Kyrgyzstan Uprising
 

I know that people here are much more likely to visit Bangkok than Bishkek, but the uprising in Bishkek has been a lot more violent (and apparently successful). There's a good interview and video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0emLj_9GpM I've been thinking about visiting Central Asia for some time, and if I'd gotten organized last fall could well have been there this spring - now I'm glad I'm not.

Very interesting piece on the last 20 years in Kyr - def. worth skimming if not reading. Key notes near the end:

"The full story of Russian involvement in the April Revolution in Kyrgyzstan is still to be told, but it appears that while the Kremlin backed the forces of change in Kyrgyzstan, Washington stood behind the forces of repression. In the wake of the revolution, Putin congratulated the new leadership; Obama remained silent."

"The triumph of wartime tactics over a broad and consistent strategy of engagement with governments and societies in Central Asia has disillusioned a generation of local reformers and left the United States ill-positioned to compete with the region's rising hegemons, Russia and China."

There is a great op-ed piece in the NY times right now - it is a must read on-line. Very funny and probably accurate.

I know this is old, but was wondering if anyone had been following since, or even been to Kyrgyzstan and seen the state of things since the switch in governments?

I'd been following Roza Otunbayeva's FB page when she'd post in English, but it's mostly in Cyrillic Kyrgyz, which I don't speak.

I've been hopeful, then the violence started in Osh against ethnic Uzbeks. And Russian decline to step in when Otunbayeva requested assistance. Not sure what the right thing there was - the desire to replace the former gov't, but being ill-prepared to manage old tensions in the vacuum. It saddens me, as the reason I follow Kyrgyz news is that my daughter is Kyrgyz, but also 1/2 Uzbek who's family heritage is in Osh. So much was made of how "peacefully integrated" Osh was...

Well, there has been a lot of very recent violence in the south, in Osh and Jalalabad, with up to 100,000 Uzbeks fleeing to Uzbekistan. It seems they have now returned, but it's not clear how voluntary that was - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asi...c/10410397.stm There were also reports that the police and/or military were responsible for some if not much of the violence.

These are good Twitter feeds on the area: @EurasiaNet and @OSCE, plus the BBC is always a good source.

Thanks thursdaysd. The BBC is where I've been getting it (never been on Twitter), but was never sure how complete the story is when there's just the one comprehensive source. Osh is where I've been so concerned about.

With Russia staying out of the picture, and reports of who was involved... coupled with these self-declared autonomous zones. And I'm not clear which came first, the violence against the Uzbeks or their refusal to recognize the new government and creating these zones. Not that that's reason enough to violence, but can imagine Uzbekistan itself becoming directly interested in the outcome.

That whole area is such a jigsaw, thanks to Stalin's divide-and-rule method of drawing boundaries, it's probably a bit surprising there hasn't been more fighting. (And of course, there was the violence in Osh back in 1990 - hadn't heard it was supposed to have been "peacefully integrated!) It's a pity the borders can't just be redrawn, but I can't see that happening!

You don't have to join Twitter to see what someone has posted - just use e.g. twitter.com/@EurasiaNet as the URL.

Yeah, I suppose the who Fergana valley's been a mess since Soviet days.

Just out of curiousity - I've read some of your reports, so I know you've been known to choose places that aren't your Fodors typical trips - but wondering if those traves would have included Kyrgyzstan in the past?

Ohh... ok, I'll check out the twitter link. I've never even been to the site (I have this image of twitter being teens posting the times they arrive and depart the mall)

No, Central Asia is high on my list, and I really thought this was the year I'd get there, but I changed my plans back in the the spring. The trip just wasn't coming together, transport and food on the Pamir Highway seemed pretty difficult, and then there was the uprising - once I dropped Central Asia everything worked out nicely. Since I'm thinking South America for next year, it looks like 2012 at the earliest. [You might like this blog: http://www.501places.com/category/as...gyzstan-asia/]

Twitter can be what you're imagining, but it's actually a lot of different communities - you only see tweets from people you've chosen to follow. If you go to my feed - twitter.com/mytimetotravel - and look at my lists you'll see a lot of travelers. I use TweetDeck, which lets me break up the feed into different columns, so I have some travel columns, and a separate one for politics.

I guess I'll have to give twitter a chance. For a guy who works in tech, I've been surprisingly resistant to the "social networking" sites until recently.

Nice blog. I'll do a bit more reading.

We definitely want to go to central Asia, but we may be 5 years out or so. Besides stablitiy issues, I'd like our daughter to be old enough to understand the connections she has, and she's only 2 now. So in the meantime, we've just taken her along on our own trips. I love reading about your long overlands and really look forward to one that includes central Asia! But I think it'd be a good, but relatively manageable trip for us someday to go overland maybe Kashgar to Bukhara via Bishkek, Osh and Samarkand and take our time about it.

I started twittering during last year's trip. I took a Nokia n800, which was great for 140 characters, but not for a blog post! I'm still resisting Facebook - I don't like their attitude to privacy - but maybe we're headed back to village life.

I've now looked seriously at overland itineraries for Central Asia twice. I've read that China is planning a high speed rail line all the way through, which would certainly make it easier! The trip across China to Kashgar is worth considering, too, although it sounds like Kashgar has undergone such major Hannification it might be worth just sticking to the 'stans.

Yeah, I heard that about Kashgar (the Hannification). I wasn't sure how bad it's gotten.

With the modernization, or turning anything not replaced with modernity into a roped off tourist area, and making everyplace a majority Han, I have mixed feelings about China. At least about bothering to see much of the various parts of the country. Now that we moved to the same side of the world, I thought it might be a good place to go for several trips, but not sure that one trip wouldn't about cover it. I suppose for antiquities... but mostly we do enjoy just moseying around and soaking up local ways.

The rail line thing is kind of cool though.

I'd think the logistics of a full blown overland through Central Asia would be a bear to pull off. Aren't they all sticklers on the visa front? I know Russia required the whole routine of an invitation letter, then sending in your passport for visa. And I thought I'd read that most of the 'stans did too. Not individually a big problem, but I could see that as a pain if you had 4-6 countries to do it with. Plus I thought I read that Turkmenistan had someone shadow you everywhere...

Yes, visas for the 'stans are a serious pain and Turkmenistan is easily the worst, unless you can just zip through on a transit visa. In fact, I had dropped it from the trip I was planning this year. You need to start the visa hunt a few months ahead of time, probably with help from an in-country agency. Or, if you have the money, you could work with MIR in the US.

Originally I looked at crossing west to east by train for my 2004 RTW, but there was one leg I couldn't rely on. This time I was going to fly into Astana and use a mix of trains, buses, hired jeeps and the odd flight.

You know, if I went to the trouble to get to and into Turkmenistan, I don't know that I could live with myself if I just zipped through. I've seen pictures of Merv....

If we go, I think we'll probably stick with two (three tops) 'stans at a time... we're pokey anyway.

Look forward to when you get there!

Interesting if inconclusive piece in the NYT on the violence: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/wo...gyzstan&st=cse

thursdaysd, thanks for coming back to share that article. I hadn't seen that yet this morning. Does seem a lot of finger pointing, but some of the interim gov'ts claims seem hard to swallow. I suspect there's been a tinderbox of feelings in Osh that a heavy hand was keeping from igniting. Hopefully they get a cap on it before any major re-occurrence by getting the military and police under control. The official conspiracy theories aren't going to help the minorities feel any more secure though, I'd think.

This quote from Lonely Planet raises more questions: "Kyrgyzstan's mountains effectively isolate the country's northern and southern population centres from one another, especially in winter. The geographically isolated southern provinces of Osh and Jalal-Abad have more in common with the conservative, Islamised Fergana valley than with the industrialized, Russified north." And that's without the Kyrgyz-Uzbek split.

I'd heard that Osh has quite a different character than the northern areas. I hadn't read as much about Jalal-Abad. Osh just had the personal connection. The more I read, and the more I see, the more how some of my own family's circumstances came into being becomes clear. Maybe not in a happy way, but it opens one's eyes.

Clifton - The current version of BBC World Newshour - http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/newshour - has two very interesting pieces on Kyrgyzstan and the referendum. I must say, I'm glad I changed my travel plans - Osh was on my itinerary.

Your family connection - that's your daughter?

Thanks for the additional links Thursdays. I had seen one, but not the other.

Yes, that's her. Light of our lives and all that. We've always felt very strongly about keeping her aware and informed about her background. And hoped to take her to visit Kygyzstan when she's old enough to understand why we're visiting. Much of what's happening now, in conjunction with the personal information we already had, is beginning to explain how she came to be born so far away in Moscow and probably why. She is half Kyrgyz, half Uzbek and the only address ever given was a village name on the outskirts of Osh.