you can drive to Jiuzhaigou for overnight, better choose a hotel near the entrance of Jiuzhaigou vally, such as Xingyu Hotel, Qianhe Hotel or Jiuzhai Resort.

If no plan to Tibet and considering your time, I suggest some highlights in Sichan such as one day Chengdu tour, Dujiangyan Irrigation System and Mt.Qingchen, Dinosaur Museum and Yanjing in Zigong and some highlights in Chongqing such as Dazu Grottoes. Chongqing is located within southeast of Sichuan Province, but since 1997 it has been an independent metropolis under the direct jurisdiction of the Central Government. Below is a rough itinerary for you.

Day 1, Chengdu city sightseeing;
Chengdu Panda Base & Jinsha Museum&Jinli street
Or
Chengdu panda Base&Wenshu manastery&Wide and Narrow Lane
Overnight:Chengdu

Day 2, One day trip to Dujiangyan & Mt. Qingcheng;
Overnight at Chengdu

Day 3, Chengdu / Leshan Grand Buddha / Mt. Emei(suggest overnight at Baoguosi area);
Day 4, Emeishan one day tour; Overnight at Emeishan
Day 5, Drive from Emei to Zigong, visit Dinosaur Museum and yanjing. Overnight at Zigong;
Day 6, Drive from Zigong to Dazu, visit Dazu Grottoes Overnight at Chongqing
Day 7, Chongqing one day tour( People's Assembly Hall, Ci Qi Kou Ancient village,the General Stilwell Museum or etc.);
Day 8, Fly to Jiuzhaigou airport and visit Huanglong, and then drive to Jiuzhaigou(near the entrance);
Day 9 full day explore Jiuzhaigou vally
Day 10 fly to Chengdu

Thanks, Maria, for your suggested itinerary. I will be in Chengdu for 1 week of business meeting, so I'll see Chengdu for sure. I've been to Chongqing for 1 day before, so not keen on going back there. So, with just 1 week to travel outside of Chengdu, I'll do Jiuzhaigou, Huanglong, Emeishan. Anything else that I can fit in?

Thanks!

If no plan to Chongqing,just exclude it. As I suggested in above itinerary, you can visit Dinosaur Museum and Yanjing in Zigong, Dujiangyan Irrigation System & Mt. Qingcheng in Dujiangyan. Rough itinerary as below

Day 1,Chengdu/Dujiangyan/Mt. Qingcheng/Chengdu
Overnight at Chengdu

Day 2, Chengdu / Leshan Grand Buddha / Mt. Emei(suggest overnight at Baoguosi area);
Day 3, Emeishan one day tour; Overnight at Emeishan
Day 4, Emei/Zigong /visit Dinosaur Museum and yanjing/Chengdu
Overnight at Chengdu
Day 5, Fly to Jiuzhaigou airport and visit Huanglong, and then drive to Jiuzhaigou(near the entrance);
Day 6 full day explore Jiuzhaigou vally
Day 7 fly to Chengdu, Chengdu sightseeing if you are not tired. Jinsha Museum&Jinli street or Wenshu manastery&Wide and Narrow Lane

If you still have some doubt, I'm glad to help you. I'm working in Chengdu,let me know if you need any help.

The fact that this poster continues to push for flying into Jiuzhaigou airport and then hit Huanglong immediately should mean something to those following this thread.

Since said poster's email address is windhorsetours it's pretty obvious where she's coming from. Not that the screen name and posts weren't dead giveaways.

Yes, it's been pointed out a number of times that Maria is a travel agent. She's more interested in her agenda than in what you want, JC.

I'm shocked by how expensive admission prices are in China--220RMB ppfor park entrance and another 90 for shuttle bus. That's like $50 per day per person! Even small museums in Chengdu are charging 50+ RMB. Are foreigners charged more than locals?

All admission prices in Sichuan province is the same for foreigners and locals.

JC98 - There are plenty of wealthy Chinese tourists wanting their pictures taken at the famous sites, so they can charge as much as they want. Until they go to a more "fair" lottery system or pre-ordering process, that's also their means of crowd control. Of course, that's a topic for a separate thread, for another time.

Thanks, all, for your pointers. Please critique the following itinerary:

9/17 (Sat evening) arrive in Chengdu. Overnight in Chengdu
9/18 (Sun) Bus or train (which one is better?) to Emei. Go to see Leshan. Overnigt in Emei.
9/19 (Mon) Hike in Emeishan. (Possible to do templestay? Maybe switch itinerary of Sun and Mon and just stay in temple on Sun? We want a private room that's clean with bath. Which temple?)
9/20 (Tue) Train or bus back to Chengdu airport for 10 a.m. or late afternoon flight to Jiuzhaigou. Overnight at entrance of Jiuzhaigou.
9/21 (Wed) Full day in Jiuzhaigou. Bus up, hike down.
9/22 (Thur) Huanglong. Back to airport. Evening flight to Xian.
9/23-9/25 (Fri,Sat,Sun morning) -- Xian (too long?)
9/25 (Sun afternoon) Fly to Chengdu

1 week in Chengdu for conference.

Appreciate any suggestions and details on how to get around--from and to airport, and to destinations, etc.

Thanks!

Also, some specific questions:

1) Where can I find bus or train schedule to/from Emeishan and Chengdu? Which one is faster, more comfortable, safer?

2) Read that Huanglong is similar to Yellowstone. I just went to Yellowstone last year and spent a whole week there exploring all kinds of mineral pools. Given that and how difficult it is to get to Huanglong, do you still think it worth going? I'll be going to Jiuzhaigou for sure, but not certain about addding on Huanglong.

Please advise.

Thanks!

Your itinerary is good,below is some suggestion for you.

9/18 take bus to Emei at Chengdu Xin Nan Men station. Bus is faster,convenient and comfortable.The train ticket is difficult to buy and you may stand all the way on the train.

9/18 you may stay at Baoguoshi temple and there are also many budget hotels there near Baoguoshi

9/19 you can stay at the top of the mountain so that you can see the sunrise the next morning.There are budget hotels there which is cheap, the best hotel on the top is Golden Summit Hotel (3star) The sightseeing bus includes the up and down, even you go down the mountain the next day, the ticket is still valid.If you choose to climb up and down by sightseeing bus, the price is the same.

9/20 bus back to Chengdu airport.You'd better buy the air tickets in advance in this tourism peak season.

9/22 it's up to you whether you visit it or not.

9/23-25 I think 1.5 days or two days are enough for the visit to Terracotta Warriors,Great Mosque, Xi'an City Wall, the big Wild Goose Pagoda,Shanxi Provincial Historic Museum etc.

Thanks, Maria, for your helpful response.

Some more questions:

1) Any monastery you would recommend staying at the summit for sunrise viewing? My main concern is cleanliness, and don't care about fancy amenities. Do they have private room for 2 people? Do I need to make advanced reservation?

2) Panda Breeding Center worth it? I have seen pandas in top notched zoos in the U.S. (San Diego zoo, etc.) and elsewhere. Would this be very different and worth the trip? Is half a day enough to see it including transport out there and back to Chengdu?

3) I have a full spare day in Chengdu. Would you recommend going to the Irrigation Project and possibly with the Taoist Mountain nearby? Or go to Sanxingdui Museum?

Thanks!

2. Yes, it's worth going. Visit as early as possible when the pandas are feeding and before most local tourists arrive. Half a day is enough.

3. I've been to all 3 and all are very worth going. Sanxingdui is in the same direction as Panda Center, and in fact I went to both as part of local Chinese one-day tour.

Thanks, rkkwan!

Appreciate any unique sights, eats, experiences in Chengdu and Xian that you'd recommend.

Question about Tomb of Emperor Jingdi in Xian:

We're thinking of seeing it on the way into Xian from the airport since it's along the route. What is the best way to get there? If we take taxi, how much should it cost and how do they charge for wait time typically? Should we negotiate everything in advance? We probably spend 2 hours there.

Otherwise, if we have the taxi drop us off at the tomb, is it possible and easy to take a public bus to Xian from there?

Thanks!

Definitely agree that the pandas are worth seeing. Do you mean Qingchen Shan? If so, I really enjoyed my visit. For my trip to Chengdu see wilhelmwords.com/rtw2004 - Chilly Chengdu.

OK, I'll make sure make a trip to see the pandas. thursday, could you please resend the link. It didn't work.

Anyone know of a clean, safe, inexpensive hotel near the Chengdu airport? We just one to stay there for 1 short night before our early morning flight out to Jiuzhaigou. Thought it may not be too convenient (and expensive) to stay at the Sheraton for that night.

Thanks

In my recent travels to China, I think the best bet for inexpensive lodging is one of the major business hotel chains, like Home Inns 如家. They don't have one right by the airport, but several of their Chengdu locations are not too far from it. Taxi shouldn't cost more than about 50RMB and not more than half an hour. Room rates are general under 200RMB/night. They are almost comparable to Holiday Inn Express here.

Sichuan is known for its snacks, and if you just wander around the main business district - like the areas around Chunxi Road 春熙路, you'll find the snack carts and stalls all over the place.

JD98 - Sorry, I haven't figured out how to get my iPad to let me cut-and-paste within Safari...

Try http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/index.html

Thanks, rkkwan. I'll look into Home Inn. Hope they speak some English.

thursdaysd, thanks for the link. Wow, looked like you took a train trip of a lifetime! I'd love to spend time browsing other destinations that you went to. Sounds like you had an interesting time in Chengdu, although somewhat wet and cold. How did you go to the Panda Reserve? By public bus?

Thanks!

JC98 - I took a mini-tour arranged by the guesthouse. We left early - you want to get there before the pandas finish breakfast. I liked Chengdu despite the weather, although I suspect it's changed a lot since I was there - a lot of development was going on. Definitely a good place for food.

My (still!) unedited pix from Chengdu are here: http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/R...e-World-2004-5 - password chengdu.

Home Inns don't have a English-language booking page and they don't show on Expedia. Maybe other booking sites may.

Another chain, Motel168, also doesn't have English booking site, but they are bookable through Expedia.

I have stayed at the GreenTree Inn in Chengdu. It's a smaller chain with just one location in Chengdu, near city center. They are both bookable via Expedia and they have their own English page. http://www.998.com/eng/index.aspx It is clean and very decent (apart from the free breakfast). And their rate is about 165RMB or $25.

Or you can just stick with real Holiday Inns. Chengdu is fairly cheap - around US$60.

Could you recommend a good website or agent to book a one-way flight from Chengdu to Jiuzhaigou? I checked ctrip, but the ticket is around $200 USD one way. Would it be less expensive if bought elsewhere?

Thanks

The flight tickets for Chengdu to Jiuzhaigou are difficult to buy, you'd better book them in advance to secure them.You can try to search the flight ticket with departure from 06:10 to 06:50, then you may buy tickets with around 20% off.For your flight tickets from Jiuzhaigou to Xi'an, you'd better buy them in advance too,I found there are only several tickets left on Sept.22.

All the agents get the same fares as ctrip, though maybe with a slightly lower fee. Like MariaTravel says, seats are limited for Jiuzhaigou/Huanglong, and you should expect high fares.

For the website of booking flights,you can also try www.elong.net

Thanks, rkkwan and Maria, for your response. Maria, as an agent, would you be able to get the tickets any cheaper than online?

Thanks

Jc98,Today I found that the flight tickets for Chengdu to Jiuzhaigou are full price even for the departure from 06:10 to 06:50. Most of the economy tickets are only 1 ticket available.Most of the first class tickets for 1970+130 CNY are only 2 tickets available.The rest are 2620+130 CNY.We can provide tickets with 10% off, but clients should go Chengdu-Jiuzhaigou-Chengdu. Sine you will fly to Xi'an from Jiuzhaigou,so sorry I can not help you.

Jc98, if you fail to buy the air tickets, you can consider taking bus to Jiuzhaigou from Chengdu.The price is around 140 CNY per person.

Hi, are there hotels near the Jiuzhaigou airport? If we fly in at 7:30 p.m., we might want to stay put near the airport.
Is the road from the airport to Jiuzhaigou (Sheraton) dangerous to drive at night?

Thanks

You can go to Chuanzhushi for accommodation,it is only several kilometers away.However it's better for you to book your car in advance, most of the cars waiting at the airport are going to pick up clients, usually they charge money by tourists'itinerary.

The distance from airport to Sheraton is about 90 KM. If you have your private car and driver, it is not dangerous at all.

Want to give an update and advice about flight info. All the websites (elong, ctrip, and others) are all wrong about availability of flights to Jiuzhaigou. They were showing everything sold out, but on the actual date of flights, there were tons of seats still available. We were able to fly on the date and time desired (in the morning), and the plane still had many seats available. I think because of the flexible cancellation policy, travel agents probably hog up a chunks of seats and cancel them at the last minute if they can't sell them.