PRIVATE GUIDES IN CHINA
Apr 15th, 2004, 05:32 PM
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PRIVATE GUIDES IN CHINA
Hello,
We intend to go to China next month and we would like to tour it on a private tour (we are three adults my wife, my 24 year old daughter, and myself). As "organized" private tours are outrageously expensive, we were wondering if we could book a "freelance" tour guide + a car to do all the sightseeing.
We intend to visit : Shanghai, Beijing, Xian, Guilin, Hong Kong and Macao...al together for about 22 days.
We will appreciate any other good advise.
THANKS !!!
Miky
We intend to go to China next month and we would like to tour it on a private tour (we are three adults my wife, my 24 year old daughter, and myself). As "organized" private tours are outrageously expensive, we were wondering if we could book a "freelance" tour guide + a car to do all the sightseeing.
We intend to visit : Shanghai, Beijing, Xian, Guilin, Hong Kong and Macao...al together for about 22 days.
We will appreciate any other good advise.
THANKS !!!
Miky
Apr 15th, 2004, 05:44 PM
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"Freelance" tour guides are often not registered, and thus illegal. Prices are still outrageously expensive and guides and drivers who advertise to foreigners on the internet and who occasionally spam this site take foreigners for a ride in more than one sense. In general guides in China know very little even about the cities in which they live, and almost nothing about other places. Bring good reading matter from home if you want truthful history and broader advice on sites, restaurants, etc. than any local guide will give you.
Individual one day tours can be arranged at all of the mainland cities listed, although they are almost all also overpriced, and Guilin in particular is rife with cheating.
Hong Kong and Macau both offer reliable and trustworthy services, details of which can be found on the tourism bureaux sites of both SARs. Hong Kong in particular has some private guides the depth of whose knowledge is almost impossible to plumb.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Individual one day tours can be arranged at all of the mainland cities listed, although they are almost all also overpriced, and Guilin in particular is rife with cheating.
Hong Kong and Macau both offer reliable and trustworthy services, details of which can be found on the tourism bureaux sites of both SARs. Hong Kong in particular has some private guides the depth of whose knowledge is almost impossible to plumb.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Apr 15th, 2004, 09:45 PM
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One of originally three state-owned-and-run agencies whose primary aim is to separate foreigners from as much cash as possible for as little effort as possible. Forced to clean up its act somewhat by the increasing action of market forces, and by increasing competition, and still, because of its national network and overseas offices, the main ground handler for tours you buy overseas, whatever brand name may be tacked on to them. Occasionally useful for one-day tours when time is short, although nothing should be bought at any shop to which the tour takes you, nor should the advice of any guide be taken at face value.
In general, your last choice for travel services. Avoid if at all possible.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
In general, your last choice for travel services. Avoid if at all possible.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Apr 16th, 2004, 07:57 PM
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Hi Peter,
Thank you very much for your interesting comments. As I still want to visit China I would need some more advise. Presently we leave in Singapore
I was wondering whether you could suggest any "reasonable" company here or elsewhere to organize our tour?
Would it be possible to do it on our own? I assume we could book all the Hotels by calling them directly. We can also book our international and
domestic flights from here. What's really seems to be the problem are the local sightseeing tours which we would like to do privetely and not with a large group.
I hope I'm not bothering you TOO much and I really hope we can solve this puzzle.
Many many thanks,
Perl
Thank you very much for your interesting comments. As I still want to visit China I would need some more advise. Presently we leave in Singapore
I was wondering whether you could suggest any "reasonable" company here or elsewhere to organize our tour?
Would it be possible to do it on our own? I assume we could book all the Hotels by calling them directly. We can also book our international and
domestic flights from here. What's really seems to be the problem are the local sightseeing tours which we would like to do privetely and not with a large group.
I hope I'm not bothering you TOO much and I really hope we can solve this puzzle.
Many many thanks,
Perl
Apr 16th, 2004, 11:06 PM
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There's no particular puzzle here.
Treat China like any other tourist destination, book everything in advance, and you can expect to be taken for a ride. Hotels and transportation will all be much more expensive; sometimes 100% more expensive.
Turn up, arrange your hotel rooms directly over the counter, book your domestic travel as you go, just jump in a cab when you want to take a local trip, and you can keep your plans completely flexible and pay local prices, which are deeply discounted in most cases from any published price.
As a compromise, book yourself a couple of nights hotel for your first two nights in China, and then just do everything else as you go from there.
Shanghai, Xi'an, and Beijing all have small minibus tours you can book when there. There are also, in Beijing particularly, Chinese tours on comfortable enough buses. Any decent guide book will give you details.
In Hong Kong and Macao, as already mentioned, it's safe to book a private guide, and the HKTB will give you recommendations (or I can). But few people feel the need in either place.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Treat China like any other tourist destination, book everything in advance, and you can expect to be taken for a ride. Hotels and transportation will all be much more expensive; sometimes 100% more expensive.
Turn up, arrange your hotel rooms directly over the counter, book your domestic travel as you go, just jump in a cab when you want to take a local trip, and you can keep your plans completely flexible and pay local prices, which are deeply discounted in most cases from any published price.
As a compromise, book yourself a couple of nights hotel for your first two nights in China, and then just do everything else as you go from there.
Shanghai, Xi'an, and Beijing all have small minibus tours you can book when there. There are also, in Beijing particularly, Chinese tours on comfortable enough buses. Any decent guide book will give you details.
In Hong Kong and Macao, as already mentioned, it's safe to book a private guide, and the HKTB will give you recommendations (or I can). But few people feel the need in either place.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Apr 19th, 2004, 03:13 PM
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Peter's advice is pretty much accurate. We had our obligatory Beijing duck dinner based on his recomendation and it was great. I understand his misgivings about "freelance" tour guides, however, I can wholeheartedly make the following recommendation for a tour guide in Beijing. A young lady named Jane Yeo. Her email address is- [email protected]
Yes, I did find her on the internet and no, she did not rip us off. Since I didn't pay her in advance, I figured that if she was a bad guide I would cancel the other days if things didn't go well the first day. That was unnecessary. I did pay her at the end of each day though. Also, one of the days we got hit pretty hard by jet lag so we cut our tour short. Jane lowered the price she charged that day without me having to ask.
Tell her what you want to do and she will quote you a price that includes any admission fees, a car and driver, and lunch. She will pick you up and drop you off at your hotel, take you exactly where you want to go, and provide a very informative tour. You can tell that she has worked at learning the history. She will not take you shopping unless you ask to go. She will then bargain for you and obtain a price better than you could get. Tour companies typically will quote a seemingly low price and then make up for it by taking you on tours of jade or silk factories where they get a cut of the sales.
As a food lover, the highlight for me was the lunches. We went to very nice restaurants where Jane asked us what kind of food we liked. She then ordered off of the menu and we ate until we were stuffed. We went in February. My parents went in March and also employed Jane's services and give Jane two thumbs up. They, unlike us, also went to Shanghai. They were quite disappointed in Shanghai and say that they wish they would have just stayed the entire time in Beijing.
Yes, I did find her on the internet and no, she did not rip us off. Since I didn't pay her in advance, I figured that if she was a bad guide I would cancel the other days if things didn't go well the first day. That was unnecessary. I did pay her at the end of each day though. Also, one of the days we got hit pretty hard by jet lag so we cut our tour short. Jane lowered the price she charged that day without me having to ask.
Tell her what you want to do and she will quote you a price that includes any admission fees, a car and driver, and lunch. She will pick you up and drop you off at your hotel, take you exactly where you want to go, and provide a very informative tour. You can tell that she has worked at learning the history. She will not take you shopping unless you ask to go. She will then bargain for you and obtain a price better than you could get. Tour companies typically will quote a seemingly low price and then make up for it by taking you on tours of jade or silk factories where they get a cut of the sales.
As a food lover, the highlight for me was the lunches. We went to very nice restaurants where Jane asked us what kind of food we liked. She then ordered off of the menu and we ate until we were stuffed. We went in February. My parents went in March and also employed Jane's services and give Jane two thumbs up. They, unlike us, also went to Shanghai. They were quite disappointed in Shanghai and say that they wish they would have just stayed the entire time in Beijing.
Apr 19th, 2004, 07:48 PM
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I still counsel caution. It's noticeable that no actual prices are quoted here, but the ones quoted when this lady spammed this site were outrageous (before Fodors deleted them).
Many guides represent themselves as being able to get better prices while simply being a party to getting a cut. It takes no pre-planning as its a common procedure, and the non-Mandarin-speaking foreigner has no idea what's going on. So again, some caution here. Accept the foreigner overhead and pay through the nose for the service by all means if you wish, but never shop.
There may be guides in China who are honest as we understand the word, but I've never yet met one (and I've met a large number). Even if this person would be the first, on statistical grounds alone the advice still stands. The sweeter the guide, the more cautious one should be.
The taxi driver recommended in another current post as reliable not only massively overcharges for simple services but spammed this site incessantly at one time, and disguised himself as others in order to post abuse. Hardly behaviour that deserves support.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Many guides represent themselves as being able to get better prices while simply being a party to getting a cut. It takes no pre-planning as its a common procedure, and the non-Mandarin-speaking foreigner has no idea what's going on. So again, some caution here. Accept the foreigner overhead and pay through the nose for the service by all means if you wish, but never shop.
There may be guides in China who are honest as we understand the word, but I've never yet met one (and I've met a large number). Even if this person would be the first, on statistical grounds alone the advice still stands. The sweeter the guide, the more cautious one should be.
The taxi driver recommended in another current post as reliable not only massively overcharges for simple services but spammed this site incessantly at one time, and disguised himself as others in order to post abuse. Hardly behaviour that deserves support.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Apr 20th, 2004, 12:35 AM
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Hi Peter,
Thanks again for the prompt and "firm" reply. Upon yours and others suggestions we will probably travel on our own with MINIMUM pre-arrangements. Therefore, I need some more advise:
1.People claim that Hotels cost about a half if reservation is made upon arrival in China and not from abroad. How true is it??
2. Are domestic flights MUCH cheaper when booked on the spot ? is it difficult to do it ?? Please advise
Thanks again for the prompt and "firm" reply. Upon yours and others suggestions we will probably travel on our own with MINIMUM pre-arrangements. Therefore, I need some more advise:
1.People claim that Hotels cost about a half if reservation is made upon arrival in China and not from abroad. How true is it??
2. Are domestic flights MUCH cheaper when booked on the spot ? is it difficult to do it ?? Please advise
Apr 20th, 2004, 02:18 AM
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Peter,
Which taxi driver are you referring to that spammed this site?
If it's one of the two I recommended (Robinson Li in Beijing and Clarence Guo in Xian) I would be interested to know. We got great service from both at reasonable prices.
You should realize that it is sometimes worth it to people to pay extra for the convenience of organizing services in advance. It is mean spirited to try to make people feel stupid because they did not get the absolute rock bottom cheapest price. Travel is NOT a competitive sport to see who can do it for less!
That said, I'm sure people on a tight budget appreciate your advice. Just remember that the price of something seldom tells the whole story of whether value was received.
Which taxi driver are you referring to that spammed this site?
If it's one of the two I recommended (Robinson Li in Beijing and Clarence Guo in Xian) I would be interested to know. We got great service from both at reasonable prices.
You should realize that it is sometimes worth it to people to pay extra for the convenience of organizing services in advance. It is mean spirited to try to make people feel stupid because they did not get the absolute rock bottom cheapest price. Travel is NOT a competitive sport to see who can do it for less!
That said, I'm sure people on a tight budget appreciate your advice. Just remember that the price of something seldom tells the whole story of whether value was received.
Apr 20th, 2004, 08:52 AM
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'Half' is a shorthand expression. Yet this year, travelling round China I never once paid more than 70% of the posted price, mostly less, typically around half, and once only 30%. This applies to Chinese-run hotels in particular, who almost never offer anything like the price they are willing to accept to those who book in advance from overseas. The best prices cannot usually be obtained over the phone even from within China, either. Foreign-run hotels with international booking systems are a different matter. Slighly improved prices are available over the counter depending on demand--can be significant outside the major cities, nonetheless.
Usually air ticket prices available overseas through agencies or websites are simply the standard maximum fare, although there are some exceptions, especially for those who read and write Chinese. A discount of 10% is almost automatic on routes where there are many flights by different airlines, but usually you'll do much better than that, especially if booking a few days ahead, when you may get access to seats which are significantly cheaper before they sell out. Discounts of 40% and 50% are perfectly common, especially when booking through an agent rather then with the airline. I've even been sent away from an airline ticket office by a helpful staff member to an agent across the road who sold me the same ticket 40% cheaper. By all means ask the travel agency in your hotel for their best price, and bargain for lower. But in general the best prices are in any agency you happen to pass away from expat-haunted areas an major hotels (although even some agencies in those areas have good prices).
In China, arguably more than anywhere else, you always have to balance convenience and price, and decide what is more important to you. But for those who decide to organise things themselves, savings can be very substantial.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Usually air ticket prices available overseas through agencies or websites are simply the standard maximum fare, although there are some exceptions, especially for those who read and write Chinese. A discount of 10% is almost automatic on routes where there are many flights by different airlines, but usually you'll do much better than that, especially if booking a few days ahead, when you may get access to seats which are significantly cheaper before they sell out. Discounts of 40% and 50% are perfectly common, especially when booking through an agent rather then with the airline. I've even been sent away from an airline ticket office by a helpful staff member to an agent across the road who sold me the same ticket 40% cheaper. By all means ask the travel agency in your hotel for their best price, and bargain for lower. But in general the best prices are in any agency you happen to pass away from expat-haunted areas an major hotels (although even some agencies in those areas have good prices).
In China, arguably more than anywhere else, you always have to balance convenience and price, and decide what is more important to you. But for those who decide to organise things themselves, savings can be very substantial.
Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html
Apr 20th, 2004, 08:23 PM
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<<It's noticeable that no actual prices are quoted here, but the ones quoted when this lady spammed this site were outrageous (before Fodors deleted them).>>
Peter:
If you are refering to the young lady I recommended as the one who spammed this site, I am unaware of that and agree that that is wrong. However, I do stand by my recommendation of her. I am not a rube. I picked the places to shop, she didn't. In fact, she would not let me buy a watch for $6 because she said that it was a piece of junk that wouldn't work the next day.
Yeah, I probably could have saved a few bucks, however she charged the same price as CITS for a private tour. Everything is so cheap in China that a few dollars here or there did not matter. I'm sure you would be appalled to know that I was buying cans of beer in the hotel gift shop for 8 yuan. I know that I could have bought it for a fraction of the cost somewhere else, but it didn't matter to me. Nobody likes being ripped off. A taxi driver, upon being told where we wanted to go, quoted me 30 yuan. I knew that was way too much and I told him to use the meter like he is supposed to. The actual fare, per the meter, was 15 yuan. It was the only time that I felt like someone was trying to screw me. I don't count the shop keepers because I recognize that it's part of the negotiation game.
Although you don't like my recommendation, maybe you can recommend a private tour for Miky as the original post requested.
Peter:
If you are refering to the young lady I recommended as the one who spammed this site, I am unaware of that and agree that that is wrong. However, I do stand by my recommendation of her. I am not a rube. I picked the places to shop, she didn't. In fact, she would not let me buy a watch for $6 because she said that it was a piece of junk that wouldn't work the next day.
Yeah, I probably could have saved a few bucks, however she charged the same price as CITS for a private tour. Everything is so cheap in China that a few dollars here or there did not matter. I'm sure you would be appalled to know that I was buying cans of beer in the hotel gift shop for 8 yuan. I know that I could have bought it for a fraction of the cost somewhere else, but it didn't matter to me. Nobody likes being ripped off. A taxi driver, upon being told where we wanted to go, quoted me 30 yuan. I knew that was way too much and I told him to use the meter like he is supposed to. The actual fare, per the meter, was 15 yuan. It was the only time that I felt like someone was trying to screw me. I don't count the shop keepers because I recognize that it's part of the negotiation game.
Although you don't like my recommendation, maybe you can recommend a private tour for Miky as the original post requested.
Apr 20th, 2004, 09:01 PM
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Lindsey
I used Clarence Guo when I was in Xian 1-1/2 yr ago. He was great. Yes-I paid him $100 for the day, but his service was worth every penny of it. I was with my son who is a vegetarian--Clarnece took us to this restaurant and ordered all these vegetarian dumplings for him!
I'm stopping by Xian again this summer--and I plan to have him pick us up at the airport.
I used Clarence Guo when I was in Xian 1-1/2 yr ago. He was great. Yes-I paid him $100 for the day, but his service was worth every penny of it. I was with my son who is a vegetarian--Clarnece took us to this restaurant and ordered all these vegetarian dumplings for him!
I'm stopping by Xian again this summer--and I plan to have him pick us up at the airport.
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