Kaiten conveyor belt sushi in Sapporo

Aug 12th, 2010, 06:49 AM
  #21  
 
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NeoPatrick just typed: If you'll read back you'll find that there is only one of us here speaking in "definites".

And a day earlier, NeoPatrick typed this: Trust me, this sushi had not been frozen, that much I can certainly tell.

I don't mind someone speaking in definites, except, of course when s/he's definitely mistaken.

(And, btw, if "sushi snobbery" was not intended to be pejorative, how was it intended?)
DonTopaz is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 02:19 PM
  #22  
 
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...oh, and where was the best sushi in Sapporo.....??
Tommmo is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 02:41 PM
  #23  
 
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Tommmo,lol,lol,lol.....maybe after the sushi gods put away the soap boxes they will get back to answering fodorites questions,lol
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 03:33 PM
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I define snobbery as have very particular interest and taste in someone. Someone who cares greatly about what clothes they wear is a clothing snob. Someone who only likes fine restaurants is a food snob. Someone who who is particular about classical music would only attend the best concerts. Someone who is a sushi snob only appreciates fine sushi chefs and not mundane conveyor belt places. If you find that insulting so be it, but it was not intended to be. Some posters here actually call themselves things like "food snob" and "travel snob". They do not mean it to be self demeaning. They wear their label proudly. If I were a sushi snob, I would wear that label proudly. Sorry if my definition of being a "snob" differs from yours -- but I honestly DID not mean it to be insulting.

Tommmo and Hawiiantraveler -- yes, too funny. I have never been so sorry I bothered to answer a simple post about conveyor belt sushi by simply asking if there was a Kappa Zushi in Sapporo. I had no intention of getting into a sushi battle, and I had no idea such a comment would be the beginning of the Inquisition!
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 03:57 PM
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Sapporo has snow and beer; no sushi.

My bad for inferring something unintended. Apologies. I'd use the term connoisseur instead, but so what.

----------------------
A diversion: The word 'snob' has a great derivation. Until the early 18th C., the only people who traveled in France were nobles. But then some of the middle class (to the extent that there was any) began to travel, and of course they needed a place to stay en route. According to custom, non-nobles would be asked by innkeepers to add "s/nob.," for sans nobilité, to their names on the register.
DonTopaz is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 04:58 PM
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NeoPatrick
What you did was by proffering your own views on sushi and quality of ingredients, you have just revealed to Fodorite Asia regulars how little you know about the subject. You don't have to be an expert to comment on here, of course not, but if you post opinions that are clearly wrong, don't be surprised when people who are better informed try to correct you, just so that others will not get misled. There is no inquisition, no point scoring, no oneupmanship: just a free open forum operating as it should as a place for debate and useful information.
BTW, I'm not a sushi snob. I eat it anywhere, in kaiten, from combini, as well as in gourmet places. There is no contradiction in saying that 105 yen a plate and $200 a head are equally fine value for money.
And there is no Kappa Zushi in Sapporo, or anywhere in Hokkaido, yet.
Alec is offline  
Aug 12th, 2010, 10:38 PM
  #27  
 
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"you have just revealed to Fodorite Asia regulars how little you know about the subject." HUH????

Alec, read my lips. I know nothing about sushi. If you read my very first statement you will see that I tried to make that clear -- "I may not be a sushi expert." Was that too hard for you to understand? I don't care about being corrected -- but I do feel like the whole thing here has been some sort of challenge. You keep acting like I tried to say the sushi at Kappa was the same as a gourmet place. I think maybe you need a course in reading comprehension. I merely mentioned a conveyor belt place like the OP asked about and said that a friend who does know sushi says it is great.

Sorry, but it sure seemed like an inquisition to me. And I do stand corrected that I may not know if fish has been frozen. I always thought it changed the texture considerably, but guess not in this new age.
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 02:21 AM
  #28  
 
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Yes, I read that. But still you went on to make some unfounded statements about the quality of ingredients in fast food sushi places (citing your expert friend), mixing frozen fish with fresh (yes, modern technology covers it pretty well, but won't fool regular sushi eaters) and are now trying to gain sympathy for victimisation, when all that happened was that you were corrected for your errors of facts.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, as we Brits often say.
Alec is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 07:03 AM
  #29  
 
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All of this from an innocent report by someones personal experience......how sad

Just a few misstatements by the toro sushi expert

To sell sushi at 105 yen a piece (pair), you must use cheap source of fish,
a totally false statement.

while in specialist sushi restaurants, fish is always fresh, and almost certain to have been caught inshore.
another false statement if you know anything about the yellowfin tuna. I know that the Japanese villages now farm yellowfin offshore but they are not the fattiest or the best quality at all.....The Japanese Maru fishing fleet fishes now worldwide in hunt for the yellowfin....I can see them from my view of the Pacific Ocean from my home all the time.....

There are others factual inadequacies but these will suffice for now.

Neo made an innocent observation in his original statement and you turned it into a who knows more about sushi war, geeeez lighten up
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 08:01 AM
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My specialist sushi restaurant doesn't serve yellowfin tuna unless it's available fresh from inshore waters (still select quality).
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Aug 13th, 2010, 09:05 AM
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Same for the bluefin tuna......again not caught from inshore waters unless farmed......
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 09:37 AM
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My sushi chef says he only serves natural, non-farmed tuna (all varieties) caught within territorial waters, which costs considerably more than frozen or farmed variety. Natural tuna's ootoro costs between 3000 to 5000 yen per 100g, chutoro around 1500 to 3000 yen, and akami around 500 to 1000 yen.
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Aug 13th, 2010, 09:58 AM
  #33  
 
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Unless your Chef de Sushi can produce a Certificate of Authenticity and Provenance for the tuna, like they do for the ducks at La Tour d'Argent, I won't be especially impressed.
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Aug 13th, 2010, 10:47 AM
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No need to. I trust him!
Alec is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 11:48 AM
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You shouldn't. Your sushi man is limiting his inventory to the over fished territorial waters(now updated I notice)of Japan which is why you are overpaying for that sliver of ootoro.

Oh and about the not frozen part......have you ever gone fishing for tuna? I have, many times. You usually brine the tuna in an ice and seawater(to preserve the salt flavor of the fish and for the chilling effect of salt mixed with ice) mix to stop the blood loss and preserve the freshness and flavor of the meat so unless you can cut a piece when it is fresh out of the water(yes I have more than once) then you are likely to get fish that was once very cold.....

The best bluefin tuna does not come out of Japan's fish depleted territorial waters....pretty much common knowledge. That why the fleet fishes world wide.

The Japanese are over fishing all four oceans of the world and depleting all the stocks of bluefin worldwide to feed their voracious appetites for the fish. You forgot that little fact when lecturing us about your favorite toro sushi.
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 12:32 PM
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But there is an increasing demand for sushi worldwide, hence other countries are on the act themselves, not just the Japanese fishing fleet. For example, 20 years ago wholesale toro used to be cheap away from Japanese markets - not so now.
Bluefin tuna (kuromaguro) is still caught (by ipponzuri) in waters around Japan, admittedly in small quantities and thus expensive, but prized for its flavour.
Packing in ice and brine and deep-freezing are two different things.
Alec is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 12:51 PM
  #37  
 
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Yes bluefin are caught by ipponzuri in small quantities and sizes which is why limiting ones take to local waters is only limiting customers quality.

I never mentioned deep freezing on this thread. You are starting to change your adjectives around now. Deep freezing,territorial waters instead of offshore.....

20 years ago wholesale tuna was not cheap outside of Japan.....tuna may have been cheap before the 1970's but after that.......

Do not think that brine and ice will not freeze the meat, you do not know of what you speak.
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 01:51 PM
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You didn't but the basis of the argument has been over using deep frozen fish in kaiten zushi and freshly caught and chilled fish in sushi restaurants.
I particularly mentioned the example of toro - not the whole fish - where the popularity of sushi worldwide has made it much more expensive.
Deep-frozen tuna, kept at -50 to -60C is said to retain its flavour and texture but the popularilty of chilled tuna up to -10C is more in demand and commands premium prices.
My chef sources his tuna exclusively from fishermen in Yamaguchi Prefecture, where between one and five are caught nightly by ipponzuri, packed in ice and air lifted from Yamaguchi Airport to Haneda, and transported to his restaurant via Tsukiji Market.
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Aug 13th, 2010, 02:11 PM
  #39  
 
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You don't catch tuna at night
hawaiiantraveler is offline  
Aug 13th, 2010, 02:14 PM
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Average wholesale price of deep-frozen tuna is around 7000 yen per kg, while the one caught in nearby waters can be up to 30,000 yen per kg. So an average 100 kg tuna can cost around 3 million yen or $35,000 vs $8,000 for deep-frozen imported fish.
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