North Korea Day Trip
Oct 8th, 2017, 05:07 PM
#21
CaliforniaLady: >> . . . why their website says that Americans are no longer allowed on their trips. <<
I am pretty certain the OP is not American -- why do you think he is??
FYI not everyone posting here is a Yank . . .
I am pretty certain the OP is not American -- why do you think he is??
FYI not everyone posting here is a Yank . . .
Oct 8th, 2017, 05:36 PM
#23
Seems he is English, currently living in China and teaching English. So allowed to visit North Korea, and Cuba, for that matter.
Although: "The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advises against all but essential travel to North Korea (DPRK)."
Although: "The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advises against all but essential travel to North Korea (DPRK)."
Oct 8th, 2017, 05:37 PM
#24
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janisj - I just reread his posts, and you are correct, there is no indication of his nationality. I am still suffering from jet lag, which is my latest excuse. And yes, I know we have people posting from all over the world, which is great. However, my supposition remains the same--the Chi Coms make tons of money on these trips, so it is suspicious that there have been three glowing trip reports in recent weeks. Some of the posters could even be tour guides worried about their livelihood if participation is down, or they could be guests offered discounts in exchange for posting a glowing review. The possibilities are endless, but in the end, no one should visit North Korea, as tourism is a major funding source for the regime. My son told me that there is a huge tourism infrastructure, including sports adventure trips, and golfing vacations.
Oct 8th, 2017, 07:48 PM
#25
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I am indeed English and broke no laws to visit. As stated above I am not in cahoots with YPT or any Chinese tourist agency, I simply thought some people might be interested in what a day trip to North Korea was like, but was obviously very wrong about this. It seems the overall consensus is that it is wrong to visit. I am not lauding myself as some great humanitarian and visited out of morbid curiosity.
I do however think that many of you are being hypocritical. Who here has visited South America, Egypt, Thailand, The Philippines or anywhere else that has a less than exemplary human rights record? it is steadfast and rigid opinions like those displayed here that made me want to visit in the first place. The media is doing a great job. I expect you are all fervently anti-Russia too...
I do however think that many of you are being hypocritical. Who here has visited South America, Egypt, Thailand, The Philippines or anywhere else that has a less than exemplary human rights record? it is steadfast and rigid opinions like those displayed here that made me want to visit in the first place. The media is doing a great job. I expect you are all fervently anti-Russia too...
Oct 9th, 2017, 06:45 AM
#28
>>I am not lauding myself as some great humanitarian . . . <<
Seems you are. >>The money I spent also went into the pockets of people who are just trying to survive (street traders, shopkeepers etc) and that is emphatically a good thing, especially for a country under heavy sanctions. If a North Korean family can eat a decent meal because of my trip then I can sleep easy. <<
It is pretty obvious it didn't/won't.
>>it is steadfast and rigid opinions like those displayed here that made me want to visit in the first place. <<
defensive much???
>>I expect you are all fervently anti-Russia too…<<
jeeze louise . . . talk about mis-representing comments(!)
Seems you are. >>The money I spent also went into the pockets of people who are just trying to survive (street traders, shopkeepers etc) and that is emphatically a good thing, especially for a country under heavy sanctions. If a North Korean family can eat a decent meal because of my trip then I can sleep easy. <<
It is pretty obvious it didn't/won't.
>>it is steadfast and rigid opinions like those displayed here that made me want to visit in the first place. <<
defensive much???
>>I expect you are all fervently anti-Russia too…<<
jeeze louise . . . talk about mis-representing comments(!)
Oct 9th, 2017, 08:55 AM
#29
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I read his link about why its ok to visit NK and he justifies this by citing problems with other countries which seems frankly like something written by a revolutionary wannabe.
What he omits of course is the billions of dollars, pounds, euros etc. in foreign aid that the countries cited by him, the USA, UK, France for example just donate to underdeveloped countries. And of course they take in thousand of refugees yearly as well as grant asylum and emigration. NK certainly does none of this. I do recall that the USA was sending food to NK yrs. ago when their population was beset by a famine.
He also blasts Saudi Arabia for human rights violations which has a grain of truth but also fails to mention that health care and education are free for Saudi citizens. We had a few Saudi residents at the teaching hospital I used to practice at who confirmed this to me though I think they had to return once there training was completed to work for a period of time for the govt. which sounds quite fair to me.
One Saudi man I knew actually had his residency and fellowship paid for.
I hear comments about all of us being anti-Communist, referencing bombing NATO and see his tunnel visioned attitude, unpreparedness to accept different views of NK on a primarily USA travel board and especially coming relatively soon after the Otto Warmbier tragedy and his twisted logic as being quite delusional IMHO. You can't reason with him. He thinks he is 100% right and we are the bad guys 100% wrong. At best he is very naive. At worst, well hope the best.
JM2C.
What he omits of course is the billions of dollars, pounds, euros etc. in foreign aid that the countries cited by him, the USA, UK, France for example just donate to underdeveloped countries. And of course they take in thousand of refugees yearly as well as grant asylum and emigration. NK certainly does none of this. I do recall that the USA was sending food to NK yrs. ago when their population was beset by a famine.
He also blasts Saudi Arabia for human rights violations which has a grain of truth but also fails to mention that health care and education are free for Saudi citizens. We had a few Saudi residents at the teaching hospital I used to practice at who confirmed this to me though I think they had to return once there training was completed to work for a period of time for the govt. which sounds quite fair to me.
One Saudi man I knew actually had his residency and fellowship paid for.
I hear comments about all of us being anti-Communist, referencing bombing NATO and see his tunnel visioned attitude, unpreparedness to accept different views of NK on a primarily USA travel board and especially coming relatively soon after the Otto Warmbier tragedy and his twisted logic as being quite delusional IMHO. You can't reason with him. He thinks he is 100% right and we are the bad guys 100% wrong. At best he is very naive. At worst, well hope the best.
JM2C.
Oct 9th, 2017, 07:00 PM
#30
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I think it was a brave trip. I don't think that the problem in NK and with their ppl is based on the money Steve spent there in few hours, so please go to sleep relaxed on that...
It is fascinating to hear what ur experience was and I kinda understand the feeling of "wanting to see what is going on there".
Well done!
It is fascinating to hear what ur experience was and I kinda understand the feeling of "wanting to see what is going on there".
Well done!
Oct 11th, 2017, 07:27 AM
#31
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Bravery is firemen going into a burning building on a rescue mission.
Bravery is the Israeli raid at Entebbe putting themselves in harms way on foreign soil to rescue hostages.
Bravery is RN Sonny Melton being killed in the LV shooting while using his body to shield his wife.
Bravery is US Army raiders and Filipino guerrillas raiding camp Cabanatun against the odds to rescue 500+ allied POW's who were going to be executed as the Japanese army was pushed out of the Philippines.
Going to NK on an escorted tour is not bravery.
Bravery is the Israeli raid at Entebbe putting themselves in harms way on foreign soil to rescue hostages.
Bravery is RN Sonny Melton being killed in the LV shooting while using his body to shield his wife.
Bravery is US Army raiders and Filipino guerrillas raiding camp Cabanatun against the odds to rescue 500+ allied POW's who were going to be executed as the Japanese army was pushed out of the Philippines.
Going to NK on an escorted tour is not bravery.
.
Oct 12th, 2017, 09:07 PM
#37
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Steve. Thanks for posting.
I remember visiting Myanmar 7 years ago, and made sure that as much of my spending as possible went into the hands of local people. While I can't guarantee I did that all the time, what I can do is guarantee that a lot of tourists didn't seem to care how they spent their money and that it will [probably] have gone straight into the coffers of a despicable Myanmar Government.
When they submit reviews of their gilted visits to Myanmar I rarely see any criticism from people such as the ones who've given you a hard time on this thread....."Do as I say, not as I do", comes to mind.
All the best from a fellow Brit.
I remember visiting Myanmar 7 years ago, and made sure that as much of my spending as possible went into the hands of local people. While I can't guarantee I did that all the time, what I can do is guarantee that a lot of tourists didn't seem to care how they spent their money and that it will [probably] have gone straight into the coffers of a despicable Myanmar Government.
When they submit reviews of their gilted visits to Myanmar I rarely see any criticism from people such as the ones who've given you a hard time on this thread....."Do as I say, not as I do", comes to mind.
All the best from a fellow Brit.
Oct 13th, 2017, 02:09 AM
#38
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The difference here though in terms of money is that for NK you must go per an escorted tour whereas in Myanmar you can go on your own and travel about as you please so you can give money out personally vs. what you spend to the tour company of which the NK govt. get a big hunk I'll bet and you simply can't go about on your own. You are always escorted which means watched.
Yes the Myanmar govt. is repressive however not nearly to the extreme degree NK is. Aung San Soo Kyi could not exist in NK. She would be a victim of their 3 generations of punishment and you would never see her again.
If you are a Brit or a citizen of the USA or many other countries you have at least a consulate their but in NK you are like the country isolated. If something happens you have no recourse. Just search Otto Warmbier.
Also Myanmar doesn't have a despot with nuclear weapons making threats to use them practically every day.
Sorry I don't think the two are comparable at all. Visiting NK would draw more ire as it should given the worst human rights record in the world by far.
Yes the Myanmar govt. is repressive however not nearly to the extreme degree NK is. Aung San Soo Kyi could not exist in NK. She would be a victim of their 3 generations of punishment and you would never see her again.
If you are a Brit or a citizen of the USA or many other countries you have at least a consulate their but in NK you are like the country isolated. If something happens you have no recourse. Just search Otto Warmbier.
Also Myanmar doesn't have a despot with nuclear weapons making threats to use them practically every day.
Sorry I don't think the two are comparable at all. Visiting NK would draw more ire as it should given the worst human rights record in the world by far.
