Brenda

I don't want to over pay nor do I want to cheat anyone. The guide I am talking to is CITS and we will be driving form Beijing to The Eastern Quig Tombs then to Tianjin staying overnight and spending the day and another night and then to The Great Wall at Balading and back to Beijing over the course of Three days. I am picking up his Hotel bills. Should I also pay for his meals? in addition to paying him $100 a day?

baca

We are going to Beijing in Sept. My brother lives and works there and is arranging for a private driver for our stay when he is working. He said the going rate is about $100 a day. Sounds reasonable.

Michael

Just curious, why don't you do both the tombs and Badaling in a day, then go to Tianjin the next day? <BR> <BR>PS The tombs are not that interesting. And Badaling is definitely not the best place to see the Wall.

Cheri

$100 - $150 a day is what most guide books /websites are quoting. They do not say if this is per person. I will be traveling with 3 others. Is there a limit per car?

Gar

hi there, <BR> <BR>100 US $ a day is toooooo much. For three days You should pay about 150 - 200. And make shure he is speaking english – sometime they just think they do ... <BR>have fun <BR>Gar

Steve

Hello Baca! $100 per day really isn't too bad. We usually pay about $36 per day and this is for only 8 hours and within Beijing city. To go to the Great Wall would be about $66 or so - and this would be for a local guide (non-English speaker). You will have an English speaking driver/guide and this driver will have to spend 3 days (quite a job really). So, if you were here in Beijing you might be able to cut a better deal, but $100 per day with hotel is reasonable. No need to include meals and check to see if tolls are included in the $100. It's not really possible to go to the Eastern Qing Tombs and Badaling on the same day - all three places you are going to are day trips. However, the Ming Tombs and the Badaling section of the Great Wall are possible in one day. The Eastern Qing Tombs are about 3 hours from Beijing. When coming back from Tianjin the Badaling section is closer but it might be worth your while to drive a little further and go to the Mutianyu section of the Great Wall.

Peter Neville-Hadley

An earlier reply mistook the Ming Tombs, near Badaling, for the Eastern Qing, more than 100km east of Beijing and closer to Tianjin. <BR> <BR>These are significantly more interesting than the Ming ones, with the buildings of Cixi's tomb particularly magnificent, and the tomb chamber of the Qianlong Emperor very fine, carved as it is with tens of thousands of characters. <BR> <BR>Perhaps the most atmospheric set is, however, the Western Qing, roughly 120km southwest of the capital, with several unusual features including a semi-circular wall behind the tomb of the Jiaqing Empress at which one can obtain the sonic effects promised at Beijing's Temple of Heaven, but always impossible to achieve due to the crowds. The Western Qing are the least visited of the tomb sites. <BR> <BR>It's not widely known that the ashes of the last emperor, Puyi, are also now buried here in a modern miniature of the traditional tomb arrangement, and for a vast sum you, too, can be buried nearby. <BR> <BR>But to return to the original question, booking any services from overseas is always more expensive than doing it when in Beijing, even from the same company. CITS is likely to be far and away the most expensive, with the exception of the transport desks of some of the five star hotels. If convenience is important, then go with it, but there are vast numbers of travel companies in Beijing looking to provide this sort of service and you'll get a much better deal by turning up and haggling. Never pay the first asked price--it's just a positioning statement. And, incidentally, as a former resident I can assure you that expats rarely have a clue about the real costs of travel in China. <BR> <BR>It's fashionable now to decry Badaling, often because there are so many Chinese there (so why go to China at all?) But all the sites have their drawbacks in terms of crowds or overly attentive 'guides' or insufficiently restrained souvenir sellers, and although some of the others are more atmospheric, Badaling remains the most easy of access, and its scenery is no less beautiful than when it was the only officially open site not so long ago. <BR> <BR>More in next message... <BR> <BR>Peter N-H <BR>Information about Travel in China <BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Peter Neville-Hadley

The convenience comes from the fact that you can take a subway train (Y3) to Jishuitan, walk five minutes east to Deshengmen (or take a taxi there from your hotel for no more than Y20) and board an aircon bus (route 919) leaving every few minutes which will speed you directly to Badaling in just under an hour for Y10, dropping you right by the Wall. This total cost, round trip, of not more than Y60 compares rather well with US$100 (about Y827). <BR> <BR>There's a Great Wall Museum and a 360 degree circle vision movie showing included in the cost of your Wall ticket, so there's really very little need for a guide. It should be noted that guides in China are rarely well informed about their history (although it's not their fault that most of them don't even know this), and their shopping recommendations should be avoided at all costs. Even the sweetest are taking a kick back from the restaurants and souvenir shops to which they guide you, and it's you who will pay for it. <BR> <BR>If you're going to have a car, then go to Jinshanling, and as long as you are reasonably nimble take the three-hour walk along the semi-ruinous Wall to Simatai and get the car to collect you there. (Doing it that way round slightly raises the chances that you'll avoid for a little longer the pestering souvenir sellers who follow you along the Wall.) Visitors are relatively few, and this could also be done on the way back from Tianjin. <BR> <BR>Why go to Tianjin? might be another question worth asking. The architecture of the foreign concessions is interesting, but it's highly unlikely that any guide brought from Beijing will know where each country's concession was, or anything about the history beyond the usual talk of '150 years of humiliation'. The Tianjin Art Museum is also worth a quick visit, not least because of its location in a rather fine French building which was their administrative headquarters. There's also a nice walk through one of China's first industrial areas which houses a tiny and hard to find museum dedicated to the city's earliest metal bashing (the San Tiao Shi Lishi Bowuguan). With a vehicle, however, the most interesting thing to do might be to drive out to the ancient multiple-courtyarded merchant's house about 16km to the west of the city, the Shi Jia Dayuan. <BR> <BR>But again, why take a car and driver? There are ten departures a day from Beijing Station beginning with 7.50am, 09.02am, and 11.00am. These are double-decker walk-on trains, and no advance booking is required--some of the easiest to catch in the whole of China, and which drop you in walking distance of the foreign concessions. Arranging a car in Tianjin to take you out to the Eastern Qing Tombs would be much cheaper. The Shi Jia Da Yu‡n can be reached by public bus, or a taxi to take you there, wait, and bring you back, will only cost Y50 or so (make sure the one-way button is not pushed on the meter). <BR> <BR>One final part...

Peter Neville-Hadley

Finally, if maximum convenience is what concerns you, remember to book your own hotels in Tianjin, which means don't book at all, but just turns up. They are almost empty at any price level, and discounts of up to 50% are easily obtainable on posted rack rates--something your travel agency will usually not pass on to you, or not in their entirety, but add to their profit. You can put your driver and guide up in the most modest room or a dormitory--which is what the travel company will give them if they are paying, and is all they expect. <BR> <BR>Finally, when making negotiations, be aware than all long distance roads are toll roads, and make sure that the vast prices you are paying include such annoyances, which can quickly add up. If you bargain a taxi for the day to take you from Beijing to the Eastern Qing and back--a whole day's trip, you can bargain a Y1.2 per km cab for about Y300, buy lunch for the driver (about Y20), and pay about Y80 in tolls. The tombs have English signage and English leaflets on sale (about Y3) likely to be as good as your guide, unless he or she is really exceptional. <BR> <BR>Sorry that this rambles, but I hope it helps. <BR> <BR>Peter Neville-Hadley <BR>Information about Travel in China <BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html <BR>

Brenda

Peter, <BR> <BR>Thank you for your excellent advice! I will use it. Brenda

Elaine

Peter, I could not access your web site. Do you have a different web address or just the one you included in the previous post? <BR>Elaine