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Kyoto: hotel choices, guides,day trip to Nara

Kyoto: hotel choices, guides,day trip to Nara

Old Nov 13th, 2014, 06:45 AM
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Kyoto: hotel choices, guides,day trip to Nara

Hi, We are a family of 4, with 2 kids, ages 19 and 23. This is likely the last "family"trip we take.
I have gotten good advice from Fodorites in the past and wanted to get your input on hotels in Kyoto. We just started planning a couple of weeks ago and will be in Kyoto 12/23-27/14.

hotel choice:
We will be coming from Miyajima that morning after 2 days spent there in a ryokan. Many of the hotels that have been mentioned on the blog are already full. Would it be better to find a hotel in the northern or southern sector? any recommendations? We are fit and not bothered by walking, but my understanding is that the temples are not walking distance apart and most folks use a bus or taxi. Is that correct? Does anyone have experience with an apartment? That might be a good option for us.

guide recommendations?
Also, we really enjoy having a private guide and were wondering if anyone had someone they would recommend.

Day trip options?
We were considering Nara . Is it different enough that it would be important to see on this our first trip to Japan, 13 days in country? If so, is it a good idea to do as a day trip? I don't want to be doing a lot of one nighters.
Is Koya-san a reasonable option? My son, after being a passive participant in our trips has taken an interest in this one and would like to go there.

I much appreciate your advice!
Evelyn
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 07:07 AM
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I accidentally posted my answer to this post on your other thread, but I'll repeat it here:

If you have 4 full days in Kyoto, one of them could be spent on a day trip to Nara. Nara is easily reached by train and it is worth a visit. However, there is a lot to do in Kyoto and if you really only have 3 days there, I would skip Nara. We stayed at the Hyatt Regency and used taxis almost exclusively. Some of the sites in Kyoto (Arashiyama, Kinkajuki, etc.) will not be within walking distance of any place that you may decide to stay.
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 04:51 PM
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I agree with the previous posts. We also taxied to our furthest destinations, but also enjoyed that we could access a lot on foot or by train. My first choice would be staying within walking distance to the Gion Shijo or Sanjo stations, not only for transportation access, but it's walking distance to Gion, all of the temples in Higashiyama and tons of restaurants along side the river. If you do decide to take the train somewhere, the Keihan line will take you in minutes to the stops for Sanjusangendo, Fushimi Inari and even to Nara in about 40 min.
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 05:25 PM
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"guide recommendations? ... Also, we really enjoy having a private guide and were wondering if anyone had someone they would recommend."

You might consider a goodwill guide:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/arrange/tr...deservice.html

"We were considering Nara . Is it different enough that it would be important to see on this our first trip to Japan, 13 days in country?"

Tough call! I loved Nara, which is much older than Kyoto, but then I had a LOT more time in Japan than you are planning. I spent 4 full days in Kyoto and another 2 full days in Nara. You might want to sit down with some really good guidebooks, flag the sites you most want to visit, take note of their opening / closing hours, and lay things out on a calendar. That might help you prioritize. (BTW, keep in mind that shrines are generally open 24/7.)

"Is Koya-san a reasonable option?"

Again, a tough call given how limited your time is and the fact that you will be there in winter. I found a night there a highlight of my 3 weeks in Japan, but I can't speak to your interests. If you go, be sure to leave time for a walk of Okunoin at dawn or dusk or both. Also, my understanding is that one's experience of Koyasan varies greatly with one's choice of temple. I was very satisfied with Shojoshinin:
https://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/...n=Shojoshin-in

BTW, I found public transportation (subways and buses) sufficient for my time in Kyoto, but as others are noting, taxis could well be worth considering. Sites in Kyoto are definitely spread out enough that you will need to allow time to get from place to place, and you would do well to plan your time to minimize the distances between the places you are seeing on any one day.

Hope that helps!
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 05:39 PM
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We very much enjoyed Nara as a daytripon our first trip to Japan...and I think that everyone will enjoy the HUGE Buddha in the temple in Nara. There is something else very cool in Nara but I forget.

We had more days than you and chose
3 Tokyo
1 Hakone
8 Kyoto
1 Koya-san
2 Miyajima
1 Kyoto
We were happy with our choices. With a slightly shorter trip, I'd eliminate Tokyo and save it for another time. I was very glad we made the effort to go to Koya-san, even with Long travel days on either side. Our last night in Kyoto was to situate us well for flight home from Kansai. We were glad to have the chance to make the philosopher's walk again.

We stayed in the Westin that has deservedly mixed reviews. Our $300 standard room was boring though fine, the restaurants are very expensive (we took continental breakfast, includes cereal, ate noodles for dinner or shared room service chicken. The one meal we in a restaurant was very expensive and not worth it. That said, I'd return there. I loved being near the temples along the philosopher's walk and to have that walk in walking distance. A friend who had a deluxe room thought it was spectacular. Other than that we took taxis. Have heard that the Hyatt and the Gramsci are wonderful.

The only way we got our reservations (Nov--high season) was to use the Japan Tourist Bureau. They found us some when all sites were full including hotel website. Expect to pay full fee.

Take the time to reserve going to the $30 per person Moss Temple before you go--one of the most lovely gardens I have seen ever, simply magical. You begin by going to a Buddhist religious ceremony in which everyone does some writing in script--kids will like this. You can find instructions about how to do this in Fodor's and Frommer's.

Have a wonderful time. We loved it.
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 08:59 PM
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Thanks so much for your input,all of you. I really appreciate it!
In the interim, I have found an apartment for 4 people in the Gion district on the river on booking .com. It is new but the 27 reviews were very complimentary. We like to go grocery shopping and cook some of our meals. this place sounds like it is very close to public transportation but ,since there are 4 of us, taxis seem a bit more affordable than for solo travelers.
I had read on the blogs about the goodwill guide. thanks for the website!
I think we will go for the Koya-san ,Shojoshin-in if we can get in.
Still on the fence about Nara.What exactly did you love about it, kja? Does it have a different ambience? I do worry about the risk of overdoing the temples, with son particularly.
The moss temple also sounds very intriguing,cmstraf .I will send them a letter in the next few days. This is getting so exciting.
Evelyn
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Old Nov 13th, 2014, 10:43 PM
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"Still on the fence about Nara. What exactly did you love about it, kja? Does it have a different ambience?"

Yes, I thought it had a different ambience, but oh, my, it is really hard to articulate!

- Nara's historic core was walkable (at least by my standards of the time). In contrast, while some sites in Kyoto were linked by walkable paths or roads (e.g., the Philosopher's Walk), my impression was that Kyoto was decidedly urban, with some districts that held a high concentration of adjacent or nearly adjacent temples and shrines (e.g., Higashiyama, Arashiyama). Nara does, of course, have a more urban part, but the modern, urban part is a bit more easily avoided in Nara and Nara seemed to have a larger contiguous area (in and surrounding Nara Park) that was clearly historic.

- Nara is much older, and so many of its temples and shrines have simpler lines -- I'm not saying that's better or worse, just different. I loved knowing that some of these places had been used for worship continuously for more than a millennium. (I think Todaiji's main hall has been around for something on the order of 1250 years. Horyuji, just outside of Nara in Ikaruga, is apparently even older by a tad, and is also magnificent IMO.)

- When I was there (May of 2006), there were many tourists in parts of Nara, but I had quite a few parts to myself or with only a few others. Too, a substantial proportion of the other tourists I saw in Nara were Japanese school children of various ages, many of whom made an effort to speak to me. Kyoto had MANY tourists, including some Japanese of various ages, but a much larger proportion were international, and there were very, very few places where one had a few private moments (though they could be found).

-I stopped for a beverage in Nara-machi, and the proprietor -- a lovely woman -- was so surprised that I had done so (especially as a solo female traveler) that she insisted on treating me to a sweet that is one of her specialties. In Kyoto, I was treated with incredible kindness, graciousness, and courtesy, but ultimately, I was just another tourist.

- The statues at the Kofukuji temple treasure hall in Nara were among the most exquisitely expressive statues I saw anywhere in Japan and the Miroku Bosatsu at Chuguji (a temple within the grounds of Horyuji) may be the most beautiful Buddhist statue I have yet had the privilege to see -- certainly among the most moving. (And as a bonus, that same temple hall holds what I believe is Japan's oldest surviving embroidered cloth.)

- I had the good fortune to walk to Nara's Kasuga Shrine very early one morning, before the mist had burned off. A stone lantern here; another there; a few more; many many more; and then, as the mist burned off, I entered the part where the lanterns lined the walks and the striking orange paint on some of the main buildings contrasted with purple wisteria and, in the distance, purple blooms rising above the trees covering the hills beyond.... It was a sort of a stone-lantern parallel to Okunoin's atmospheric grave markers and Fushimi Inari's awesome torii.

None of these observations is intended to say that Nara is better or worse than Kyoto, which I also absolutely loved and which also held many special and extraordinarily memorable moments and images for me. I'm so very glad I saw both! I'm just trying to speak to the things that made Nara's ambience different as I experienced them.

BTW, I think most of us worry about getting "templed out" before going to Japan. Please remember that the experience of temples in much of Japan is really about experiencing the gardens. I honestly don't know what visiting in late December will be like in that regard. But even so, there are decided differences between temples and shrines and palaces (do consider visiting Nijo-jo in Kyoto!), and there are differences between different types of temples and different types of shrines. You should be able to identify a surprisingly diverse set of places to see with some research -- I recommend japan-guide.com, the seriously outdated (but still excellent) Japan Solo, and one or more of the guidebooks that feature really high quality photographs (e.g., the National Geographic Traveler, Eyewitness, or Insight Guide). Just as an example, and speaking only of Kyoto, I found tremendous differences among Chionin, Fushimi Inari, Heian Jingu, Honenin, Kinkakuji, Kiyiomizudera, Nijojo, Ryoanji, Sanjusangendo, and Tenryuji, just to name a few (all carefully listed in alphabetical order so as not to suggest a preference ;-) ). And no, I don't think you have time for all of these places, but whichever you end up seeing, I think you and your family will have a very memorable trip.

I don't think you will regret Koyasan -- it can be a really special experience, quite unlike anything else that many of us will ever experience.

Hope that helps!
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 07:25 AM
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kja--you write really well--and make me yearn to go back.

I totally agree both about Nara and Koyasan. Also if you can avoid making the Hiroshima memorial and museum the very first thing you do in Japan, I would recommend that. It is, however, a don't miss. I felt shamed that only U.S. president who has ever been there is Jimmy Carter (unless Obama has gone since).
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 08:57 AM
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Wow, thank you for taking the time to write so extensively. Nara sounds like a lovely place. I think we might do a day trip since it is not very far away. We have 5 nights and 4 days in Kyoto currently. I think sometimes we forget that these cities are very large by american standards, not little villages where one can stroll from site to site.Nara sounds more intimate in that way- though still not a village, I understand. did you have any issues with the deer at the park? Another blogger said to "watch out" for them, but I wasn't sure if they were aggressive or just cheeky enough to take your lunch out of your hands.

I have a request in to fukuchi-in on Koyasan. It is more than I wanted to pay but it sounds like the experience of being in a Buddhist temple will be worth it. We are making up for it with a less expensive guest house in in the region of Mt. fuji and apartment in Kyoto.

Sure appreciate all the advice!!
Evelyn
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 09:40 AM
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cmstraf, I forgot to respond to your recommendation of not having the Hiroshima museum be first activity in Japan. Logistically it just made sense and both kids have been to these soul searching difficult museums in the past; they both requested to see it and we agree that it is important. Since we were going to need to travel in Japan for the New Year and had been told that many things might be closed, we decided to spend the New Year in Tokyo, where we felt it more likely that some things would be open. A trip report had also mentioned that flying in and out of different airports prevented a need to backtrack, which made a lot of sense to us since we are traveling for such a short time.
Evelyn
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 09:40 AM
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Don't worry about the deer. My wife took a couple of bagels from our breakfast buffet and fed them but they were not aggressive. Just be careful though - I've heard stories of people getting bitten...
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 10:27 AM
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Thanks Craig. We live in the land of aggressive mountain goats so we will keep a wary eye on them.

cmstraf- I have been looking into the Moss Temple and realized that unless i can find some Japanese stamps, I don't think I can connect with them from here. Did you go through the Japan Tourist bureau for them or did you wait until you got to Japan to reserve? I don't think I will have enough time for that. I read on the blog where Carolyn got some stamps from a fellow blogger but never found out what happened, if she was able to reserve and ultimately see the moss temple.
evelyn
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 12:05 PM
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I also wouldn't worry about them at all, but a bit more cautious than Craig, would probably refrain from feeding them.
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 03:51 PM
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I didn't have trouble with the deer, and I also didn't try to feed them. But I have heard about a nip here and there. ;-)

@ cmstraf - thanks!
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 06:45 PM
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Hi Evelyn,

I did not use Japanese stamps. Not having them, I sent (I think) the equivalent of $10 (or 10 yen), asking if they could please use the money for stamps. They sent me back the reservation and the money as well.

Another thought would be to try the Japanese consulate or, as you said, JTB. My way was crude but effective. I tried to be extremely polite in my request.
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 07:13 PM
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Thanks cmstraf. that sounds like a good idea to send money.I will give it a go since I have some time before we head out.
Sincerely,
Evelyn
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 07:45 PM
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Just be sure to use japanese currency --you can get it at a bank
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Old Nov 16th, 2014, 08:13 AM
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Good reminder!I have some friends who have yen so will get it from them.
Evelyn
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Old Nov 16th, 2014, 08:58 AM
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We also always get about $200-300 dollars worth of foreign currency in cash before we leave the States. It saves high airport exchange rates and having to deal with it when you are tired from a long flight.
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Old Nov 18th, 2014, 05:50 PM
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Yes, we do that too. We are lucky that we live in Seattle where we can get foreign currency at the bank right around the corner.
Evelyn
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