Please Help First-Timers to India!
 

Greetings Fodorites,

I need your help! My husband is taking our two adult daughters on a father/daughter trip to India and I’ll join them for the second week. This will be the first time in India for all of us. We’re independent travelers and I was a travel agent many years ago in my former life, so part of the fun for me is planning our trips, but I think I may have met my match with India! I’ve done some research, but not enough because work has been very busy. Other than the ghats in Varanasi and the Taj Mahal, there are no particular sights we need or want to see; the goal is to get a taste of India. Here is the itinerary so far. The long haul flights are booked from the US but we haven’t made any other reservations yet. I’d love to hear your thoughts about this itinerary!

March 16 Arrive Mumbai 12:20 a.m.
March 17 Mumbai
March 18 Mumbai
March 19 Mumbai to Varanasi via plane
March 20 Varanasi
March 21 Varanasi to Delhi via plane (I arrive at 11:55 p.m.)
March 22 Delhi
March 23 Delhi
March 24 Delhi to Agra via train
March 25 Agra
March 26 Agra to Jaipur via train
March 27 Jaipur to Delhi via train
March 28 Leave at 3:45 a.m. to return to US

Do they have too much time in Mumbai? Daughter #2 thinks they need that time to adjust, especially with the anticipated tummy issues. Are we trying to cram too much in with Jaipur? Of course, Agra is a must-do. Can we wait until we (i.e., husband and daughters) arrive in Mumbai to ask the hotel concierge to make our train reservations? The Indian train sites are a bit intimidating! We love train travel, but should we hire a driver for any of this rather than go by train (even first class)? Are we pushing it by arriving back in Delhi just hours before our flight leaves for the US? What am I not asking or considering that I should be?

Again, I would appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks in advance!

Ellen

Put Delhi at the end, you do NOT want to risk missing your flight.

I would fly Varanasi to Jaipur, train to Agra, train to Delhi, although you could consider a car and driver from Jaipur to Agra rather than hiring one in Agra to see Fatehpur Sikri and the bird park.

For train info see https://www.seat61.com/India.htm

You MUST book ahead, Indian trains fill up. If you are only taking day trains 2AC is fine, and I prefer it for night trains but you may not. Try cleartrip.com, but read seat61 first.

You should not get stomach problems if you are careful. No street food. No buffets. Do not drink tap water or anything that may contain tap water, including ice. No raw fruit or veg unless you peel it yourself. Some people go vegetarian in India, where much of the population is also vegetarian.

India will be an assault on all your senses, your daughter is sensible.

Yes, you are pushing it to arrive by train just hours before your flight leaves Delhi.

The other thing to know about Delhi is that the air pollution can be so intense there, that it is impossible to enjoy the city. On a bad day, the visibility is extremely limited, and breathing that air is scary. When I was there two years ago in February, on the first day, I was ready to just leave - fortunately a breeze came up the second day and cleared things out enough that I stayed. But - you should read up on the air pollution situation there, and perhaps be prepared to alter your plans if necessary.

Carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer (alcohol based) in your pockets at all times. It's very useful for cleaning hands after touching anything. You can buy pocket-sized containers just about anywhere before you leave. Bring lots of them!

Also - one thing that I figured out while in India was to wear shoes that can slip off and on easily for the temples and mosques - and also that can be left either just outside or inside your hotel room door. You won't want to walk around your room in shoes you've been wearing on the streets.

As far as the water goes - don't drink it or brush your teeth with it or even open your mouth in the shower. thursdaysd is right - vegetarian is a good way to go. My husband did that and never had any problems; I ate fish and chicken, and I did suffer a few times.

India is wonderful - definitely an assault on all your senses!

Though I've spent about 5 months in India on 3 trips, I confess to never having been to Mumbai, Varanasi or Agra. Shocking, I know but none of those has called to me. Which is to suggest there are so many things to see & do in India that I don't believe in the must-see rule.

I know why people go to Agra but I'm not sure why, on a 1st trip, one would necessarily go to Mumbai. Especially for such a big chunk of a short trip. So, why are they going to Mumbai? I assume there's a reason so to answer your question, the reason would help. If the answer is "because it's there," I'd eliminate it altogether, fly on to Varanasi unless there's a particular reason to stay, and allot the time to smaller a place or places, which I found easier & more interesting, closer to the culture I guess I could describe it, than the big cities.

As balance to scdreamer's description of the air in Delhi, I've never had that experience.

@MmePerdu - when were you last in Delhi?

See: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/12/o...elhi.html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/w...pollution.html

There are similar articles for other recent years. If you don't like the NYT try:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41925067

Of course, this likely depends on the time of year. The OP is traveling in March. I have no idea whether it will have cleared by then.

Thank you all so much! This is just the type of information we're looking for and I need to digest it. Thursdaysd, I started to read Seat61 and will get back to it. He has such good information. Please keep the thoughts and advice coming!

Ellen

We have made three trips to India for a total of four months. We have not yet made it to Agra. I know for many it is a must see, but I am with MmePerdu; it hasn't really called to us that much yet. But, on our next trip we will probably add it to the itinerary.

Varanasi, on the other hand, we visited on our first trip and we found it to be quintessential India. It is an example of living, breathing religion as it has been in India for centuries. Take away the plastics and cell phones and one could have a picture of India as it was 500 years ago. I'd love to revisit.

It is going to be hot! Starting about March 15 Rajasthan really heats up. We were in Varanasi almost exactly the same dates you plan to be there, and we headed to the foothills immediately afterward to get away from the heat. That trip we flew home April 2 from Delhi where it was 104.

We much preferred Mumbai to Delhi, and I think the amount of time you will have there (really only two full days) is fine and will be easy to fill with interesting things.

If I have one major criticism of your plans it is that you are filling your entire trip with larger cities and the major places on every tourist itinerary. I am with Mme Perdu in that I think smaller places are really much more interesting and give a much more true flavor of India that what you have planned. Take a look at spending a couple nights in a heritage property in Rajasthan that is owned and run by the former minor royalty. It really gives one a glimpse of the life of the rich in the past.

For us, part of the experience of traveling in India is using the trains because it gives us the opportunity to meet and mingle with Indian citizens. But, I assume you know by now from reading Man in Seat 61 that the standards of Indian trains are much different from other places, even in 1AC (first class). The first time we took one of those trains (and we have only taken 1AC and 2AC), I said to my husband I think I may have taken this train 40 years ago in Europe, and it hasn't had a thorough cleaning since.

You might want to consider one of the highly recommended travel agents in India to organize your trip. Off the top of my head, Castle and Kings, Panorama, and Legends and Palaces are all agencies that Fodorites have used, There ever others as well (and I'm sure someone will add them). An agent can get you train tickets, a car and driver and often, they can get hotels for less than you can.

Hi Ellan,

Though i am a little late but you can do your itinerary something like this:
March 16 Arrive Mumbai 12:20 a.m.
March 17 Mumbai
March 18 Mumbai
March 19 Mumbai to Udaipur via plane
March 20 Udaipur
March 21 Udaipur to Jaipur via train
March 22 Jaipur
March 23 Jaipur to Agra Via train/Car. If you will use car you would be able to visit Fatehpur Sikri & Abhaneri Step well on the way to Jaipur.
March 24 Agra to Varanasi via train
March 25 Varanasi
March 26 Varanasi to Delhi via flight
March 27 Delhi
March 28 Leave at 3:45 a.m. to return to US
Some of the fellow members were talking about the pollution level in Delhi which is absolutely correct. It was pretty bad a few days back & it has started showing some signs of improvement. Usually the level of pollution gets bad in winters but it starts getting better as the temperature starts rising up. So i hope by the time you will be here in Delhi it will be good and you will have amazing time.

Ignore that itinerary. Far too much moving around.

Again, thank you all. You've given me a lot to think about. Kathie, I've come to the conclusion that India is my Achilles heel and that I need to put this trip in the hands of a capable travel agent. I will research the three names you gave me and we'll contact one of them.

This is why Fodors is so valuable; please keep the ideas coming!

Ellen

In my experience, it's a good idea to have in mind what you most want to do and the pace you're comfortable traveling before you begin serious negotiations with an Indian travel agent. They, understandably, have routine itineraries and will plug their clients into one of those before taking uncertain requests seriously. So be certain of what you want, unless the usual suspects will satisfy you.

I prefer a slower pace and unusual accommodations in smaller places and found I needed to be quite firm, but ultimately got what I wanted and was very satisfied (none of the agents others have mentioned but I any recommended will do). I booked things myself toward the end of that first trip and on subsequent trips, which you'll find you can do if you want to return and want to make your own arrangements.

I do have another question...to scdreamer's point about the water...are you including 5 star hotels in that warning? Also, do we have to be careful about which bottled water to buy? I read that it's possible to buy bottled water that appears to be legit but that's actually tap water.

Assume the water isn't safe everywhere, because it probably isn't, no matter how much you're paying for your room.

I suppose it's possible to buy bogus bottled water but where you'll be it's probably unlikely. I've never gotten water-borne illness as far as I know. Illness, yes, but from food, as far as I can tell.

I agree with MmePerdu about the water, unless the hotel specifically states that it has its own filtration system, and even then i'd probably stick with bottled water. Also, don't assume that food is necessarily safe in expensive hotels. If it is meat and it isn't piping hot, don't eat it.

MmePerdu is absolutely right about knowing what you want to do.see before you start negotiating with an Indian travel agent. Basically, when I use an agent, I use them for booking only - i draw up my own itinerary. If you haven't used an agent before, you may find the process a bit intimidating. But remember the agent is working for YOU and wants you to be happy with your trip.

Buffets are risky - even in the best hotels.

And, yes, always assume the water is not safe to ingest. Teeth brushing, in the shower, etc.

I've seen bogus water bottle-filling in films and online, but never observed anything like that in my travels in India.

I have twice used TGS (headquartered in Jaipur although I have never visited Jaipur) as an agency and have been very, very satisfied with them. I also typically never use agencies, preferring to plan everything on my own, and only used Nikhil there to help me figure out logistics of the route.

We basically used the agency to arrange a car and driver for us. Nikhil was also very good in that he'd tell me if a train was a better option than a driver for certain routings. He would book or not book hotels for us; with a few exceptions, I mainly booked my own. He would also book trains and flights if desired; I booked my own once I had the routing and itinerary figured out with his assistance. Both trips we did our own very unusual and quirky itineraries and routes, frequently staying at out of the way, smaller, less-visited places. And, the one time we had a big problem, he saved me at the last minute because of the contacts he has. However, TGS are primarily Rajasthan specialists.

As far as water, I agree with what everyone above has said. We never ever stay at 5* hotels so I wouldn't know about that.

Talking about the water, some of the hotels including the 5 star hotels have RO treated water, but i am not sure that all the hotels will be supplying filtered water to their water tanks from where you get in bathrooms etc. Though the water used by 5 star hotels in most cases is ground water so it is usually safe but for you people if you want to be on a higher level of safety avoid washing tooth brush, gargling etc. For that use bottled water.
Fellow members are correct on the bogus water bottles. In some places hawkers usually the ones selling on the street have those tap water filled bottles. When buying a bottled water either buy from good store of big brands like Kinley, Bisleri or Aquafina or ask your driver / guide to arrange one for you. Also, when you buy water buy in packs, you get a pack which normally have 12 bottles in it.Big packets rules out the possibility of refilling bottles as you can easily see the packing done by a company rather than an individual bottle.
When you talk to some Indian travel agents always give them your itinerary and then see what they are coming up. Travel agents always want to give you the things of your interest so when you ask them that you want to go offbeat, they suggest you accordingly. One thing that you have to keep in mind is that not all the agents have the interest in going offbeat places that's why they suggest normal itineraries. In that case look for other agent.
One thing that you can also do is to book the flight and hotels by yourself and ask the travel agent to provide you only car-driver and guide. When you have all the possible suggestions with you it becomes really easy for you to decide.

Again, thank you for this valuable information and advice. I did write Castle & King after reading reviews and have received a detailed response with a proposed itinerary. I don't have a problem telling them what we want to do but I'll also take their suggestions seriously. There's a lot to consider - more to come as we sort it out. I'll be back with Proposed Itinerary #2!

Another question...again, I need to do some research which I hope to be able to do over the Christmas break but...

Castle & King is recommending that we visit both Udaipur and Jaipur and I think we may have to choose between the two. Which would you choose and why if you were able to visit only one of them?

I do love julies' recommendation: "Take a look at spending a couple nights in a heritage property in Rajasthan that is owned and run by the former minor royalty. It really gives one a glimpse of the life of the rich in the past."

Thanks!

My favorite city in Rajasthan in Jodhpur. I find it quite thrilling and intimate in the old city and the Fort is wonderful, inside and seen from the roofs of many accommodations, lit up at night & seeming to float above the city.

On my first trip there I also stayed a few days at the heritage property Rohet Garh. It's outside the city situated in it's own little fiefdom, a tribal area and wildlife sanctuary because of the beliefs of the people who live there. They do safaris out in the bush and to homes and villages and I cannot recommend it enough. The combination of Jodhpur & Rohet Garh is, I think, unbeatable.

http://houseofrohet.com/rohet_garh/

I have been to Jaipur, Jodhpur and Jaisalmer, but not Udaipur, so I can't compare the two as destinations. However, I would point out that Jaipur is a lot closer to Agra than Udaipur is - four hours by train or car vs. eleven hours (but add some to the car as google is optimistic).

C&K is already displaying the regrettable TA habit of adding places unnecessarily and to the detriment of the overall experience. Don't let them!

There is no comparison between the two. Udaipur is a beautiful city with many lakes. It is having its own class and style. Whereas Jaipur being a state capital is having a feel of a metro city with so many many people around you. Both cities have the city palaces but the one in Udaipur offers better views as it stands on the man made lake pichola and you see a few more palaces (jag mandir and Jag niwas- now Hotel Taj Lake Palace) on the islands.
When people are looking for relax and enjoying the scenic beauty of lakes and hills around they choose udaipur otherwise Jaipur is more convenient being closer to Agra and Delhi.

MmePerdue, Rohet Garh looks idyllic! I love the idea of staying in a heritage property.

thursdaysd, no worries about C&K. This is our trip, we're paying for it, and in the end, we'll let them know what we want to do. We're active travelers, but we don't want to go crazy hopping from place to place! India is like Australia or the US; there's so much to see and in two weeks, you barely scratch the surface. My feeling is that we can always return if we want to.

That's the push and pull with travel, especially at the age my husband and I are. There's always someplace new to visit, but some countries pull you back. Australia was like that for me, I want to spend more time at Jemaa al Fna in Marrakesh, I have withdrawal symptoms if I don't get to France every few years, etc., etc. And then there are the places we still need to visit for the first time!

After the holidays we'll arrange a call with C&K and finalize our plans. More to come...

Wishing everyone on this thread very happy, safe and relaxing holidays wherever in the world you are.

Ellen

India,a synonym for leisure,sets its own pace.Little one can do there but to go with the flow.That said,waste not a minute in taking your time imbibing in infinite leisure in India,the culture,the heritage,the history,the colour,the vibrancy the country has to offer.Its a country where haste makes waste,you can't be in a hurry. 'Coz no one is in a hurry. 1.3 billion folks who call it home are on the move,day and night, they are in no hurry.
The Mantra: Few places.More time.

Ellen,from what I gather, you too seem belong to a breed of leisure traveller.I'll bet my bottom dollar that you'll be back in India sooner or later for more.So no hurry.No worry.
Happy planning & travels.

I think you have got lot of replies already!

Someone mentioned carrying sanitizes all the way to India? Does not make sense. You get all that at any medical shop!

Also, your itinerary should be Mumbai - Varanai - Agra - Jaipur - Delhi.

Why head to Delhi in the middle of your trip? Doesn't make sense.

Also, a suggestion would be to combine Jaipur with either Jodhpur or Udaipur. (Udaipur is a little far though). Just Jaipur won't do justice.

Also, what about train travel within India? If your dates are finalized, then you better get the train tickets booked (either in 1st AC class or 2nd AC class. The bare minimum would be 3rd AC class). Tickets can be booked 4 months in advance. And if you are traveling during summers (when school holidays are on, which means families are out traveling with their kids), tickets be better booked at the earliest possible time. Train tickets can be quite complex in India. Flights are easier. You may even hire a taxi - little more expensive, but much easier and hassle-free. Try booking it either through Uber (they call it Uber Hire in India) or through your hotel's trusted taxi guys (though these ones tend to be much more expensive than Uber ones).

Hi again, Ellen. If you're still willing, plrsdr post tentative itin, in case we Fodorites may have some gentle last min suggestions. I know you're eager to have the plan finished! Looks like only one day in Jaipur? is that still in the works/
Darn, wish I'd seen your original post. As an FYI, the name of the travel company mentioned by Kathie is in fact Indianpanorama. Not sure which, if any, "Panorama"s you found in your enquiries, but it likely was a different one.
For future reference, should you visit India again, there's a particular Indianpanorama travel planner I've used for many years; others here have as well now. His knowledge of India is something I take unashamed, if overdone, advantage of!
Re: Agra, I've been twice. I understand that for some, Agra's reputation as a center of chaos, pushy touts, crowd, and air pollution is a turn-off, or simply not enticing, but in fact, I know no one who's actually seen it, whether they anticipated "meh" or "wow" prior to going, who didnt have a jaw-dropping reaction once there, up close and personal. There's no photo or description that prepares you for its real-time magnificence.
If you haven't already, do before your trip try to see the fantastic Mira Nair film "The Namesake"--not just for its scenes of the Taj Mahal, but for so many other things about India and family and life!

I carry disinfectant wipes and Purel with me all the time ( although I have to admit I do that in the US too). In India, I clean tables in restaurants before my children can get their hands on them every single time. I carry them from here because I don't want to spend time shopping when I am in India, plus I don't trust the potency and expiry dates there. I carry my own bath tissue. I also carry paper bags.
It is advisable for women to wear dark glasses and not make eye contact with people. Learn to maintain your personal space by carrying an umbrella or similar object to prevent people from invading it. There are good videos on the web demonstrating how.
While my trips to India have been mostly uneventful, I remember the couple of times that I let my guard down, I have been sorry.
I still have family in India and visit every 3 years, I always fly within India and never take trains.
Agree with Thursdaysd that Jaipur is closer to Agra, Udaipur is out of the way. I loved the fort in Jaipur.
In Bombay do try visit the Gandhi museum in Mani Bhavan, it was his residence for many years.
http://gandhimuseum.org/site/gandian...l/mani-bhavan/
Mira Nair's movies provide insight into everyday Indian life, I would add Monsoon Wedding and Salaam Bombay to the list.

Hello again, Fodorites,

My work has kept me busy and I haven't visited the forum too much, but we've accomplished quite a bit since I last wrote. Here is our itinerary which is final and can't be changed. I hope you agree that it will give us a taste of India for the time we're there. This began as a father/daughter trip. My husband and two daughters will be there for two weeks and I'll join them the second week.

Fly from the US to Mumbai - Trident Nariman Point - 3 nights
Fly to Udaipur - Fatehgarh palace - 2 nights
Fly to Delhi - Le Meridien - 2 nights (this is where I join them)
Fly to Varanasi - Shiva Ganges View Guest House - 2 nights
Fly to Delhi and will be met at the airport by a driver to drive directly to Agra - Courtyard by Marriott (daughter's Starwood points) - 2 nights
Drive back to Delhi - Le Meridien - 2 days before we leave at 3:45 a.m. for AMS and the States

We're working with the Castle & King travel agency in Delhi. They have been very responsive and helpful (maybe a little too helpful). They are assuming that we'll be with their guide every minute, I think. We're pretty independent travelers, so we're trying to decide when we want to be with a guide and when we want to be on our own. We will be met by a driver/guide at every airport. We met with a colleague of my daughter's who is from India. He said that we don't want to be on our own at all in Delhi. I'd appreciate your thoughts along those lines for the cities we're visiting.

Again, thanks to everyone who has posted on this and the other threads; your wisdom and advice have been so helpful!

Ellen

PS - CaliNurse, I just read your response on the Mumbai thread where you said a guide is a necessity. Even on the ghats in Varanasi? We'll have a private boat experience on the Ganges, but I wasn't sure that we'd need one to explore the ghats.

I have spent sixteen weeks in India, split between two trips, and I managed fine without a guide almost the entire time - I very occasionally hired one at a site.

That said, I traveled in 2004 and 2010. It is my impression that India is less safe than it was: gang rape is on the rise and tourists are not immune to attack . In 2004 I traveled around Delhi on my own without worry, I might feel a little differently today (I am an older female).

Ellen , if you reference the quote in which I said a guide is a "necessity" I'll understand the context. I didn't have a guide in Mumbai, just a taxi driver for the day.

For Mumbai, I booked with Reality Tours, but had to cancel due to time factors. Best Mumbai City Day Tour Packages| Reality Tours and Travel I think someone else on Fodors just recommended them as well.

A good city guide can add a lot to your time in India. Specifically on the Varanasi ghats, I both wandered on my own and later with a local family's daughter (not an official guide). Her knowledge of places, hidden alley shops, people we met (who she, being a native, knew well) "hygienic" places to eat, added to the walk. A reputable local guide can add to your limited time the same way.

Some of my best moments are wandering on my own (including in New Delhi, in contrast to what your daughter's college said); at times I've wished I could lose a gov't site/monument guide (e.g. the Udaipur Palace). Other times, the wealth of what I learned from a knowledgeable local person made the low fee (which in your case will be part of the C and K package) a huge bargain.

Sartoric I hope will see this because in her report she mentioned how much she enjoyed the guide they had for Varanasi. I think he was with Varanasi Walks | Eco-Friendly Tourism I know C ands K will have their own contracted guides (who may be from local agencies) but it's good to have alternatives in the rare case uou might want to find someone else.

What do you mean by a "private boat experience"? Seeing the city from the river, vs seeing it from within, are very different.

Your Varanasi lodging is right on the ghats, so you'll have the full "immersive" experience of nonstop life there! This will be a very different accommodation experience from your other places which are modern chain hotels. But despite having the total vibrant crazy chaotic colorgul Varanasi experience right outside the door, a good guide can add to your time. The local guide will know and even notice things you may not on your own.

So ...do you "need" a guide? No. Do I think a good person in Varanasi (see above for example, and read tripadvisor or similar reviews for it) for a few hours will add greatly to your experience? Yes.

"we'll be with their guide every minute, I think. We're pretty independent travelers, so we're trying to decide when we want to be with a guide and when we want to be on our own." Try not to be too concerned about this...you don't have to decide this now! Remember, IF you feel an omnipresent guide is too much --which is how you describe it--you can politely say, "we need time on our own." However, I think you'll find the reality much less intrusive than you're imagining. Wait 'til you arrive at each place and see how you are doing. As for being met at the airport at each stop, or having the company's personnnel accompany you to the hotels to make sure you're checked in and comfortable ....you will I daresay appreciate this feature.

You are going to have a wonderful, unforgettable time in India!!! I predict you'll want return!

I just re-looked at your itinerary. and noticed your family's Udaipur hotel. It 's another interesting contrast to the more standard-type hotels. India does "Heritage Hotels" like no other country, and your husband and daughters will love being in one. However, it's outside the main area. Are they ok with that? It will be calmer for sure, but won't have those magnificent iconic nighttime illuminated views of the buildings around Lake Pichola...for me, one of the loveliest things about Udaipur. If they want a heritage hotel, there are some closer to the center, from where they can walk and will not need to drive to explore they city. The calm of being in an outlying area may compensate for that, but on a limited two day trip, be sure they won't miss being closer in.

That's good to know, CaliNurse. I've written to C&K for advice. Are there any particular hotels you - or anyone - can suggest? I'll read all your recent posts more thoroughly this weekend and respond.

Thanks much!

Fatehgarh is a nice property but outside of the City of Udaipur. I guess, in a place like Udaipur with all those beautiful lakes, excellent sunsets over the Aravallis, the winding narrow streets of the Old City and the fabulously lit-up City Palace, one should try to stay closer to the locale. To my mind Hotels Fateh Prakash Palace (Lake View rooms); Shiv Niwas Palace (Terrace Suites) are two very good mid-plus range options. Your dear daughters will love the location and the ambiance, typically ethnic & regal. Hotel Laxmi Vilas Palace located on the Fateh Sagar Lake had some very good rooms on the first floor, where I stayed some years previously.
On the economy side, Hotel Jagat Niwas Palace (Lake facing rooms) are quite ethnic, but has small public area. Another option could be the Madri Haveli, in the streets of Old City (Mini suite). You will need to take a call according to your budget.
Happy Travels!

Thanks very much, vp singh. I wrote C&K who gave me some options and will check them as well as yours (some of which they also suggested). I do think they'd be happier in town with a view of the lake.

Ellen