Jakarta For a Long Term Assignment- Anyone?
 

hi
i think this is a long shot, but has anyone lived in (is anyone currently living in) jakarta?

i have an opportunity to do a long term project that will be in the city center in a building the entire time. i am not concerned about safety, but rather the pollution.

i get faint at high temperatures and dizzy when the air quality is poor. i have researched and am not sure just how bad things might get there. i don;t want to let down the sending organization by showing up and collapsing.

i have been to singapore many times, but never felt overwhelmed, but often did in thailand's heat.

medical opinions aside, am i setting myself up for disaster?

thanks for advice.

kerikeri :)

One of our regular posters, marmot, is currently on a long term assignment in Jakarta. I'm sure she can give you some info.

By the way, I'm surprised to hear that Thailand's heat got to you more than Singapore's. Really their temps are pretty comparable.

thanks for the reply and i look forward to hearing from marmot, then.

as to the heat difference, in thailand the situation i was in was rural, in singapore there is usually air conditioning a few footsteps away from everywhere.

if it is a singapore situation in jakarta- many opportunities to duck into an overly air conditioned store or building between destinations, or buy an ice cold wateror drink, i will be fine.

if it is, as i have read, the case that getting from point a to point b in the city is unavoidably either in oppressive heat or endless smog-choked traffic jams, then i may be setting myself up for disaster.

My personal experience in Jakarta (as a visitor) was that there were plenty of air-conditioned spaces in the central business district. Traffic was bad, but in an air-conditioned car, it was just long, not terribly uncomfortable.

Marmot, of course, will have lots of current details for you.

I lived for 18 months in Jakarta in the mid 90's, it is constantly hot and with the amount traffic etc, it is very polluted. I was working on Jalan Sudirman in the centre.

On the plus side, the people are incredibly friendly and the offices are well air conditioned but the overall problem that I found was that there wasn't a lot to do when you're not working. I lived at the Shangri-La hotel for about a year, and 6 months at the nearby Ascott and I just sat by the pool reading and swimming.

Knowing some Bahasa Indonesia is a good idea for instructing taxi drivers etc and its a pretty easy language to learn

Geordie

thanks for that reply.

i know there have been a lot of changes in the past 10 years, so it seems that there are now shops and things for those few off hours...

i'm kind of surprised there aren't museums?

and the sitting by the pool and swimming also actually doesn't sound like much of a hardship...

and terima kasih for the language tip. i have heard that twice today and am encouraged. (but i was also told not to take cabs...or maybe that's a "just from the airport" thing?)

in any case, thank you for the input.

sama sama

There were plenty of shops when I was there, I'm just not into shopping.

There was a national museum but it took about 10 minutes to go through it and I was the only person there.

Don't take the private taxis at the airport, I'm assuming Silver Bird taxis are still around and they are very good.

Unless you have your own driver, you really need to take taxis to get around as there is virtually no public buses that you would want to get on or even know where they are going, as the routes are decided by the driver.

The golf courses are very good but a bit of a hike to get to them and the heat makes it quite a challenge.

I did do white water rafting (it was actually brown water) and I visited some outlying islands from Jakarta, which were pleasant

Geordie

kerikeri -

I live in Indonesia (Sumatra) and I've been to Jakarta a few times.

My visits were short (3-4 days each time), but they left quite an impression - unbelievable traffic (we literally spent hours getting from point A to B), horrible air pollution that tormented my eyes and left me with a sore throat and cough, crowds, congestion, and noise, noise, noise.

My husband's company has many employees based in Jakarta - some seem to like it, but it's definitely not the place for us.

To give you an idea about the air pollution, here's a photo I took from my hotel window during one of my visits - pollution so thick you could cut it with a knife.

http://www.worldisround.com/articles/333649/index.html

For what it's worth, I found Jakarta less humid than Sumatra or Singapore (I visit Singapore about six times a year), but equally hot. Subjective I know, but there it is.

kerikeri, I've lived in Jakarta since 1995. I always joke (half seriously) that it's a nice place to live but I wouldn't want to visit.

No doubt that it's hot, 365/24/7. I agree that it "feels" hotter than Singapore, I think because of the pollution. And, yes, Jakarta has terrible pollution -- industrial and natural from the humidity and volcanic activity. Endless smog choked traffic jams pretty much describes daily life. But, hey, you're not driving, so get an i-Pod and chill.

The good news is that you're seldom out of doors (except by the pool) and all buildings are sufficiently air conditioned.

Expats seldom walk anywhere in the city. Aside from the heat and humidity there are no consistent sidewalks. This bothered me at first but now I'm used to being driven everywhere.

You should have access to a full time car and driver. I would make that a perquisite of the job. Taxis are unreliable and sometimes unsafe.

You can have a high quality of life here in other areas -- maids, cooks, drivers, gardens, swimming pools, travel to Bali and other exotic spots. The cost of living is very low. The expat community is lively and social. It helps in live South of the business district. Less pollution and less driving on weekends.

There is a reasonable choice in restaurants and clubs. Lots of upscale shopping malls, movies. Museums are lacking but art is everywhere. Western style culture like theater and music is extremely limited, but Asian culture is ubiquitous. Golf tennis swimming are readily available. Adventure travel throughout Asia is inexpensive.

Hi marmot -

I'll never forget the insight you provided back in 2004 when I posted a question here about what to expect when I moved to Indonesia. You said that for some it's paradise and for others it's prison.

You weren't kidding.

I'm happy to report that we're being released from prison next month.

thank you all!

i think i have a much better idea of things. the "no walking to anything" is really what i found to be the biggest downside to my imprisonment in, i mean, service in, africa. i lived there but still feel as though i saw nothing, due to the opressive heat and difficulty of navigating the bus system, and prohibitive cost/ personal danger of relying on taxis.

i will ask about the car and driver.

the contact in country mentioned "the area where most people live," but, actually for security reasons i was thinking i would do what Geordie did and stay in a residential hotel in the city center.

if there is an active board that is more appropriate for my line of questioning, thanks for telling me, but marmot, can you name the residential districts that might be best? are there buildings with pools there or just houses. i'm too old for a roommate, but too lonely for a single dwelling, so an apartment/hotel style area?

and if i don't get a car and driver is that an additional inconvenience to have to get into "town" and back each day?

i am definitely jealous of Melnq8's frequent singapore trips. i think i just love singapore and this is the closest i could get to an assignment there (only half kidding).

thank you for your help. i am receiving a lot of pressure to name a starting date and would like to make my decision based on the realities you are sharing.

also, marmot, since you're also female, any issues with clothing you'd care to share beyond the all-encompassing "modest" most appreciated. for example, what do you wear to work? will pants be ok or must i always be in long skirts?
are western work clothes fine for downtown (knee length skirts, etc.)

thank you very, very much.

i remembered one travel related question to legitimize this line of questioning.

in which part of the city is the train station that one uses for yogyakarta?

i have decided that i will get out of town by train rather than flying if i go, and that would be my first destination.

thank you again. i greatly appreciate your time.

Have you looked at these sites -
http://www.expat.or.id/ it discusses neighbourhoods to live in etc. and their expat chat seems to be up to date http://expatforum.digitaldevelopment...cfm?channel=18

also
http://www.alloexpat.com/indonesia_expat_forum/

Hope they are helpful.
My sister-in-law is Indonesian Chinese and I have been to Jakarta. The bit about having a car to pick you up and drive you I'd say is really important. There is no real walking place and without a driver I can imagine life would be difficult. My sister-in-laws family have their own drivers and they are really needed to get around.

thank you so much for those links- i will check them out.

(i'm in the west, so i'm in my daytime at the moment).

actiually- that top one was the one i had already found! it seems people don't really respond very often, or maybe i'm accutsomed to the fast pace of fodorites.

even so, i appreciate your help!

Kerikeri, I would recommend that you live in Kemang. It’s a lively area with lots of shops and restaurants. There are many apartments available. Most are lowrise and most have pools, gardens so you can get outside. Take a look at the Kemang Club Villas as a starting place.

There’s also a popular social and athletic club in the area that many foreigners join. It was originally for Americans but now is open to other nationalities. There are many business associations that provide opportunities for networking and meeting people.

You would definitely need a car and driver to get to work. It would take about 45 minutes from Kemang to the Central Business District. I would think that living in an apartment highrise in the business district would be very isolating. Many people do so because they want to avoid the traffic, but I don’t recommend it. You need to be around people who share your interests.

Having your own car and driver is a must in Jakarta. This is not a luxury; this is a necessity. Not just for getting to work, but for having a life. If your employer doesn’t understand this s/he hasn’t spent time in Jakarta. If you are being asked to rely on taxis or God forbid public transportation, you should give the assignment a miss.

If you are the only foreigner that your organization has in Indonesia you may be somewhat of a trail blazer. The environment is quite different from other Asian cities so you must ASK for what you need – car, driver, nice place to live with good security and reliable aircon, good health insurance including evacuation insurance, membership to a club and/or to a professional group. Your wishlist beyond necessities might include allowances for gasoline, electricity, travel, domestic help, a clinic membership. You need to have an agreement in the event that there is an emergency back home.

Forget the train to Yogya (except as a onetime cultural experience). Flights are cheap and readily available. Same for Singapore, but be aware that if you have an Indonesian work permit you will have to pay about US$100 every time you leave the country. You should negotiate for your employer to pay this.

Don’t worry about dress. Jakarta and most of Indonesia (we’re not talking about Aceh here, right?) is very tolerant and informal. Wear what you want. Pants/skirts and shirts/knit tops are normal business attire. If you’re in a formal industry you might wear a jacket. All that “cover your arms and legs” advice doesn’t apply in Jakarta. The funny thing is that many Indonesia HATE aircon and you’ll often see them wearing sweaters or jackets while we are melting.

Jakarta is a comparatively safe city. Considering that the population is 15 million and counting, the rate of violent crime is very, very low. Much lower than an American city of the same size. Of course there is burglary and the occasional robbery and you have to use common sense, but I wouldn’t consider security a major negative.

I’ve been very pleased with my life in Jakarta. I have a nice house with a lovely garden and many friends, Indonesian and foreign. My son attended an excellent international school. But, most significantly, I really love my work in Indonesia. The Indonesian people are among the most hospitable and gracious in the world. They’re a joy to be around. It’s also been extremely gratifying to watch a developing country navigate the transition from a dictatorship to a functioning democracy. These are an endangered species in Asia.

The success/failure rate of anyone in Indonesia is highly personal. It helps to have a good sense of humor and a high tolerance for the weird. It’s definitely not for everyone, but those who flourish here keep a special place in their hearts for Indonesia.

thank you so much for that level of detail and your unique insight.

it is precisely because i am "the new foreigner" that i didn't want to be too demanding. i made a very basic request (that i not transmit all of my personal details via email and instead, fax them) and was told "everyone does it this way" and no fax number was provided. uh-oh.

i can only imagine what the car and driver request will bring. i will attempt it this morning.

on the other hand, all that you have written has made me very excited to give it a try. i'm shocked about the visa extra $100, because i (mistakenly no doubt) thought i read on the embassy website that $100 would cover a multi-entry visa.

i'm going to check out those apartments online now.

thank you again. it's really nice of you to help! (you have become indonesian yourself, haven't you?)

oh, and the train was because i want to limit my air travel in country.

kerikeri :)

kerikeri -

The $100 marmot refers to is a one million rp fical tax that must be paid every time you leave the country. Our company covers it, all we need do is submit the receipt (don't fall for the "no receipt trick" of paying only 500k rp, but not getting a receipt).

The exception is when you leave the country by ferry, the tax is only 500k rp - about US $50 - (at least from Sumatra).

In addition to the 1 million rp fical tax, there are other small taxes that will apply when you leave Indonesia - for us, it's 60k rp for an international departure, plus 25k rp for domestic. These fees are negligible, but something to keep in mind.

thanks for clarifying that.

and that neighborhood does look great.

so the office opens in an hour. i'll see how the car and driver line goes down!