lornab

I'm taking the Trans-Mongolian Express to Beijing with a subsequent trip to North Korea in July. I then want to spend a few days in China before moving on to South Korea to visit my cousin. I'd appreciate some tips on the following loose itinerary:

- 02-22/07: St Petersburg-Beijing
--- Having spent 2 days in a tour group seeing the main attractions, would you recommend staying in Beijing for another 3 or taking a trip out of the city (bearing in mind July weather)?
- 25/07-01/08: North Korea
- 02- ~10/08: China (leaving from Beijing)
--- We would particularly like to visit Xian, before spending a day or two in Shanghai city & surroundings... other suggestions for this time?
- ~10-20/08: South Korea
--- A couple of days in Seoul, some time in Daegu and? I'd love to finish this intense trip somewhere relaxing!

China/South Korea dates are fluid - for example instead of staying in Beijing for 5 days would it be better to go to Xian then?

thursdaysd

How much are you stopping on the trip across Russia? With the heat and pollution in Beijing in July I'd be inclined to spend more time in Siberia (think Lake Baikal) and Mongolia. Once in China you can take the night train from Beijing to Xi'an, and fly or train to Shanghai, where I would consider an overnight in Hangzhou or Suzhou. I much prefer Beijing to Shanghai, and there is a lot to do there, but I haven't visited since the pollution got so bad.

I didn't visit it when I was in South Korea, but in the south there is the "honeymoon island", Jeju-do (Cheju). Which company are you using for North Korea?

kja

I defer to thursdaysd, but for what it's worth, I thought Beijing worth at least 6 full days and Xi'an worth 3 or 4. But your interests might differ from mine. Haven't been to the other places you mention (except wonderful St. Petersburg). Enjoy!

thursdaysd

kja - I don't disagree that Beijing is worth six days (or even more) in terms of what there is to see. However, with the current levels of pollution, and the fact that the OP is visiting in July, I think Siberia might be more comfortable. (Although when I was actually IN Russia I wound up eager to get to China, but that was in 2004.)

On the pollution, see: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/23/wo...anted=all&_r=0

kja

Indeed! That's one of the reasons why I expressly deferred to you, thursdaysd - I thought you raised some very important considerations.

temppeternh

If you start to add in lesser-known but often very curious and charming sights, Beijing has at least two weeks of things to see, and day trips out can provide variety and a rural element.

But having just spent five weeks there I'd have to concur that while many will say of their own visits, 'It's only a few days', and see the benefits as more than the costs, more and more will see the costs greater than the benefits. Certainly, despite a total of several years spent in the city in extended visits and periods of residence since 1986, and despite a great fondness for a city I know better than any other, I found the pollution oppressive this year.

But unfortunately Beijing isn't even the most polluted of China's cities, and pollution is found throughout the country, although clearly worse in some places than others. Riding the eight-hour express train from Beijing to Guangzhou the other day, and looking at the AQI figures in cities through which the line passed, several were worse than Beijing.

In the end with Beijing it's a matter of luck, but unfortunately the winds that bring relief are more common in the spring and autumn than in the summer, although summer rains, much needed after an even dryer spring than usual, also help to clear the air temporarily.

I'd say, on balance, do the five days (which really isn't nearly enough), include one out-of-town trip, and take a couple of N95 masks with you in case the pollution happens to peak while you're there.

But if you're in any way asthmatic or sensitive to pollution, avoid China altogether.

thursdaysd

The situation in China is really sad. However, although I defer to Peter, I wonder whether parts of the west and south-west should be avoided? The countryside south of Kunming, for instance, or the area west of Chengdu, or Xinjiang province? I realise you couldn't avoid the cities entirely, but there is an awful lot of China outside the cities.

jobin

IMO, any american who travels to North Korea and is not travelling on a diplomatic passport is taking a high risk. Abduction by the state of NK is now becoming the norm for obtaining 'bargaining chips'. Who would travel to Nigeria to visit the Boko Haram lads?

thursdaysd

jobin - that seems to be an exageration. The people I have read about who have been "detained" have not been tourists following the rules, but missionaries, or people helping Koreans to'escape (no doubt a worthy activity, but unlikely to be relevant to the OP). I have not heard of people on scheduled tours having trouble, any links to support your contention?

lornab

Thanks all.

First, thursdaysd, unfortunately the Trans-Mongolian trip is inflexible as we're travelling with a tour group (the tour ends with the two days in Beijing I originally referred to). I believe we'll be at/around Lake Baikal for 2 days on our journey.

Regarding North Korea we had planned on going with Regent but due to the current situation there the Dept. of Foreign Affairs (jobin I'm Irish so there's little chance of abduction) has issued 'only if necessary' travel advice. While this is still in place our insurance company won't cover us in NK so if that isn't lifted before July that we'll likely have an extra week in the region.

How much should be devoted to Seoul during a ~10 day visit to SK? Ideally I'd like to make it to Daegu and then south but do realise I can't do everything!

thursdaysd

I think a couple of days for Seoul is plenty. (Click on my name for my East Asia TR including South Korea.) So much of Korea's history has been destroyed in assorted wars that you are better off concentrating on scenery.

I have been considering Koryo for North Korea, so will be interested to hear how Regent works out, if you get to go. Who are you using for the Trans-Mongolian?

BTW, if North Korea doesn't pan out you might consider Taiwan as a substitute. (See the same TR.)