simone99

Hi All,

Im in the initial stages of planning my first trip to Japan in Nov. I wanted to make sure I had amount of time in Tokyo and Kyoto, and base day trips or overnights around that. Ideally I'd like a balance of city/rural, castles, temples/shrines, Japanese gardens, Fall scenery/walks, cutlure, history etc. I'm not asking for much!

So, this is what I was thinking:

Fri: Arrive Tokyo 3.30pm
Sat: Tokyo
Sun: Tokyo
MOn: Nikko Overnight Nikko
Tue: NIkko Overnight Tokyo
Wed: Tokyo
Thur: Bullet train to Kyoto, Kyoto
Fri: Kyoto
Sat: Kyoto
Sun: Kanazawa Overnight Kanazawa
Mon: Kanazawa Overnight Kyoto
Tue: Kyoto
Wed: Kyoto
Thur: Koya-san Overnight Kyoto
Fri: Kyoto
Sat: Himeji Overnight Kyoto
Sun: Midday from from Kansai

Questions:

- Are there any towns along the route IM taking that you think is a must see?
- Anything you think isn't worth seeing?
- Are the first 2 weeks of Nov a good time to see the maples leaves?
- What train passes would you resommend? The Kansai pass for the last portion of the trip?

Thanks in advance for your help!

lilipad

Hi Simone,
We were in Japan for 2 weeks last October 2006. Trip report is below under 'Japan Trip Report - Honeymoon 10-1 to 10-14-07'. Now you may have your reasons, but looking at your itinerary so far, it seems you are making it a bit too hectic than it needs to be (now I know ours was a little hectic, but i had trouble getting consecutive reservations, but u r planning well in advance so that shouldn't be the issue).

So, unless you have a reason, I don't see the need for you to jump around so much ... 2 nights here, 2 nights there, than back again ... you'll wear out with the travels and luggage. It's better to have more consecutive time in a town. More specifically, in Kyoto, which is an amazing place. WE were there Monday night to Saturday (with 1.5 day trips) and it was not enough for that lovely city.

In Kyoto, you will spend:
1. full day visiting the 5+ temples of philosopher's walk
2. nijo castle/geisha area is another day
3. there are temples all over the city and amazing neighborhoods to visit around Kyoto
4. gold pavilion and numerous gardens are in the north part of Kyoto

Needless to say, there is MUCH to do in Kyoto so take a closer look at your guidebooks and see what specifically interests you in each city, as you may want to reallign your schedule a little and maybe take some of your side visits out.

I would definitely keep Nikko as a one nighter from Tokyo. Why do you feel you need 2 nights? If it's for the colors, it may be a little cold to spend so much time outside...

Regarding the passes, you'll likely just want to look at the prices for train tickets to see what makes best sense ... the JR pass is most flexible BUT it may not be worth it for you since you do not have to return to Tokyo for your flight out.

PS - if you want to see Sumo, in Tokyo, you can visit a training session at a stable if there are no matches going on - it's a neat and one of a kind experience!

kja

You might want to consider going to Kanazawa from Tokyo (and then on to Kyoto) - it might simplify your travels.

Also, you might want to consider staying overnight at a temple in Koyasan - it can be a remarkable experience!

Hope that helps!

mrwunrfl

On your Sun: Tokyo you should go to Meiji Shrine.

You could move your Wed: Tokyo to be MOn: Tokyo and move Nikko to one day later.

You could then travel from Nikko to Kyoto without the stop in Tokyo. That first Wednesday could be day 1 of a 7-day JR Pass. On Thu, Fri, Sat or the following Tue you can then use the pass to go to Himeji.

The 7-day pass starting on the first Wednesday can get you from Nikko to Kyoto to Kanazawa to Kyoto to Himeji to Kyoto. You could probably work it out so that you could use the JR pass for part of the Koya trip, to Shin Osaka or Osaka stations, e.g.

mrwunrfl

I checked the trip from Nikko to Kanazawa and it is mostly 6 hours or more. Did see one itinerary that was a 5 hour trip. Would require three changes of train. Search on hyperdia.com for Nikko to Kanazawa departing at 18:00 and see the itin for 19:03 to 00:03

mrwunrfl

Oh and your best shot at fall colors might be at Nikko since it is farther north. Should be nice weather. Late the second week of November would be about right in Kyoto, maybe it would be a few days before peak. Maybe the elevation at Koyasan will help with the fall colors at that time.

simone99

Thanks for your informative responses so far-

lilipad - great, I will check out your travel report. Yes, I do understand what you mean by travelling around too much.Do you think it would be possible to leave our luggage in our Tokyo and Kyoto hotels while we take our overnighters to Nikko and Kanazawa - maybe that would make it a little easier? Also, I agree completely about having enough time in Kyoto - I have allowed for five full days (in between day trips and overnighters), and tried to schedule these days during the week to avoid crowds.

I would love to see a Sumo match or training session. Can you recommend a place I can see this?

mrwunrfl & kja - thanks for your suggestion re going from NIkko to Kamazawa (and for looking this up!) - Im just not sure its worth travelling 6 hours when I could get there in 3 from Kyoto. Also, I was thinking of activating my pass once I did my trip to Kanazawa, so that I would use it up until I go to the airport in Osaka. Do you think if I move Kanazawa 1 day forward to Mon, this could work?

kja - have you stayed overnight in Koya-san? Can you please tell me a little about this?

Thanks again for your help, and if you have any other suggestions, please do let me know.

kawa

I stayed overnight in Koyasan at Sekishoin temple last November and it was an absolutely memorable experience. The autumn leaves were stunning with their deep reds and yellows. I would highly recommend staying there at least one night. The rooms at Sekishoin had a private bath/toilet and they serve you "shojin ryori", vegetarian meals. They ask you to attend the prayer service in the morning. It takes awhile to get there from Kyoto with several train changes though. Koyasan was definitely the highlight of my trip.

mrwunrfl

1) Yes, you absolutely can leave your luggage at the hotel while you are going to Kanazawa, or wherever. It certainly does make the traveling easier. Japan also has a luggage delivery service. You could, for example, send your luggage from Tokyo to Kyoto then go to Nikko, traveling very lightly.

2) The Grand Sumo tournament known as Kyushu Bassho is held in Fukuoka in November. It will be on when you are there.

3) kja was recommending going to Kanazawa from Tokyo, not Nikko. And I was recommending going to Kyoto from Nikko, not Tokyo. I think that kja's recommendation is as good as mine, maybe better (you could use a non-JR train for Nikko).

In both cases the trip would be about 4 hours. From Tokyo you can get to Kanazawa with one stop. But you are also eliminating a stop in either Tokyo or Kyoto. That saves a couple hours in the long run considering. The way you have it is less efficient because, the way you have it, you would have to go to Kyoto station and, eventually return from it, just for the Kanazawa trip. It would save on the jumping around to just travel through either the Tokyo stop or the Kyoto stop withougt having to make a 6 hour trip. But maybe you just don't want a 4-hour trip.

4) I am pretty sure that the JR Pass advice I gave is the way to go. Moving Kanazawa forward a day doesn't make sense. Tokyo to Kyoto on the shinkansen costs about 13,500 yen. Kanazawa to Kyoto is about 6900 yen. Kyoto to the airport is only 3500 yen or less.

mrwunrfl

Okay, I see one benefit of stopping in Kyoto before Kanazawa and that would be to drop luggage. There is no such benefit, though, for making the stop in Tokyo after Nikko.

simone99

Ah, I see how I got it wrong - my apologies. So, taking everyone's advise, Ive revised my itinerary:

Fri: Arrive Tokyo 5.30am
Sat: Tokyo
Sun: Tokyo
Mon: Nikko
Tue: NIkko Overnight Tokyo
Wed: Tokyo
Thur: Tokyo
Fri: Bullet train to Kanazawa (activate JR pass)
Sat Kanazawa, Train to Kyoto
Sun: Kyoto
Mon: Kyoto
Tue: Koya-san Overnight Kyoto (MAYBE STAY AT KOYA-SAN)
Wed: Kyoto
Thur: Himeji, Overnight Kyoto (last day I can use JR pass)
Fri: Kyoto
Sat: Kyoto
Sun: Midday flight from Kansai

My only concern is that, in looking at the timetables, I'll only have late afternoon and 3/4's of the next day in Kanazawa. If I add one more night, then I'll have to shave time off either Kyoto or Tokyo - do you think it's worth doing?

kja

Hi, Simone -

Yes, I stayed in Koyasan at Shojoshinin - absolutely wonderful! You can learn more at www.japan-guide.com and you can book a room at some of the temples through japaneseguesthouses.com. If you do decide to stay in Koyasan, I recommend that you walk the cemetery of Okunoin at dusk.

How long to spend in a place really depends on what you want to see and what pace you prefer, but if it helps, I spent about a day and a half in Kanazawa and loved it! I would have liked more time there. With parts of 2 days, you could definitely see some of Kanazawa's wonderful sites (e.g., Kenrokuen). The question of how much time to spend where is always a hard one to answer!

Hope that helps!

twofortheroad

This month's (April) Conde Nast Traveler has a long review with much lodging information on Koyasan.

mrwunrfl

Ok, that is better. Take a look at this document for travel info for Nikko:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-302.pdf
Your travel options include using Tobu Rail, and perhaps their Excursion Ticket is right for you. Tobu is not a JR company so the JR Pass is not useful on it.

After you activate your JR Pass in Tokyo you will board a shinkansen bullet train but will then have to transfer (at Maibara or Kyoto) to a limited express train. The limited express trains do have reserved seats.

Your plan for Kanazawa is pretty good but would be better if you spent two nights. Arrive in the eveniing, have a whole day there, then leave the next morning.

OTOH, the last Thunderbird limited express train from Kanazawa to Kyoto departs at 8:36PM and arrives 2 hours and 9 minutes later.

I am not a big fan of Tokyo so I would move up the trip to Kanazawa to depart Tokyo on Thursday. That would allow staying in Kanazawa for two nights. It would also mean moving Himeji up, of course.

Staying overnight at Koyasan is a great idea.

simone99

Ok, so I have revised my itinerary, so that I can stay overnight at Koya-san, and have a full day and night in Kanazawa.

kawa - the Sekishoin temple sounds amazing - how did you go about booking this?

kja - Thank you for your links - there are so many to choose from! Does one in particular stand out for you?

twofortheroad - I'll keep my eye out for the Conde Nast - maybe that will also stear me in the right direction.

mrwunrfl - thats great advise re. arriving in Kanazawa at night and spending the next day and night there - will do that instead.

I was thinking of doing my day trip to Himeji straight from Koya-san since it takes almost the same amount of time from Kyoto - what do you think? I figure Himeji is only a half day anyway, and we would only be carrying our overnight bag (leaving our luggage in Kyoto).

So, this is how its looking now:

Fri: Arrive Tokyo 5.30am
Sat: Tokyo
Sun: Tokyo
Mon: Nikko
Tue: NIkko Overnight Tokyo
Wed: Tokyo
Thur: Tokyo, Bullet train in afternoon to Kanazawa (activate JR pass)
Fri: Kanazawa
Sat Morning train to Kyoto
Sun: Kyoto
Mon: Kyoto
Tue: Koya-san
Wed: Himeji, Overnight Kyoto
Thur: Kyoto
Fri: Kyoto
Sat: Kyoto
Sun: Midday flight from Kansai

Thank so much to everyone for your wonderful advise - I hope I will be able to help out others on this board as well as you guys do, once Im back!

kja

Hi, Simone - I think your revised plan sounds great! To select a temple for your stay on Mt. Koya, I'd recommend that you do some more research. I was looking for a temple that would accept an English-speaking guest who was traveling alone and that I could book on-line. I also wanted to be as close to Okunoin as possible. Shojoshinin met those criteria and was very favorably reviewed by others who had stayed there. I can't compare it to other temples on Koyasan, but as I mentioned, I thought it was fabulous and would highly recommend it.

mrwunrfl

That's going to be a fun trip!

kawa

Hi Simone,
I faxed the Koyasan Temple Lodging Cooperative for my reservation at Sekishoin. Give them your choice of temples and they will fax you back the prices and meal plan choices. Their fax is 01181736562889(please verify). You also might want to check out japaneseguesthouses.com, good info and book by email. Shojoshoin is right next to Okunoin and then Sekishoin, both good locations. I believe that Shojo has communal bath/toilets so I don't know if that is an issue with you. You have to pay in cash at the tourist info center by Okunoin.

Another neat site to check out is Koyasan Interpreter Guide Club. Neat blurbs with pics of people they've taken on tours. Look for me on the 11/04/06 entry.