fun4all4

Hi Everyone,

We are a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 teen boys who will be 15 and 18 at time of this trip) looking for assistance in choosing our next big destination for second half of June or July 2009. Our DS1 will be graduating from high school and we'd like to plan a special trip - I am looking early as we have a bunch of FF miles that I'd like to use so I am hoping to have a skeleton plan in time to jump on tickets as soon as FF's open (I believe 330 days in advance). I will also post this on the Latin America Board.

We love a mixture of culture, beautiful scenery, wildlife and nature, history, architecture, good food, and adventure/ active stuff like hiking, diving/snorkeling, kayaking or rafting, etc.... A few museums are ok, but we pick and choose those carefully and would rather "experience" sites than visit too many museums (for example, we took a daytrip to Normandy from Paris and this summer will visit Delphi and the Acropolis in Greece). We tend to like a mixture of city and country/small town or village - for example, on our trip to Italy, we did not visit Rome, Florence Venice as one trip, but spent our trip with a few days hiking in Wengen, Switzerland, then went to Milan for city/museum/churches, then to the northern end of Lake Garda for swimming and exploring small towns before ending in Venice.

We have been to Europe several times (London, Switzerland/Italy, Paris and the Dordogne, and going to Greece this summer), seen a fair amount of the US and been to Belize/Guatemala as well as the Caribbean. Given our interests and the time of year what would you recommend? We will likely have 12-13 nights "on the ground." Right now we are thinking about Peru (Machu Picchu, SV and Cusco, and maybe Arequipa/Colca OR Iquitos), Costa Rica (is weather ok then or just too rainy), or Thailand (Bangkok, Chiang Rai, Koh Samui, Siem Reap - should we consider Thailand at this time of year?). We are also interested in Argentina, but would rather wait till we can go at a different time of year. Other thoughts... Yellowstone/Tetons/Rafting, Hawaii, Spain/Morocco, ???

I hope I have not rambled too much, but I wanted to be specific and help give a picture of our interests/style so you could share your knowledge without wasting your time.

I truly appreciate any input or suggestions you may have to share.
Happy Travels!

rhkkmk

SEA would offer you a good experience....thailand in particular...

you have the advantage there of hving countryside, beaches, and city all close together and easily accessible....

thailand is quite reasonable which also makes it attractive...

it will be hot, but decent weather..

language presents little or no problem...you can easily do thailand on your own totally or with the assistance of limited local guiedes....

rhkkmk

note the trip report found here of the other slightly younger, kids, experience

fun4all4

Thanks, rhkkmk!

Yes, I have been reading jgg's report (in fact, we have done many similar trips and even met when they were in DC visiting!)- we correspond regularly.

As far as weather end of June or first half of July - I have looked at weather charts and it does seem to rain a fair amount... but, does it tend to be overcast with many days of all-day rain or is it more common to get 1-2 hours of late afternoon showers?

Also, I have my eye on 4 destinations, but 3 would probably be better timewise. Still, I can't possibly begin to imagine which of the following we could omit:

BKK (Peninsula, most likely)

Chiang Rai (Anantara Golden Triangle)- elephants!

Siem Reap (don't feel like we need tons of time here, but don't want to miss it either)

Southern Beach (probably Koh Samui at that time of year?) - would love to do some diving and beach relaxing.

With 12-13 nights, any thoughts on how to divide our time?

Right now, DS1's first choice seems to be Thailand and second is Peru. My biggest concerns are weather/time of year, length of flight, and how to work the itinerary so it is not stupid/crazy, but we can still experience our top choices.

Thanks!

fun4all4

BTW, I don't mind hot as long as not constant rain.

I feel comfortable that language would not be a problem - we would hire some private guides for part of the trip and do some on our own.

It does seem like Thailand offers a wide variety of experiences that would suit our interests as well as our desire to try something new and a bit more adventurous without totally roughing it.

acctg

I've been to Thailand and CR, not Peru. With what you are describing for your interests, I'm inclined to say CR. A trip down to the Osa Penninsula will remain one of the highlights of their teenage years for the rest of the lives, I'd venture to say. And doing the zip line will give them big bragging rights when they go back to school. The nature and animal life is incredible.

rhkkmk

i have never been in thailand after june 22, but up till that time we find the day usually works like this....sunny morning, clouding up around noon....showers in late afternoon until maybe 7....clears up after that but it is dark...
an occasional full rain in late PM through into the evening....

Kathie

With just 13 nights on the ground, I'd recommend you stick to 3 locations. It sounds like Bangkok, the Golden Triangle and a beach (yes, Samui is good at that time of the year) would work best for you. While I love Angkor, it takes a full three days just to see the major temples, and there are dozens more. Since it sounds like it is not of enough interest for you to spend at least three days, I'd recommend against it. If your son decides he REALLY wants to see Angkor, cut out another location (the beach is easiest to cut). You are welcome to look at our photos of Angkor (and other places) at www.marlandc.com

fun4all4

Thanks for all the great ideas, thoughts and suggestions so far! Keep 'em coming.

Of course, at this point it is as "clear as mud" since it all sounds so great - it is gonna be hard to choose. Fortunately, we travel a fair amount so I am sure we will eventually go most of these places. Still, whenever we are choosing our next big trip, it takes a while to mull it over, get feedback from others, overanalyze, read guidebooks, etc... till eventually I get comfortable and the choice seems right (if that makes sense). Luckily, it seems we can't go wrong.

rhkkmk- thanks for the extra details on the weather. I am really torn about traveling all that way if it might be too wet, but I know there is just no way to predict it for sure.

Kathie- I think I am the one that really wants to see Angkor - I know the whole family would value a couple of days there, but I am sure that if I throw the choice to my 3 guys they will all say "beach," especially if we could go diving at all. Plus, we tend to like to mix up sightseeing with relaxation and down time - it seems we will have enough with BKK and Northern Thailand. Perhaps we could combine Siem Reap with a future Laos/Vietnam trip?
Assuming we go with the beach thing and need the Gulf side, is Koh Samui the best choice for snorkeling/diving, nice beaches, upscale accommodations and good restaurants/dining? We don't need big nightlife and like there to be other people around, but not huge crowds or tons of fast food places built up.

acctg- whether now or later, CR is a must in the next few years. My only reluctance to choose it for this trip is that it seems to be the most accessible and, thus, the easiest to add at any point that want to get away. On the other, hand, I know we would love it and the convenience and price would make it a more reasonable trip (relatively speaking).

Hmmm, it is good to have choices like this.

Thanks again. Happy Travels!

althom1122

I just responded over on the Latin America board, but I'll add here that I agree with Kathie about limiting your itinerary to three locations. For me, it would be Bangkok, somewhere in the north, and Siem Reap... but I get it that the boys would prefer the beach. Don't try to squeeze in four places, though - I think you'd be too rushed. I bet they'd enjoy a day of mahout training at one of the elephant camps (either Chiang Rai or Lampang).

Cicerone

Much as I love SE Asia (I live here), I have to throw in that I am researching my own trip to Africa for 2009 and have learned that June/July are excellent weather and <i>low</i> season for several places, esp South Africa, like the Sabi Sands camps in S Africa (they are more expensive during school vacations which are of course in the “summer” months of December Jan Feb in the southern hemisphere). It is winter, a bit relative as there is no snow or anything, and while temps can be quite cold at night, if you are dressed for it, should be fine. (And it beats IMO game drives in 95 F heat.) I think Africa would make a fantastic family vacation, and your boys would be old enough to take full advantage of it. Botswana would be shoulder season in June and high season in July, but also offers a lot to see and do from my research. Only caveat is that I understand the beaches of Capetown would not be at their best then, and perhaps penguin viewing there would not be optimal, but otherwise I think you would find the weather very good and wildlife viewing at its best (dry season).

Not the SE Asia is not great, it is. Weather in June and July will be hot and humid (but it pretty much is all the time really). Beaches can be rainy, but if you go to the right areas (i.e. east coast of Thailand or Malaysia, not the west or Bali, see below), you should be fine in those months. Hong Kong is very hot, humid and tends toward rain in those months (its great Oct-Jan). Bali might be a very good choice as it is very dry that time of year. You could rent a house at or near the beach and then explore the island for 2 weeks. Wonderful culture, music, art, dance, painting, sculpture, food, people. Really a magical place. You can whitewater raft, snorkel, dive, windsurf, bike, hike, etc as well.

marmot

I'd like to enter a vote for Indonesia -- Bali, definitely and maybe another destination like Java or North Sulawesi. My son first visited at 18 months and still loves Indonesia some 20+ years later. In his senior year of college he and 3 friends made the grand tour of Java and Bali and their socks were absolutely knocked off!

Your wishlist, &quot;a mixture of culture, beautiful scenery, wildlife and nature, history, architecture, good food, and adventure/ active stuff like hiking, diving/snorkeling, kayaking or rafting, etc&quot; sounds like a description of Bali. The combination of profound natural beauty and rich, fascinating culture, is to me unaparelled (except maybe in Italy). You can get all of the above plus some basic beach culture when you're ready to kickback.
You could include a sidetrip to Central Java, to the culture and arts center of Yogyakarta and the 8th/9th Century monuments of Borobudur and Prambanan. And if you're still energetic climb some volcanoes.

You could dive in North Sulawesi and visit some pristine rain forests. If you have the time, Tanah Toraja, in Central Sulawesi is one of the world's strangest and most interesting cultures.

Weatherwise June/July is a good choice for most of Indonesia.

puttakka

I've been to Costa Rica and Peru. Peru is more &quot;authentic&quot; but Costa Rica is safer and more user-friendly.

fun4all4

Thanks again! Fodorites never let me down - you all are amazing. It is so helpful to think &quot;out loud&quot; with you.

althom - great stuff on both your Thailand and Peru trips. It will be hard, but we will pick no more than 3 locations.

Cicerone - yes, I think the weather thing is what is holding me back on Thailand. I am sure it would be a fabulous trip, but to go all that way... well, I'd like the odds to be with me that it would be a bit more prime time.

South Africa/Botswana is my #1 dream trip! I guess my initial feel was that to do the trip the way I'd really want, it would bust our budget. It seems it would be more than I want to spend, and I'd rather go when it is not quite so cold overnight for those early am game drives. I am truly hoping to do that trip in the next few years!!

Both you and marmot have made Bali sound amazing. I hadn't really considered that at all so perhaps I should look into it a bit. This may expose my ignorance, but are there any safety concerns of which I should be aware?


Again, thanks to all for your input. I will keep pondering (which is half the fun).

Cicerone

I live in Hong Kong, travel to Bali a few times a year (I was last there in Feb), and my personal opinion is that Bali is very safe. Howver, you might want to read the US State Department's website at http://travel.state.go/ and see what they say. They tend to be <i>extremely conservative</i>, so read a few, esp for places where you have been and know well to see if what they saw matches what you know to be true. (You may be quite surprised what you read about Peru! Everyone knows about the bombings in Bali, but few people remember the Shining Path from the 1970s, but they are still out there…. And of course Thailand has its own issues.) Also read the briefs put out by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the UK or Australia which may have different information, see http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/ and http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/. There have not been any incidents in some time in Bali. You can of course be in the wrong place at the wrong time anywhere (a Madrid train station or a London bus for example), so you can’t blow things out of proportion, IMO.

Bali will still have some chance of rain, just a good bit less than Bangkok and northern Thailand, but about the same as the east coast beach areas of Thailand, do take a look at weatherbase.com to make sure you are OK with rain levels in Bali historically, and look at other sites. (I like to compare rain stats to my home to see if I can live with rain levels in a given month, but I course nothing compares to Hong Kong where it friggin’ pours often, so I compare it to where I grew up in the US.) The east coast areas of Thailand like Koh Samui would be fine in summer, IMO. It is Phuket and the west coast beach areas where you get heavy rain in the summer.

Just to whet your appetite for Bali, see some villas at http://www.laksmanavillas.com/villajemma/index.html. I have rented there twice and highly recommend it, although it is not beach front, but walkable to the beach by the Oberoi in moments. See also http://www.vrbo.com/ for lots of other villas in Bali; I have not rented from them in Bali, but have had very good luck with them in other locations. I recently came across this one for another poster on this board which looks divine, Villa Jepun which comes with its own <i>boat and skipper</i>!! http://www.villajepun.com/

Not to turn you off Bali, but do look at prices for SA/Botswana for June and July and you may see big differences from the summer in southern hemisphere. Also read threads on Fodors Africa board about the cold, it does not appear to be that bad. As long as you have hats, gloves, etc I think it is doable. I have done game drives in winter in India (relative, not at cold but certainly nippy) and it is really only the pre-dawn bit that is cold, once the sun is up after the first hour or so, it is wonderful in the sunshine and with layers of clothing. <i>Plus</i>, you get the roaring fireplaces in the lodges and mulled wine, sleeping under big quilts, etc. Also, fewer mosquitoes. From what I understand, you do not do a lot of night game drives even in Africa (you have to be in reserves for that as few national parks permit it, and reserve camps are more expensive), but again if you are dressed for it, I think they are perfectly doable.)

marmot

fun, everyone needs to set his own comfort level with security, but I would say that the risk of being inconvenienced -- or god forbid, harmed -- by a terrorist attack in Indonesia is very, very low. Is it zero, no, but then I wouldn't say that about most places that we would want to visit.

The US State Department and several other Embassies first posted travel warnings for Indonesia ten years ago at a time of political turbulence. The bombings in subsequent years intensified the warnings. Once they are in place it is virtually impossible to get them toned down. I attend regular American community updates and this has been a topic of conversation for years now. The warnings are disproportionate and inconsistent, but no one wants to take the responsibility for lifting them, so they remain.

Indonesia -- both Bali and Jakarta -- has been calm in recent years as the Indonesian government (with considerable help from the U.S. and Australian among others) has seriously cracked down on the extremist groups. Do they still exist? Yes, but I'd have to say the same about just about every other country on this planet.

Thousands of people travel to Bali every month, including many Foreign Service employees. In fact there's a major US-Indonesian Trade Conference there next week.

Again, you have to determine your own comfort level, as no one likes to be looking over their shoulder when they're on holiday, but I would be reasonably assured that Bali -- and the rest of Indonesia -- is safe.

marcyquest

I think Peru is a great choice and it is a lovely time of year there- cold at night but mild and sunny in the day time, perfect for hiking, walking, trekking, and exploring. It is not the right time of year to visit Argentina or Thailand unless you limit your visit to Argentina to the gorgeous northwest, taking trips from Salta. Costa Rica is rainy then and the environment is well protected so it will change less than other regions.

Peru has a lot to offer. I would suggest:
Cusco to the Sacred Valley indluding Pisac market, Olantambo fort, Machu Picchu, Moras and Moray inca sites.
Arequipa to Colca Canyon to see people living much as they did in Inca times and the condors.
Lake Titicaca and you could catch some festivals in July on Taquille Island and around the Uros for incredible music, dancing and costumes.
Flying the Nasca lines with a one day stop in Ica to visit the Ballestas Islands by boat- called the mini-Galapagos- fantastic.

jenryan82

I spent about a month in CR a few years ago and it might be a great place for the teenagers. The rainforests are spectacular, Monteverde has great cloud forests with zip lines and other adventurous options that might really excite them; the beaches on both sides of the country (particularly northwest) are unparallelled for surfing, seeing tropical wildlife (i.e., islands overrun by monkeys and sloths) and understanding the beach culture there; and for a real barebones rainforest adventure, I'd stay at La Selva Biological reserve (nothing luxury there), you make friends with scientists from all over South America, they have a fiesta once a week that everyone attend in the dining hall, and you are literally in the middle of nothing but rain forest.
All that being said, CR is certainly a tourist and ex-pat hot spot and the dollar value isn't what it used to be.

I also vote STRONGLY for doing the Inca Trail through the Sacred Valley in Peru (or staying in Cusco for a few days, and then a night each in Ollantaytambo and Aguas Caliente and taking the train to Macchu Pichu). It's a once-in-a-lifetime trip, do it before it gets too terribly touristy, and I did the trip with my parents in their late 50s, and me and my sister are in our mid 20s. Nothing for the boys to really get in trouble with (I don't know if they'll be bored at nights though...) and there's some great hiking to be had. Amazing trip to somewhere we probably won't get to again.

nmilller1950

bkmrking

boutiqueuniques

CR would be my pick have
been to all the places and
with the teens I think CR
would be great. Stay only
one day in San Jose as it
is dirty and not at all the
CR that is loved by all
Then go to Peace lodge
and stay 2 days they
have a serpentine
butterfly, and pools
that are incredible
and 5 of the most
beautiful waterfalls
on property you will ever see.
We have stayed all over
and it was one of our best
experiences ever!!!
www.peacelodge.com
then got to
. Stay about 5-6 days
in the La Fortuna area
and do the zip lines,rafting,
hiking in the jungle
waterfall repeling, hanging
bridges, atv rides in
the jungle, volcano tours
rapids etc...so much to do
all the above teens would love.
Then go down to Manuel
Antonio Park area
for a few days down to the beach and stay there on the beach. We think they are the best beaches in
all of CR. and then
drive back to San Jose
and Stay there one night.
In San Jose we stay at this
great b&amp;b called Casa Laurin
her name is Jeanette and
she will take super care of you....
We have many properties in CR
and have been all over the
country I think your family
would have a great adventure
there.