Karen and Julie yearning for Asia, but... China or India?
Feb 21st, 2010, 02:54 PM
#1
Karen and Julie yearning for Asia, but... China or India?
Hi friends from the Asia board! You all were fantastic in helping me and my daughter plan our first trip to Asia -- Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia -- in 2006. (Remember all my questions -- and then how wonderful it turned out?) Well, after several adventures elsewhere (see other Fodor's boards), we're thinking about returning to Asia in the fall.
The dilemma: China or India. I know you can't make the decision for me and am pretty sure we'll be happy with either destination, but would appreciate your thoughts on our particular situation.
China is first choice, I think, for both of us. The dilemma is that my sister would like to go to China. but probably can't go this year and will definitely want to go on a tour rather than on our own. So I could go to India with Julie this year and then China next year, maybe with both of them. If we do India this year, we'll probably go independently (hire a driver). We'll only have two weeks, including travel time, regardless of which place we go.
If we do China, even if it's just Julie/me, we MAY do a tour (a small group one, like Gap) just to simplify things. I think I want to hit Beijing, Xi'an, Yangshuo, and Hong Kong, which I THINK is doable in two weeks?? (Would love to get to Yunnan or Tibet, but not enough time this trip.)
If we choose India, I'm less certain about the itinerary -- but I think Delhi, Varanasi, Jaipur, and Agra. Does that seem about right for two weeks? Open to other ideas for an itinerary -- haven't done much research on India yet.
So... would love your thoughts -- China or India. I know we're talking apples and oranges (and I hope to get to both!), but convince me, one way or another.
Or... I'd consider other (Asia) possibilities, as well... Vietnam, Burma, Nepal. Regardless, we're pretty much limited to two weeks this time (because my job).
We do, however, have a week in Hawaii next month!
Thanks.
Karen
The dilemma: China or India. I know you can't make the decision for me and am pretty sure we'll be happy with either destination, but would appreciate your thoughts on our particular situation.
China is first choice, I think, for both of us. The dilemma is that my sister would like to go to China. but probably can't go this year and will definitely want to go on a tour rather than on our own. So I could go to India with Julie this year and then China next year, maybe with both of them. If we do India this year, we'll probably go independently (hire a driver). We'll only have two weeks, including travel time, regardless of which place we go.
If we do China, even if it's just Julie/me, we MAY do a tour (a small group one, like Gap) just to simplify things. I think I want to hit Beijing, Xi'an, Yangshuo, and Hong Kong, which I THINK is doable in two weeks?? (Would love to get to Yunnan or Tibet, but not enough time this trip.)
If we choose India, I'm less certain about the itinerary -- but I think Delhi, Varanasi, Jaipur, and Agra. Does that seem about right for two weeks? Open to other ideas for an itinerary -- haven't done much research on India yet.
So... would love your thoughts -- China or India. I know we're talking apples and oranges (and I hope to get to both!), but convince me, one way or another.
Or... I'd consider other (Asia) possibilities, as well... Vietnam, Burma, Nepal. Regardless, we're pretty much limited to two weeks this time (because my job).
We do, however, have a week in Hawaii next month!
Thanks.
Karen
Feb 21st, 2010, 03:49 PM
#3
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Karen, if you are considering Burma, take a look at my recent report. I went to Nepal the previous year, so click on my name to bring up my trip reports.
www.marlandc.com for photos
Both China and India are huge - as you know. You could do half a dozen different trips in each and never hit the same destination twice.
www.marlandc.com for photos
Both China and India are huge - as you know. You could do half a dozen different trips in each and never hit the same destination twice.
Feb 21st, 2010, 07:25 PM
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i suggest india for the fall.. don't go till november however...the later the better... your cities would be perfect... we have just the driver for you.. i did very well with the sheraton's in agra and jaipur, booking way in advance..
also look at neemrana fort palace hotel for a nite or two before you return to delhi to come home..
also look at neemrana fort palace hotel for a nite or two before you return to delhi to come home..
Feb 22nd, 2010, 12:42 AM
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Without knowing anything about your interests, personality, etc it is way too hard for strangers to be the decision makers for you on this I think. Really, stick a pin in a map of Asia and see what you hit, and if it isn’t someplace you have been before, go there. You have a lot of choices.
Also, I would say that as mentioned above you could go again and again to both China and India and not see the same place twice. So you could easily go to Yunnan and Tibet on this trip and then go to the PRC again with your sister and see other parts of the PRC.
Other than the pin method, I would suggest you look at weatherbase.com and other weather websites and guidebooks to make sure that you like the weather you could encounter in those months in both places. Generally they are OK for India and the PRC, but you will still find a good bit of heat in India in September and early October, so see if those temps are OK with you. You would have some potential for hot temps in the PRC as well (and an excellent chance of heavy rain and the odd typhoon in Hong Kong, late Oct and November are much better months here). Some places, like coastal areas of Vietnam, get lots of rain in the fall months, so you would need to check on that.
I would also suggest you consider things like festivals and local holidays. In 2010 in India a major Hindu holiday, Devali (the Hindu new year), is celebrated on November 5. This can be a very festive time to be in India, although conversely you can find things like trains to be very crowded if you try to travel in the run-up to the holiday. Ramadan will end on about September 10 this year, this won’t greatly affect your travel in India (nor the PRC) other than in more heavily Muslim areas of India like Hyderabad where you may have some closures; but again to be in Hyderabad for the feast on Id might be interesting.
October 1 is National Day in the PRC, and this can be a somewhat busy time to be in China, as people will have 3 days to the whole week off (from Friday Oct 1 and then for up to a week into the following week). As this is one of the few holidays with no family obligations, people like to travel and go sightseeing. So you may want to avoid the PRC during the week before or after October 1 (this would not apply to Hong Kong, which celebrates the holiday only on Friday October 1, and where travel is not affected in the same manner).
If you go to India, you will not want to hire a driver to take you to or from Varanasi and any of the places on your list. You will want to fly or take a train. But you will learn this as you look at geography and get a better feel for distances.
Just to throw something out there, you might consider Bhutan, which I prefer to Nepal, and which has some good festivals in the fall months like in Thimphu in September. Two weeks would work well there. It’s quite a different form of Buddhism than you will have seen in Laos, Cambodia or Thailand, and it is a very beautiful country both geographically and spiritually.
I would finally mention in passing that there is no need, IMO, for a guided tour to the PRC. Even a “small” tour is unnecessary, unless it is only to get you good deals on airfare and hotels (which you pick). Otherwise, I think you are limiting yourself to what your tour decides is interesting as opposed to what <i>you</i> might think is interesting. If your sister joins you, gopefully you can convince her of the attractions of not using a tour.
Also, I would say that as mentioned above you could go again and again to both China and India and not see the same place twice. So you could easily go to Yunnan and Tibet on this trip and then go to the PRC again with your sister and see other parts of the PRC.
Other than the pin method, I would suggest you look at weatherbase.com and other weather websites and guidebooks to make sure that you like the weather you could encounter in those months in both places. Generally they are OK for India and the PRC, but you will still find a good bit of heat in India in September and early October, so see if those temps are OK with you. You would have some potential for hot temps in the PRC as well (and an excellent chance of heavy rain and the odd typhoon in Hong Kong, late Oct and November are much better months here). Some places, like coastal areas of Vietnam, get lots of rain in the fall months, so you would need to check on that.
I would also suggest you consider things like festivals and local holidays. In 2010 in India a major Hindu holiday, Devali (the Hindu new year), is celebrated on November 5. This can be a very festive time to be in India, although conversely you can find things like trains to be very crowded if you try to travel in the run-up to the holiday. Ramadan will end on about September 10 this year, this won’t greatly affect your travel in India (nor the PRC) other than in more heavily Muslim areas of India like Hyderabad where you may have some closures; but again to be in Hyderabad for the feast on Id might be interesting.
October 1 is National Day in the PRC, and this can be a somewhat busy time to be in China, as people will have 3 days to the whole week off (from Friday Oct 1 and then for up to a week into the following week). As this is one of the few holidays with no family obligations, people like to travel and go sightseeing. So you may want to avoid the PRC during the week before or after October 1 (this would not apply to Hong Kong, which celebrates the holiday only on Friday October 1, and where travel is not affected in the same manner).
If you go to India, you will not want to hire a driver to take you to or from Varanasi and any of the places on your list. You will want to fly or take a train. But you will learn this as you look at geography and get a better feel for distances.
Just to throw something out there, you might consider Bhutan, which I prefer to Nepal, and which has some good festivals in the fall months like in Thimphu in September. Two weeks would work well there. It’s quite a different form of Buddhism than you will have seen in Laos, Cambodia or Thailand, and it is a very beautiful country both geographically and spiritually.
I would finally mention in passing that there is no need, IMO, for a guided tour to the PRC. Even a “small” tour is unnecessary, unless it is only to get you good deals on airfare and hotels (which you pick). Otherwise, I think you are limiting yourself to what your tour decides is interesting as opposed to what <i>you</i> might think is interesting. If your sister joins you, gopefully you can convince her of the attractions of not using a tour.
Feb 22nd, 2010, 06:07 AM
#6
I agree with the advice already given - both countries are huge, and you could take several two week trips to either and only scratch the surface. Also, the later in the year the better - even in the Himalayas, if you were to go up to Darjeeling for instance, you need to arrive after the monsoon clears for the best views. The only place to go earlier would be Ladakh, and I wouldn't recommend that for a first visit in any case.
I also agree that you don't need a tour for either - there are several trip reports here from people who have traveled successfully on their own. Train transport in both countries is good, although China's soft sleeper class is now probably the most comfortable. Taxis (or rickshaws in India) are cheap.
India is more sensory overload than China, and has preserved its historic sites better (not well, always, but at least they didn't tear them down!) If you know you will go to China next year, I would be inclined to go to India this year, but Cicerone's suggestion of Yunnan and Tibet is certainly worth considering.
I also agree that you don't need a tour for either - there are several trip reports here from people who have traveled successfully on their own. Train transport in both countries is good, although China's soft sleeper class is now probably the most comfortable. Taxis (or rickshaws in India) are cheap.
India is more sensory overload than China, and has preserved its historic sites better (not well, always, but at least they didn't tear them down!) If you know you will go to China next year, I would be inclined to go to India this year, but Cicerone's suggestion of Yunnan and Tibet is certainly worth considering.
Feb 22nd, 2010, 04:32 PM
#7
You all have given me much to think about. Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Bhutan is definitely on my list, so that may be an option - with a few days in Nepal. I think I'll get Julie's take on that possibility. And I do like the idea of Burma, so I'm not sure. This may sound crazy, but as much as I like the Yunnan/Tibet suggestion (thanks, Cicerone), somehow it wouldn't FEEL right to me to go there BEFORE going to Beijing. It's like I'd be doing it out of order or something. I know, I know, that's silly (and makes me sound anal... um... but...)
Re India, yes, I need to take a closer look at the geography. I knew that we should prob fly to Varanasi, but had assumed a driver would be the way to go for Delhi - Jaipur - Agra. Also, if we do this trip, do you think Jaipur is better for a first-time visitor compared to say Udaipur or Jodhpur? (Bob - I'll be interested to know who your driver was - did you use him to go point to point or just within a city?)
Thanks!
Re India, yes, I need to take a closer look at the geography. I knew that we should prob fly to Varanasi, but had assumed a driver would be the way to go for Delhi - Jaipur - Agra. Also, if we do this trip, do you think Jaipur is better for a first-time visitor compared to say Udaipur or Jodhpur? (Bob - I'll be interested to know who your driver was - did you use him to go point to point or just within a city?)
Thanks!
Feb 22nd, 2010, 08:35 PM
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Travels in India are like unfolding of a fine novel which traverses, modernity, bullock cart age, Ascetic mysticism with materialism. There is romance & there is nostalgia! Where else will you find a naga (naked) sadhu doctorate in physics or an illiterate ‘charan’ (singer of epics) singing thousands of stanzas, by heart, without any aid of written material. While trekking up the steep slopes of snow clad mountains of the Hemkund & Badrinath, I expected to see the, gullible, poor peasantry & the nondescript faqirs. I was in for a surprise. Besides my wife & me walked people from all classes, the entire spectrum of Indian society!
India has got what one travels for & for travellers of all age groups. As you move away from the modern malls of Gurgaon & Delhi, one slowly gets to see the pastoral scenery, women in colourful sarees working in the fields, shepherds tending their burden of sheep, the gypsies on the move in their primeval horse drawn carts, donkeys & cows. The forts & Palaces perched atop hill tops, which earlier belonged to the feudatory chiefs & today turned into some exquisite heritage hotels, offering fine dining; Luxury camps & swimming pools, where you least expect these to be.
The Hindu Shaivite temples are adorned by beautiful images of gods & goddesses, charmingly suggestive & frozen in expectancy. You have the images of occult at Khajuraho; the mysticism of the Ganges at both Varanasi, Haridwar & Rishikesh.
The Indian road or the railways are never dull. These are full of ‘tamasha’ (spectacle)! Just sample this letter of complaint, yet displayed at the Railways museum Delhi, from an era when the third class compartments had no loos: “Beloved Sir—I am arrive by passenger train at Ahmedpore station and my belly is too much swelling with jackfruit. I am therefore went to privy. Just as I doing the nuisance that Guard making whistle blow for train to go off, and I am running with lotah (pot) in one hand and dhoti (loincloth) in the next when I am fall over and expose all my shocking to man and female woman on plate-form. I am got leaved at Ahmedpore station. This too much bad. If passenger go to make dung that damn Guard not wait train five minutes for him. I am therefore pray your honour to make big fine on that Guard for public sake. Otherwise I am making big report to papers. .”
Ladies & gentlemen, India it has to be!!
India has got what one travels for & for travellers of all age groups. As you move away from the modern malls of Gurgaon & Delhi, one slowly gets to see the pastoral scenery, women in colourful sarees working in the fields, shepherds tending their burden of sheep, the gypsies on the move in their primeval horse drawn carts, donkeys & cows. The forts & Palaces perched atop hill tops, which earlier belonged to the feudatory chiefs & today turned into some exquisite heritage hotels, offering fine dining; Luxury camps & swimming pools, where you least expect these to be.
The Hindu Shaivite temples are adorned by beautiful images of gods & goddesses, charmingly suggestive & frozen in expectancy. You have the images of occult at Khajuraho; the mysticism of the Ganges at both Varanasi, Haridwar & Rishikesh.
The Indian road or the railways are never dull. These are full of ‘tamasha’ (spectacle)! Just sample this letter of complaint, yet displayed at the Railways museum Delhi, from an era when the third class compartments had no loos: “Beloved Sir—I am arrive by passenger train at Ahmedpore station and my belly is too much swelling with jackfruit. I am therefore went to privy. Just as I doing the nuisance that Guard making whistle blow for train to go off, and I am running with lotah (pot) in one hand and dhoti (loincloth) in the next when I am fall over and expose all my shocking to man and female woman on plate-form. I am got leaved at Ahmedpore station. This too much bad. If passenger go to make dung that damn Guard not wait train five minutes for him. I am therefore pray your honour to make big fine on that Guard for public sake. Otherwise I am making big report to papers. .”
Ladies & gentlemen, India it has to be!!
Feb 23rd, 2010, 01:43 AM
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That is a tough decision, but you can't go wrong either way! To me, China was a bit easier than India, but neither one was really difficult to travel independently. I used train and plane in India to get around, booking via various websites (and with lots of help from this site and www.indiamike.com)
Just to throw another thought into the mix, Vietnam is gorgeous and fascinating and perhaps "feels" more manageable in just two weeks of travel time...but again, nothing preventing you from going back to any place either...
Here are my trip reports for all three places, if you'd like to compare one traveler's view: China was Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, Tibet, and HK; India-the far South, Delhi, Agra, Varanasi, and Ladakh; Vietnam-Hanoi, HoiAn, Hue, and HCMC.
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...s-in-china.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...rip-report.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...d-far-away.cfm
Just to throw another thought into the mix, Vietnam is gorgeous and fascinating and perhaps "feels" more manageable in just two weeks of travel time...but again, nothing preventing you from going back to any place either...
Here are my trip reports for all three places, if you'd like to compare one traveler's view: China was Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, Tibet, and HK; India-the far South, Delhi, Agra, Varanasi, and Ladakh; Vietnam-Hanoi, HoiAn, Hue, and HCMC.
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...s-in-china.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...rip-report.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...d-far-away.cfm
Feb 23rd, 2010, 02:29 PM
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Karen, I studied abroad in India in 2006. I stayed with a host family in Jaipur, then studied in Delhi and made trips to Agra, Varanasi and Pushkar. Delhi, Jaipur and Agra form the Golden Triangle and are insanely easy to get around via public transport. Varanasi, while a must see, is roughly a 15 hour train ride from Agra, since it is so much farther south. It's an easy and comfortable trip by train, I don't know about a driver. I hired a driver from Delhi to Agra which was enjoyable but I really missed the interactions with other people on the trains, which i thought were an integral part of my trip there. 1st class accommodations on the trains are really quite nice, and there are plenty of non-indian types to converse with as well. I recommend finding a nice guest house while in Jaipur, it's a fantastic experience the families are so kind and you get the most delicious home cooked food (and they are very mindful of what you are and aren't able to consume while there). Udaipur is a 12 hour trip from Jaipur, but Pushkar is only a 5 hour trip and its one of the holiest cities (next to Varanasi of course) and I highly recommend it. I went twice, and rode camels to watch the desert sunset which was amazing (we even got to race our camels home).
I would definitely go in the fall, i was there in the spring and it was unbearably hot by the time i left in May.
I hope you choose India, though I am traveling to China this May so maybe I can offer some insight about one or the other later. Best of luck!
I would definitely go in the fall, i was there in the spring and it was unbearably hot by the time i left in May.
I hope you choose India, though I am traveling to China this May so maybe I can offer some insight about one or the other later. Best of luck!
May 31st, 2010, 01:43 PM
#13
After all these good ideas, we've now just about settled on....
Japan.
Yes, I know it wasn't on the original list of contenders. But as we discussed ideas, we decided that Japan might just fit the bill this time. Once we've definitely decided, I'll be back with more questions (in a new thread) on Japan.
Thanks for all your input. (Much of it will be used for future trips!)
Japan.
Yes, I know it wasn't on the original list of contenders. But as we discussed ideas, we decided that Japan might just fit the bill this time. Once we've definitely decided, I'll be back with more questions (in a new thread) on Japan.
Thanks for all your input. (Much of it will be used for future trips!)
