On our own or by tour?
Mar 1st, 2010, 11:16 AM
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On our own or by tour?
Hello,
My husband and I are contemplating a trip to India during the next year. We are in our mid-50s and seasoned travelers and are making our first big trip without our kids, now away at college! In Europe we've always traveled completely on our own; in South America we made all our own travel accomodations but hired drivers and guides in several countries (largely based on Fodor's forum recommendations). I'm feeling a little daunted by this approach in India - too many stories about travel nightmares I guess. We've never traveled by tour before - even small ones - and although we might really appreciate the ease of it, I'm also a bit worried about being herded to touristy locales (we'd go crazy) and being stuck with folks we don't enjoy (also bad)
We're thinking about 3 weeks or so. We'd really appreciate your insights and thoughts.
My husband and I are contemplating a trip to India during the next year. We are in our mid-50s and seasoned travelers and are making our first big trip without our kids, now away at college! In Europe we've always traveled completely on our own; in South America we made all our own travel accomodations but hired drivers and guides in several countries (largely based on Fodor's forum recommendations). I'm feeling a little daunted by this approach in India - too many stories about travel nightmares I guess. We've never traveled by tour before - even small ones - and although we might really appreciate the ease of it, I'm also a bit worried about being herded to touristy locales (we'd go crazy) and being stuck with folks we don't enjoy (also bad)
We're thinking about 3 weeks or so. We'd really appreciate your insights and thoughts.
Mar 1st, 2010, 11:41 AM
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We travel much the same way you do, but things in India are not always signed as you, a westener, would think they should be. We had a car and driver who got us from point A to B with minimal "herding". We did have a it. but it was not etched in stone. If we saw something we wanted to investigate the driver was able to accomodate us. Without him I think a first trip would have been very frustrating at times, ( and we are well seasoned travelers as your selves.) There are many agencies that can put together an individual it. The one we used was Castle and Kings in Delhi.
I am not sure if your budget will allow, but look into the Herritage hotels. These are palaces that have been converted into hotel. We stayed at the Neemrana one night one our way back to Delhi. A wounderful expierence.
I am not sure if your budget will allow, but look into the Herritage hotels. These are palaces that have been converted into hotel. We stayed at the Neemrana one night one our way back to Delhi. A wounderful expierence.
Mar 1st, 2010, 12:37 PM
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There are two current trip reports here on India by regulars who traveled independently (and many more if you do a search)
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ad-bangkok.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...a-jan-2010.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ad-bangkok.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...a-jan-2010.cfm
Mar 1st, 2010, 01:47 PM
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i agree with my wife above....having some one lay out the system, and it is that, the first time is a great help....
maybe do a combo of your own planning and execution and some by an agency...
trying not to cover too much territory is the key really....distances are long, travel is slow and the country is chaotic...
many start with the so called golden traingle trip: delhi, agra and jaipur and perhaps add in one more stop....thats what we did and quite honestly it is enough for a first exposure and those areas are tourist friendly...
for my second trip i will do most of it on my own, hiring a car and driver for the largest portion of the time and using guides/drivers locally in some places....even a place like delhi is almost impossible to do the first time on your own...
pick your dates carefully as the heat is a real contention...december is an ideal month in the delhi area...
maybe do a combo of your own planning and execution and some by an agency...
trying not to cover too much territory is the key really....distances are long, travel is slow and the country is chaotic...
many start with the so called golden traingle trip: delhi, agra and jaipur and perhaps add in one more stop....thats what we did and quite honestly it is enough for a first exposure and those areas are tourist friendly...
for my second trip i will do most of it on my own, hiring a car and driver for the largest portion of the time and using guides/drivers locally in some places....even a place like delhi is almost impossible to do the first time on your own...
pick your dates carefully as the heat is a real contention...december is an ideal month in the delhi area...
Mar 1st, 2010, 08:01 PM
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Our experience and age range is similar to yours (but we don't have kids) and we're planning a 17-day first time trip to Northern India in late November (the 17 days don't include travel time). We've already booked our flights to and from Delhi, and spent Saturday talking to several agents who specialize in India-- I've been reading the board for awhile to try to get as much information about itineraries, etc. From every one I've spoken to who's travelled there and from reading here, we've decided to do a customized tour with driver, but not a guide...but we haven't selected our agency yet. Has anyone on this form used Leisure India and if so, what was your experience? The itinerary they suggested for us seems somewhat more ambitious than we may want.
Mar 1st, 2010, 11:15 PM
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<b>NancyLA</b>, I have never taken a tour, but when I look at the itineraries for Indian tours which people on this board are considering, the main thing which leaps out at me is that they are far too packed and far too rushed. The <i>If-it’s-Tuesday-then-we-must-be-in-Jaipur</i> type of travel imposed by these schedules is not my preferred way to see India, nor any country. So IMO any tour you would consider would have to have an absolutely flawless itinerary. And few do from what I can see. If you could find a tour company which let you set your own schedule but will help you with local transport, local guides when you need them and hotels (which you pick) that would be fine. (You do not, for example, need a guide at the Taj Mahal and I think they detract from the experience.) I believe Castle & King, mentioned above does those for India. Abercrombie & Kent is another company which offers a bespoke tour service. I have not used either so can’t personally recommend them, but they are long-established and seem to have good reputations.
If you like walking or biking tours, look at ATG Oxford Tours which have some wonderful ones. I have walked with them in Europe. They are not like organized tours. Take a look at http://www.atg-oxford.co.uk. Mountain Travel Sobeck might be another good choice, see http://mtsobek.com/, they do camel treks in India (I have used Soebek for things like day rafting trips in Bali.). Another company I am researching for walking trip in the US myself next summer is called Backroads, see http://www.backroads.com/, I found them through the US board where they were recommended; they have some trips in Asia too, including biking trips. You could then add on trips like Agra, Varanasi on your own. Also if you want to include some wildlife viewing, I understand that & Beyond (which used to be CC Africa) has now branched into India and IMO they might be an outfit to consider using for an organized safari portion of the trip. See http://www.andbeyondindia.com/. (I can’t stress enough that an Indian safari is nothing like an African one, but if you have never beeen to Africa, then gong to India first is probably a good way to do it; as after Africa I think a safarai elsewhere might be disappointing.)
Other than that, as you seem to have travelled a lot, I don’t think you need a tour. India is a bit harder travel than some other parts of Asia, which is of course quite different from travelling in Europe, but probably not all that different from South America. (I have only been to major cities in Brazil so really can’t compare, but that would be my impression from that limited experience). English is widely spoken, signage is in English. Not sure what type of “travel nightmares” you are referring to, but I can’t imagine that being on a tour or having a driver would really help you to avoid them. Touts are still going to surround you outside the Taj Mahal even with a tour group. With the internet and mobile phones, it is so easy to make bookings on your own, and air travel with private airlines air travel in India is very smooth indeed. My own particular travel nightmare would actually seem to be quite more likely to occur <i>with </i> a tour, as tours always seem to include at least one stop a day at a “handicraft centre” which invariably consists of one person demonstrating how a rug is made and five people trying to <i>sell</i> you a rug.
As you have three weeks, which is a very nice amount of time, I strongly encourage you to see various parts of India, including the South, many parts of which are not as heavily touristed as the north and are really wonderful. While the “golden triangle” is lovely, it is not all there is to India by a long shot; it is a vast country in terms of culture/religion and geography. You also don’t need to be tied to one driver for your itin. Use the excellent private airlines (Kingfisher and Jet) to go further distances, please use at least one train for the experience of the Indian railways, use public transport like the Metro in Delhi if you can, and use your feet as much as possible. If you simply sit in the back of the car for 3 weeks you will miss a good bit of the experience, IMO.
A very useful website for hotels in India is http://sawdays.co.uk/, click on the book for India. You can also buy the book, <i>Special Places to Stay India</i>, but the website will give you a very long list of hotels to start with. A lot of these hotels are in the budget range, and all seem interesting and several, like the Imperial in Delhi, are outstanding (but it‘s not a budget hotel by any means).
<b>520</b>I looked at the North India tour at http://leisureindiatours.com/rajasth...ndia-tour.html Is that the type of tour you would be considering? That would be a perfect example of the too rushed/too packed itin. There is one day in Delhi! There is one day in Amritsar after all the travel to get there. Chandigarh is actually quite interesting (I may be the only person on this board who has been there), but again you have one day there. Shimla is interesting, again I think your time there is too short. Rikisesh is <i>extremely</i> interesting and an important Hindu pilgrimage site, but it appears the time in Rikisesh is to be spent rafting and not visiting the ashrams and other holy places in the city, which I find a bit odd. You are on the road for an entire day driving to Agra (that is my idea of a travel nightmare indeed) – and then like <i>virtually every tour to India, you spend only one day in Agra</i>. You don’t seem to be going to Fatephur Sikri, which is very interesting. You have 1.5 days in Jaipur, and less than that in Udaipur, given the drive time between the two (and you don’t seem to be stopping anyway along the way like Ranakpur or Kumbhalgarh). While the itin has lots of interesting places on it, they have tried to pack them all in way too short a time. It is also missing places like Varanasi which I think should be on the itin, and of course does not include any of the South, which frankly “tour experts” seem to know very little about, other than Goan beaches and a bit of Kerala. IMO you would want over a month to do this properly. Otherwise, there are things that could be cut quite easily, like Chandigarh (unless you absolutely love Corbusier).
Finally, there is no reason why you need to – or should – fly in and out of Delhi unless you really intend to only stay in that area for the entire trip. If you change your itin to include places in the South, it may be more convenient to go into or out of Mumbai. Also, it may make more sense to fly via Europe or other Asian cities (like Hong Kong or Singapore) to Chennai, Hyderabad, etc if they end up on your itin. In certain seasons, there is a Thai Airways flight from Bangkok to Varanasi which can be a very attractive option. Backtracking to Delhi to fly home can be a waste of time and the worst option in some cases.
If you like walking or biking tours, look at ATG Oxford Tours which have some wonderful ones. I have walked with them in Europe. They are not like organized tours. Take a look at http://www.atg-oxford.co.uk. Mountain Travel Sobeck might be another good choice, see http://mtsobek.com/, they do camel treks in India (I have used Soebek for things like day rafting trips in Bali.). Another company I am researching for walking trip in the US myself next summer is called Backroads, see http://www.backroads.com/, I found them through the US board where they were recommended; they have some trips in Asia too, including biking trips. You could then add on trips like Agra, Varanasi on your own. Also if you want to include some wildlife viewing, I understand that & Beyond (which used to be CC Africa) has now branched into India and IMO they might be an outfit to consider using for an organized safari portion of the trip. See http://www.andbeyondindia.com/. (I can’t stress enough that an Indian safari is nothing like an African one, but if you have never beeen to Africa, then gong to India first is probably a good way to do it; as after Africa I think a safarai elsewhere might be disappointing.)
Other than that, as you seem to have travelled a lot, I don’t think you need a tour. India is a bit harder travel than some other parts of Asia, which is of course quite different from travelling in Europe, but probably not all that different from South America. (I have only been to major cities in Brazil so really can’t compare, but that would be my impression from that limited experience). English is widely spoken, signage is in English. Not sure what type of “travel nightmares” you are referring to, but I can’t imagine that being on a tour or having a driver would really help you to avoid them. Touts are still going to surround you outside the Taj Mahal even with a tour group. With the internet and mobile phones, it is so easy to make bookings on your own, and air travel with private airlines air travel in India is very smooth indeed. My own particular travel nightmare would actually seem to be quite more likely to occur <i>with </i> a tour, as tours always seem to include at least one stop a day at a “handicraft centre” which invariably consists of one person demonstrating how a rug is made and five people trying to <i>sell</i> you a rug.
As you have three weeks, which is a very nice amount of time, I strongly encourage you to see various parts of India, including the South, many parts of which are not as heavily touristed as the north and are really wonderful. While the “golden triangle” is lovely, it is not all there is to India by a long shot; it is a vast country in terms of culture/religion and geography. You also don’t need to be tied to one driver for your itin. Use the excellent private airlines (Kingfisher and Jet) to go further distances, please use at least one train for the experience of the Indian railways, use public transport like the Metro in Delhi if you can, and use your feet as much as possible. If you simply sit in the back of the car for 3 weeks you will miss a good bit of the experience, IMO.
A very useful website for hotels in India is http://sawdays.co.uk/, click on the book for India. You can also buy the book, <i>Special Places to Stay India</i>, but the website will give you a very long list of hotels to start with. A lot of these hotels are in the budget range, and all seem interesting and several, like the Imperial in Delhi, are outstanding (but it‘s not a budget hotel by any means).
<b>520</b>I looked at the North India tour at http://leisureindiatours.com/rajasth...ndia-tour.html Is that the type of tour you would be considering? That would be a perfect example of the too rushed/too packed itin. There is one day in Delhi! There is one day in Amritsar after all the travel to get there. Chandigarh is actually quite interesting (I may be the only person on this board who has been there), but again you have one day there. Shimla is interesting, again I think your time there is too short. Rikisesh is <i>extremely</i> interesting and an important Hindu pilgrimage site, but it appears the time in Rikisesh is to be spent rafting and not visiting the ashrams and other holy places in the city, which I find a bit odd. You are on the road for an entire day driving to Agra (that is my idea of a travel nightmare indeed) – and then like <i>virtually every tour to India, you spend only one day in Agra</i>. You don’t seem to be going to Fatephur Sikri, which is very interesting. You have 1.5 days in Jaipur, and less than that in Udaipur, given the drive time between the two (and you don’t seem to be stopping anyway along the way like Ranakpur or Kumbhalgarh). While the itin has lots of interesting places on it, they have tried to pack them all in way too short a time. It is also missing places like Varanasi which I think should be on the itin, and of course does not include any of the South, which frankly “tour experts” seem to know very little about, other than Goan beaches and a bit of Kerala. IMO you would want over a month to do this properly. Otherwise, there are things that could be cut quite easily, like Chandigarh (unless you absolutely love Corbusier).
Finally, there is no reason why you need to – or should – fly in and out of Delhi unless you really intend to only stay in that area for the entire trip. If you change your itin to include places in the South, it may be more convenient to go into or out of Mumbai. Also, it may make more sense to fly via Europe or other Asian cities (like Hong Kong or Singapore) to Chennai, Hyderabad, etc if they end up on your itin. In certain seasons, there is a Thai Airways flight from Bangkok to Varanasi which can be a very attractive option. Backtracking to Delhi to fly home can be a waste of time and the worst option in some cases.
Mar 2nd, 2010, 01:36 AM
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I traveled in India independently for three weeks, going from the far south to the far north, and was very glad I hadn't taken a tour. Granted, there were a few times of sensory overload, but definitely no nightmares. 
A site that is very helpful as it's India-specific is www.indiamike.com
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...rip-report.cfm
A site that is very helpful as it's India-specific is www.indiamike.comhttp://www.fodors.com/community/asia...rip-report.cfm
Mar 2nd, 2010, 11:00 AM
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My friends went to India a couple of months before I did and were overwhelmed by Delhi, they had already been in Nepal for a month, so went to a local travel agent and booked a car and driver to take them around for a month. They put a tour together for them, which was a lot of the same things that we did on our own. The difference to me was that when I asked her , did you go here, did you see that, where did you stay? She quite often did not know as the agent had put the entire thing together for her. The way that we did, doing the research and bookings ourselves, provided us with so much information prior to our trip that I felt comfortable when we arrived as I felt we already somewhat knew the place and certainly knew where we were staying and wanted to go. I am not saying that one is better than the other, just a different way to travel not being in 'control' (which is what I always like to be)
We would also see tour groups at some of the stops we made and although they certainly had advantages as there was always a tour guide you are not able to dictate how long (or short) you stay at a site as you can when you are independent.
So there are really at least three different ways to travel and I think the best one for you is the one you are most comfortable with.
I would not like to do a tour, but know many others who would not be comfortable doing it independantly as we did either...
We would also see tour groups at some of the stops we made and although they certainly had advantages as there was always a tour guide you are not able to dictate how long (or short) you stay at a site as you can when you are independent.
So there are really at least three different ways to travel and I think the best one for you is the one you are most comfortable with.
I would not like to do a tour, but know many others who would not be comfortable doing it independantly as we did either...
Mar 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM
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Nancy,
We are traveling to India same time of year as you - Nov 2010 for about 16 days. We have contacted a few different agencies in India for help with itinerary as it is our first visit to India. We have never traveled with a tour group - typically we do a mix of using a driver/guide and some days independently. So far the agent Ajay at Yatrik travel has put together the most interesting itinerary. You may want to contact him for guidance.
We are traveling to India same time of year as you - Nov 2010 for about 16 days. We have contacted a few different agencies in India for help with itinerary as it is our first visit to India. We have never traveled with a tour group - typically we do a mix of using a driver/guide and some days independently. So far the agent Ajay at Yatrik travel has put together the most interesting itinerary. You may want to contact him for guidance.
Mar 5th, 2010, 08:34 AM
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We used them and were very pleased:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...o-to-india.cfm
The e-mail I have is: [email protected]
Their website is www.yatrik.com.
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...o-to-india.cfm
The e-mail I have is: [email protected]
Their website is www.yatrik.com.
Mar 5th, 2010, 08:54 AM
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We traveled to India in Nov-Dec of 2009. See my trip report here: http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...a-to-india.cfm.
Like you we had never traveled with a tour or group. I found most of the travel agents I contacted had ho-hum intineraries and wanted us to stay in hotels that were unappealing. With help from Fodorites on this board, I designed my own itinerary, made our own reservations, mostly in heritage hotels, and hired an excellent car and driver, Ramesh Meena (see my trip report for his contact info). Ram is an excellent driver, great company, and very conscientious. He went above and beyond to make sure we had a good trip.
We flew to Delhi, flew to Amritsar, flew through Delhi to Jodhpur, then drove the rest of the way until Khajuraho. Flew back to Delhi from there. Trains are also an option, although we didn't use them on this trip.
I'd recommend that you get a good guidebook, read about the various destinations, look at the maps, make a schedule, then submit it back to us. Those with much more experience than I have can give you feedback. Cicerone is absolutely right about not over scheduling. You can't see it all and India is a three-ring circus going on 24 hours a day. It's wonderful, but exhausting. Give yourself time to absorb it all and, most of all, to enjoy it.
Like you we had never traveled with a tour or group. I found most of the travel agents I contacted had ho-hum intineraries and wanted us to stay in hotels that were unappealing. With help from Fodorites on this board, I designed my own itinerary, made our own reservations, mostly in heritage hotels, and hired an excellent car and driver, Ramesh Meena (see my trip report for his contact info). Ram is an excellent driver, great company, and very conscientious. He went above and beyond to make sure we had a good trip.
We flew to Delhi, flew to Amritsar, flew through Delhi to Jodhpur, then drove the rest of the way until Khajuraho. Flew back to Delhi from there. Trains are also an option, although we didn't use them on this trip.
I'd recommend that you get a good guidebook, read about the various destinations, look at the maps, make a schedule, then submit it back to us. Those with much more experience than I have can give you feedback. Cicerone is absolutely right about not over scheduling. You can't see it all and India is a three-ring circus going on 24 hours a day. It's wonderful, but exhausting. Give yourself time to absorb it all and, most of all, to enjoy it.
Mar 5th, 2010, 08:58 AM
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Here's another trip report that was especially helpful to me. Travelaw had a longer trip than we did, but her advice was so valuable: http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...-travelawg.cfm. Good luck!!
Mar 9th, 2010, 06:39 PM
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Cicerone, thanks for taking the time to investigate the Leisure India site. However,we never planned to take a pre-arranged tour and I never looked at their itinerary for one. (We've done a fair amount of travelling and have always organized our own itinerary and travel, with generally good results.) One of Leisure India's representatives was recently here in the U.S. and outlined a suggested customized tour for us, which looked much too chock-ablock for the kind of travel we generally do, but it was only a draft and he suggested that we look into what we'd like to do and get back to him. Hence the question about whether anyone on the board knew of the agency.
We've already booked, using miles, to fly in and out of Delhi, so changing that isn't an option--and we hadn't planned on trying to get to Mumbai on this trip.
I've trying to talk to those we know who have travelled in India ( some extensively)and read up on it--and read the posts here. What Indianapearl posted sounds like the kind of trip we'd like to try--and I'll read the trip report she recommends.
I apologize for "highjacking" this post and will ask any further questions independently of it from now on. It is helpful to see how others with similar outlooks and travel experiences have gone about forming their itineraries.
We've already booked, using miles, to fly in and out of Delhi, so changing that isn't an option--and we hadn't planned on trying to get to Mumbai on this trip.
I've trying to talk to those we know who have travelled in India ( some extensively)and read up on it--and read the posts here. What Indianapearl posted sounds like the kind of trip we'd like to try--and I'll read the trip report she recommends.
I apologize for "highjacking" this post and will ask any further questions independently of it from now on. It is helpful to see how others with similar outlooks and travel experiences have gone about forming their itineraries.
