Osaka/Kyoto
 

Hello, I am working on an itinerary for Japan in June and have read some of the threads so far on this forum. I would like some advise. We have 6-7 days for Osaka/ Kyoto area and am trying to figure out how many days for each. We will have a large group of 12 and we are really interested in nature, the old vs the modern world. My son is really interested in food, so he wants to spend time in Osaka. We have found that Osaka is less expensive to stay than Kyoto, but would it take away from the Kyoto experience to travel back and forth from Osaka? Any advise is appreciated.

I forgot to add, we were thinking of going to Hiroshima and Nara from Osaka as day trips, but if Kyoto needs more days, than we can skip one or the other.

For some of us, it would be Kyoto 6/7 days, Osaka 0. Believe it or not, there is also food in Kyoto...

It’s just as easy to do day trips to Hiroshima and Nara from Kyoto as it is from Osaka. Take the 7.21 am Hikari Shinkansen from Kyoto and you’ll be in Hiroshima by 9.05. On the way back, you’ll have to change trains at Shin-Osaka anyway so go and visit Dotonbori, the nightlife and restaurant part of Osaka.

Kyoto was Japan’s capital from 794 to 1868 and thus has over a thousand years of history and is the cultural heart of Japan. Osaka is primarily a commercial city and a bit like a mini Tokyo but without Tokyo’s attractions. For some of us, it’s a complete mystery why people go to Osaka.

I would not throw Osaka under the bus. If you are also seeing Tokyo, there is a lot less need to spend your daylight hours in Osaka - it's something of a clone. For temples and shrines, naturally Kyoto and Nara vastly outshine it. And for castles, Himeji (and even Hikone) are real and authentic, while Osaka "Castle" is no castle at all - it's a modern museum with a castle facade (not to mention staff security waiving signs and barking out, "No photos!!" "Stop taking video!!!"). But every place has something to see, of course. Where Osaka does its best is in the evening, such as Dotonbori and Shinsekai. There are some great lights, food and atmosphere - and it's easy to go there after a day of sightseeing in Kyoto. Nor is it as easy to go to Hiroshima from Kyoto as Osaka - at best, if you have a full JR Pass, you can take the bullet train from Kyoto the whole way (though you may need to transfer at Shin-Osaka). But if you don't, and you choose to get the JR West Kansai-Hiroshima Pass et al, you cannot take the bullet train between Kyoto and Osaka with it. The best case is you could take a limited express like the Haruka or Thunderbird (that's what I do), but it still adds about 30-45 minutes each way to make the connection.
I would certainly make time to see Nara though.
And if you haven't considered it yet, you should think about adding in Himeji. The castle and Kokoen Garden are really nice. You could see both in half a day, and add in Mt Shosha to finish it off, or spend half a day in Kobe.

You've already gotten some great advice! I'll just add that your interest in old Japan suggests that you would want to put most, if not all, of your time in Kyoto and Nara. And you can certainly dine very, very well in those cities.

If you haven't already done so, I would urge you to spend a lot of time with japan-guide.com and the JNTO web site.

I'm not the Japan pro that some are -- but IME you should spend all or most of your time in Kyoto or Kyoto/Nara. If there are other things you want to see on Osaka, fine - but don't stay there simply for 'foodie concerns'.

Kyoto had fabulous food. We were so involved and entranced by Kyoto we never even went to either Nara or Osaka. We had 8 nights in Kyoto.

Of course it will. When you exit a lodging in Kyoto then there you are on the street in Kyoto. That is quick (10 seconds) and as simple as could be.

When you exit a lodging in Osaka then you have to make your way to a railway station, get tickets, find your track, wait, board, ride and exit a train, find your way out of the station, and then you are on the street in Kyoto. Maybe an hour for that. Same thing in reverese at the end of the day. Both trips probably around rush hours, with a group of 12? That is not simple.

Don't forget to take everything you need for the day before you leave Osaka. Going back to Osaka for anything pretty much means ending your day in Kyoto.

Also you need to add in the expense for 12 people of going back and forth between Osaka & Kyoto.

Have you checked booking.com?

The Kyoto place looks nice. It says it is Japanese style, and it is, except that it has Western beds.

The Osaka lodging is Japanese style - it has futons, not beds. At least, I didn't see any beds in the photos, only tatami floor and one shot showed futons. There was a photo of stairs which makes me wonder if they have an elevator. I didn't check.

>>There was a photo of stairs which makes me wonder if they have an elevator. I didn't check.<<

I flipped through all the photos and it does include one of elevator doors. Both properties look nice.

janisj, good to know they have an erebeta
MB: okonomiyaki

I loved okonomiyaki. While it seemed to be made wherever we went, Hiroshima has it and I believe their version is what popularized it.

We're all different. For me checking into a hotel for one night would be a pain. I prefer settling into one place and would do a late afternoon trip for the evening in Osaka.

If that works for you -- and it certainly seems that it might -- go for it!

To/from Hiroshima is via Shin-Osaka, which is to the north of Osaka. To/from Nara, the train doesn’t go anywhere near Osaka.

There is a JR rapid train from Osaka to Nara. It takes 50 minutes about 5 min longer than the rapid train from Kyoto to Nara.

Moving to Osaka for two nights makes sense to me especially at that point in the Kyoto part is over and Osaka is being used as a base for Nara and Hiroshima. You have dinner and maybe a few drinks a stroll in Osaka with no time pressure. You just taxi or short subway or whatever to your Osaka lodging. That is better, imo, than going to Osaka station, getting the Kyoto train, and then whatever transport to the Kyoto lodging and head out on another day trip the next day. OP's party gets to dine twice in Osaka, an interest of theirs, at leisure. And probably a break in lodging costs. Not much point in staying in Kyoto if you are visiting sites in other cities.

anjun, how are you going to do it? The problem with relocating is that you will have to move your luggage. So, going Kyoto- Hiroshima- Osaka for your first night in Osaka won't work. I suppose you could take your luggage to Osaka and then visit Nara, and then return to Osaka for the first night. Hiroshima the next day and returning to the Osaka lodging. Or just go from Kyoto to Osaka and stay there. Then Hiroshima / Nara on the next two days.

You could choose to drop Hiroshima or Nara. Traveling with a group of 12 to Hiroshima is more of a production. Nara is one train, straight shot.

And then, after two nights in Osaka where will you be spending the next night?

I will be on SQ11 tomorrow bound for NRT arriving Friday. Nine nights in six places.

Have a great trip, mrwunrfl! Let us know if you discover any special hotels or towns!
I miss getting trip reports!

"I will be on SQ11 tomorrow bound for NRT arriving Friday. Nine nights in six places."
Have a great trip, Mrwunrfl.

If you do go from Kyoto-Nara-Osaka, you could use the luggage delivery service (Takuhaibin) to send your bags ahead. It's about $15 or $20/bag, and is normally next day delivery. You might be able to get same day from kyoto to Osaka. Your hotel can help with this. It's not quite as simple if you are not staying in hotels.

Or you can take your bags with you to Nara and store them in the lockers at the train station for about $5 per locker:

https://www.narastation.com/lockers-...nara-stations/

Most train stations have lockers in Japan. However, they are first come, first serve, so getting there early in the day is a good idea, especially with your big crowd.

One important note if you are going to arrive in Osaka in the evening:
many hotels near the river are on streets where the pedestrians rule the road. We had to hail about 4 taxis before we got one to agree to get us close to, but not at our hotel. Ask your hotel when you book it.

For information on luggage forwarding and luggage storage (including both manned desks at train stations and lockers), see
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2274.html

Thank you for that like to the Nara Station. That is good information.

Not an expert and never been to Osaka or Hiroshima, but have gone to Kyoto with a day trip to Nara. We stayed 4 nights in Kyoto one day to visit Nara and this was not enough time for Kyoto! I am longing to go back to see all that we missed in Kyoto. The day trip to Nara was very easy (only 1/2 hour on the train) and worth it. But, the sights of Kyoto are a bit spread out so time consuming to get around (underground is limited). So, I too vote for maximum time based in Kyoto. You could even split your stay between two types of accomdations and/or locations within the city.