India Questions
 

After years of wanting to visit India DH and I finally put a stake in the ground and bought tickets for our first trip to India, flying into and out of Delhi. We are now trying to flesh out the itinerary for our 2-week trip but just found out that Holi is March 2nd and our flight home is at dawn on March 3rd. I understand that tourists should remain indoors during Holi, especially in Delhi which is where we are scheduled to be. Yikes! And we’ll need to drive to the airport in the middle of the night to catch the flight home.

Our preliminary itinerary is Delhi (2 nights), Agra (1 night), Jaipur (2 nights), Udaipur (2 nights), Jodhpur (2 nights), Jaisalmer (3 nights), Bikaner (1 night) to Delhi (1 night).

We plan to hire a tour company or car with driver and don’t want to travel by train. We are not averse to flying but have concerns about flight delays, lost luggage, and spending time in the airports instead of seeing the country. We understand roads aren’t like our roads in the US and driving can be slow so any input on that aspect would also be welcome.

So our questions:
1. Do you have creative suggestions on how to handle the Holi celebrations since we may be either driving from Bikaner to Delhi or in Delhi during Holi celebrations?
2. Any input on the number of nights in each of the cities we’re planning to visit? Or any towns we should drop or add?
3. I’d like to book some of the hotels myself. Is there a tour company you could recommend that would be able to fill in the gaps after I book the hotels I want? They would need to provide the car, driver, tour guide(s) and some of the hotels.
Thanks for all the great info you seasoned travelers have shared on this forum, we have already learned a lot from your experiences (in fact found out about Holi on this forum).

I would find that way too much on the roads in India. On at least half of your 14 days, you will be in the car anywhere from 5 to 8 hours (or more). Though Delhi to Agra can be as short as 3 hours, on four different AGra/Delhi drives, I spent spent from nearly five to eight hours on the road.

I don't know how you can rearrange anything if you want to do this route except add more days. Maybe consider deleting one of the two far points of your triangle -- Udaipur or Jaisalmer -- and adding extra time elsewhere. Either that or take an overnight train from Jaisalmer to Delhi, skipping Bikaner. Or fly part way.

I don't think Holi will be a huge issue if you are on a major road all day.

I agree, far too much driving. Have you read the trip reports here with descriptions of road travel in India? I understand there are now a few highways - in fact I encountered one, briefly, on my last trip - but in general you will be sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists, carts drawn by bullocks or camels, rickshaws, motorbikes, other cars and overlarge Tata trucks. No one will display lane discipline, everyone will be blowing their horn, and you should definitely not be on the road at night as much of this traffic will not have lights. Plus the road may well not be a full two lanes wide.

Two nights gets you one day. One night might get you two half days, depending on the length of travel. India is an assault on your senses and best taken slowly. You need to cut. Certainly cut Bikaner, and either Udaipur or Jaisalmer.

Don't discount train travel - you may even get to meet Indians not employed in the tourist industry. See https://www.seat61.com/India.htm

If your flight is at dawn I would look for a hotel near the airport for the night before.
https://www.sleepinginairports.net/a...m#airportHotel

Your question #1: Agree, definitely get a hotel prior to your flight from DEL. There are plenty (mostly "chain" brand hotels) next to (but not physically attached)to the airport. Are you planning to tour Delhi that day (March 2) or was it mostly just a travel day for arrival from your previous destination? If the latter, you can go straight to the airport hotel, relax, have dinner, re-pack(-:

You can see those cities but you'll save time by taking one or two domestic flights.Car only would be too much driving.

Your question #3: Why do you want a tour company to handle nearly everything, including some hotels, but then you want to go to the extra time(and sometimes hassle) of booking some, but not all, hotels yourself? It won't save you money. Any good agent can book what you want, and also possibly save you from a mistake. On my last India trip, there were two small, little -known hotels I wanted to stay in. The company booked them both for me, after giving feedback based on previous clients. On another trip, I insisted on booking a hotel against the company's advice. I sure wish I had listened ...

Thanks for the input - we don't want the trip to be a blur, prefer to see fewer towns than run from place to place.

My concern with train travel is the restroom situation - heard of filthy restrooms even in first class. Is that true? I can't handle eastern toilets (knee problem) which I understand are 'cleaner' than the western toilet on each car.

Also heard about delays on trains but maybe that is the lesser of 2 evils given road conditions? Better to fly or take a train?

We heard Jaisalmer is beautiful so it is the reason for going to Jodhpur and Bikaner, which are both on the list only as stopping points to get to and from Jaisalmer since we were trying to go by car.

Any suggestions on a better and more manageable list of towns for our 2 week trip would be greatly appreciated. Really other than Taj Mahal which is a must see (and the only reason for going to North instead of South India for our first trip) we could go just about anywhere. We picked GT as it seems to be The route for first timers and we are not ready for a place like Varanasi.

Originally planned to tour Del that last day but changed mind due to Holi. Love the airport hotel idea thursdaysd and CaliNurse - in fact I just booked one for that last night.

Good input on the tour company verses DIY - do you have a tour company you'd recommend?

I'm with the previous posters that it is a fairly large number of places and that you should drop either Jaisalmer or Udaipur. You could do the del-agra-jaipur-jodhpur-udaipur by hired car and then fly udz-del.

Now I'm from Jaipur and have been all over Rajasthan but no matter how hard you try to put it otherwise, it is a lot of forts, temples and dust and it's same same. Have you considered adding Ranthambore - march is good for sighting tigers.

I agree with AroraV. While I like Jaisalmer, have been there twice, I love Jodhpur, which I didn't anticipate, Jaisalmer being the smaller, my usual preference. I liked Jaiselmer better on my first visit, but by the time I got there again several years later it was in the grip of a tourist boom and becoming less appealing.

So given your almost unworkable pace, I'd axe more than one destination. You might consider flying Delhi to Udaipur on arrival, then working your way back to Delhi with a combination of drivers,trains and flying on the legs there are flights. Udaipur(3) - Jodhpur(4) - Jaipur(2) - Agra(2) - Delhi(2). Something like that.

As mentioned above, to do more than that and actually enjoy yourselves you'd need much more time. If you love India, you'll be back. Don't make the novice mistake of ruining a great trip by spending all your time on the road. If anyplace is, India is a place for a relaxed pace. I cannot emphasize that enough.

Don't worry about Holi, just wear old clothes when you venture out. Or don't venture out is my personal way of coping, fun to watch, less fun to participate. Book a hotel with a nice garden to enjoy.

I agree, more time in fewer places. I loved Jaisalmer, but I haven't been to Udaipur, and I was there the winter of 2001 when there was little tourism in Rajasthan. Unfortunately, you have chosen the most touristed area of India, with the most hassles.

I would put time in Delhi (not one of my favorite places) at the beginning, not the end, to avoid as much of Holi as possible. Plus you are likely to lose sightseeing time to jet lag at the beginning. Two nights for Agra so you can see Fatehpur Sikri and the Keoladeo/Bharatpur Bird Park as well as the fort and the Taj. Maybe a night in the Shekhawati area as a side trip from Jodhpur to get you away from the main tourist trail.

Maybe Delhi (3) - Agra (2) - Jaipur (2) Jodhpur/Shekhawati (3) - Udaipur/day trips (3) - Delhi (1)

For a car and driver look at some of the companies recommended here such as Castle and King and India Panorama. I would be tempted to skip Jaipur and take the night train to Jodhpur, adding a day to Jodhpur and Udaipur.

Rest rooms on trains, and indeed, not only on trains, can be bad, and certainly squats are more hygienic. If you have a long car ride you will likely encounter the same problem. I understand about the knee difficulty, as I have been having similar issues. Without wishing to be too graphic, if you get half undressed you can pee standing up (I assume you are female).

For my time in Rajasthan see:
http://wilhelmswords.com/asia2001/ - Deserted Kingdoms.

I have used Mr. VP Singh, a local tour operator and have been very pleased. He is fair and reliable and can help your planning and hotels too. Contact him at;
Www.legendsandpalaces.com

So with all your good input (Thanks!) we cut out Jaisalmar but now have 2 extra nights – any suggestions on where to spend them?

We want just one night in Agra but could stay longer at another town on our list or maybe add a stop if there is a good one between two towns we’re already visiting.

Below is the new route, all driving except a flight from Jodhpur to Delhi the day before we fly home.

Delhi (2 nights)
Agra (1 night)
Jaipur (2 nights)
Udaipur (3 nights)
Jodhpur /Shekhawati (3 nights)
Jodhpur Fly to Delhi – last night at airport hotel

Question about internal flights – do they allow carry-on luggage the same size as western airlines? We travel with only carry-on size luggage and not checking in will eliminate the risk of lost luggage on our last day before leaving India.

On the day of Holi we would be driving from our Jodhpur hotel to the Jodhpur airport and flying to Delhi. Good guess, Thursdaysd - yes, I am a woman.

Regarding using a travel agent, I only used one on my first trip to India but, especially if you plan on booking some upscale accommodations, I found that the agent offered me better prices than booking directly with the property. The problem may be finding out exactly what you're being charged by the agent if the quote is for a group of bookings or part of an itinerary. But if your tastes run to more modest accommodations, you can just book them yourselves. I've had no problems doing it that way.

The size of carry on luggage should be indicated on the relevant airline website. It may not be uniform.

If you have two extra nights and don't want to add one to Delhi, I would add one to Jodhpur for Shekhawati and one to Udaipur for day trips.

I have visited India twice (ten weeks and six weeks) DIY, but if were doing it today I would at least use an agent for a car and driver. I do not feel that India is as safe as it was, and as a solo female traveler I got tired of dealing with the misogyny of the average Indian driver.

Have you considered seeing more of Agra, like:

https://www.fatehpursikri.gov.in/home.html

Maybe you could cut a day from Udaipur or Jodhpur and add an extra day to Agra.

@jacketwatch - I already suggested that.

We have made 3 trips and spent a total of 4 months in India. Our first trip we arrived in Delhi in the evening and had a driver pick us up to take us to our B&B. The next afternoon the driver took us around sight seeing in Delhi and then delivered us to the train station for our overnight trip to Jaisalmer. We really enjoyed Jaisalmer, and this was an efficient way to get here. So, I am suggesting adding it back in.

As far as toilets on India trains, yes they definitely are not anywhere near Western standards, but it won't kill you to use one. When I take an overnight (or very long trip) on Indian trains I have my little toilet purse (contains toilet paper and Purell) all ready, and I sling it across my chest when I use the toilet. Often there are two different toilets--one squat and one Western--on trains. Whether you'd actually want to sit on that Western toilet is another story...I often prefer a longer skirt (the kind of skirt you'd need anyway in India for modesty) because it is easier to use the toilet and I don't need to worry about my slacks touching the floor in a toilet.

As mentioned above, trains can be very interesting because of the people you meet and have an opportunity to talk with. If you have any sense of adventure at all and are okay with moving out of your comfort zone a teeny bit, give it a try. You will have an opportunity to experience true India outside of the little tourist bubble you will be in with a car and driver on the very typical tourist route you are choosing.

I have been extremely happy with the agency (TGS which is headquartered in Jaipur but covers all of Rahjasthan) we used to provide us with a driver on two different trips to Rajasthan. They will do as little or as much as you want as far as hotel and airline and train booking. I have only used them to book a couple hotels; the rest I did on my own. We also booked all of our own train and plane tickets.

I will also tell you that the one time we were in India on Holi we were told that we could not use the car on Holi. So, an FYI you will definitely want to check this out.

Good perspective, julies. I read some graphic stuff about Indian train restrooms and probably over-reacted. Also appreciate the agency reference, it is just the type of service I've been hoping for.
Since it is our first trip to India we are being very conservative and if we end up loving it we'll go back and venture out more from the tourist bubble. Just dipping the toe in the water this time.
We've decided we'll stay in our hotel during Holi for the day and evening and relax before we catch the flight home the next night.

Also pls. check with an MD as there is usually at least malaria prophylactic meds recommended.

Thanks jacketwatch, health care provider said to wait until 6 weeks before we fly to go in for shots, which surprised me. Thought I read on the forum that earlier is better for shots. I plan to call them and see if I can get Hep A and Hep B shots now, then also typhoid vaccine. Hoping to also get malaria and anti-diarrhea meds.

Have final itinerary nailed down:
Delhi (2) Agra (1), Jaipur (3), Jodhpur (3), Udaipur (3), back to Delhi for hotel internment during Holi :-) then fly home. Much slower paced, feels so much better.

Congratulations on getting the itinerary sorted!

I just pulled up the CDC travel info so I could post the link for you, only to discover it is now a risk area for Zika!!!

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destina...ler/none/india

Suggest a travel clinic as your doctor sounds clueless. If you want Hep A you need to start six months ahead. I use Malarone for malaria with no issues, but some people have trouble with it. Avoid Lariam.

We have used Lariam 3-4 times without any issue and it’s a once per week drug though it is contrindicated in people with a history of epilepsy and mental health problems.

I agree about seeing a travel MD or clinic. They would know of the latest updates and what meds are recommended.

Your current "nailed down" itinerary is perfect because you can fly nonstop between Udaipur to Delhi airport. You probably already know the, but want to make sure you don't think you have to drive back!

The itinerary allows you to make some easy and convenient countryside visits that contrast to the cities. Between Agra and Jaipur you can make a a quick and easy detour to Abhaneri village. It has a stepwell (an archaeology dig was happening while was there) , a small palace (which was in its own way more fun that the huge one in Jaipur) and a small village area. I was there 3 yrs go-- no other tourists. It will be nice way to break the 5 hour or so trip between Agra and Jaipur, and arriving into Jaipur in the evening, you'll still have two full days to explore the town. While in Jaipur, don't miss the Monkey Temple (Galta -ji) on the town's outskirts. It's not on all standard Jaipur itineraries but for me, was a highlight.

In Udaipur, perhaps make a half day to visit to the nearby villages of Delwara, which has a community program and walk. (I think they can arrange pick up from your hotel.) It will be a nice contrast to the city, which is beautiful but super-busy and full of "buy buy buy" pressure disguised under smiles. I didn't do this village visit (was at end of trip and was in a veg-out mood) but met someone who loved it.
http://www.sevamandir.org/walk

Carry-on bag: I use a standard wheeled suitcase which fits overhead, and had no problem with it on any domestic Indian flight--but, as noted above by Thursdaysd, check airline measurement requirements.

Pit stops: If you prefer a "real" (vs outdoors) area, many drivers will first assure that the loo is (at lest visibly) clean. All drivers I've had the good fortune to meet, had a knack for knowing where it's safe to stop, or checked with the facility (hotel/restaurant/fsa station) staff first. Always have tp or tissues and hand sanitizer gel, as JulieS mentions. Even the cleanest looking places (whether Western or hole-in-ground) often lack tp; barsoap, if theree at all, can look as if it has been in place for months.

Tour company possibilities; Among the proven good travel planning companies mentioned here, I've used Indian Panorama, based in India (as area all the above) for all recent trips (found them yrs ago after a bunch of dud agents.) The company has experienced travel planners, but I (and others on Fodors) have specifically used [email protected] He and other good agents will and can explain comparative advantages/disadvantages of having a company book all or just some hotels (as you discussed in your first post). If you have your heart set on particular places, any agent can book those for you, but the hotel pros and cons should be discussed.

If you decide to work with an agent, best to know in advance what your budget for hotels or homestays is. There's wide price price variation in India, and it will save you time to have a realistic idea in advance.

Good luck!!! You have a great approach to this first trip!

You are all so amazingly helpful! CaliNurse, thanks for all the extra info and yes, DH came up with plan to fly back from Udaipur to Delhi. Thursdaysd and jacketwatch, good healthcare tips but now with Zika and reading your post on the assault makes me wish we hadn't bought air fare! When we cancelled plans the last time it was because of gang rapes but we hadn't paid for anything. Now I feel like cancelling again but this time I'll lose money on air fare. Better to lose money though than to get Zika or get beat up :-(

Can't help with the Zika issue, although if you're not pregnant/planning to get pregnant I'm not sure how big a problem it is. I was surprised to see it had arrived in India.

On the assault issue, if you have a car and driver from a reputable firm, don't wander into dodgy or apparently empty areas, and are off the streets later in the evening I think you will be OK.

2butterflies, I'd be very, very surprised if you face anything at all dicey. Do you let down your guard anywhere in the world? Read several of the numerous Fodors India trip reports and seeif there are similar reports of danger.
I never have, in numerous trips to India, felt unsafe situation. I don't have my head in the sand--takes some awareness of your surroundings, as is the case anywhere in the world. I usually travel solo. Of course each person's experiences and fears differ, and life is unpredictable, but..imho it would be big mistake to cancel the trip, at least for your stated reasons.

May I ask where you live? Do you feel 100% safe there? Is there any crime you're aware of?

Zika is not a problem unless you're of childbearing age and intending to become, or are now, pregnant. There is a very slight and afaik unproven tie-in with infected people getting Guillaume Barre syndrome. There are many parts of the world --eg the Caribbean--to avoid in your travels, if it is worrying you.

If you need more opinions about canceling your trip, perhaps post your concerns as a new thread, and see how others who've been to India respond.

Bad things happen anywhere. By using common sense measures you should be able to avoid putting yourself in risky circumstances.

I would be more concerned about health. The sanitation is sub standard there so be careful. You may want to consider going all veg while you are there and use common sense in this area too so like only bottled water, eating at reputable places, etc. and getting expert medical advice from a travel clinic.

Also we always buy travel insurance just in case.

All excellent and true points, above. Thanks JW.

It is so true that incidents happen everywhere (even here in the good ol US of A) and I do like your attitude, all three of you have made such valid points. In past travels we have taken appropriate precautions, eg. in Barcelona protected valuables from pickpockets (whom we never encountered but were warned of), etc.

In thinking this over after reading what you've said I realize that I am not cancelling. CaliNurse you are so brave to travel solo! By now you guys have figured out that I am a big chicken, have traveled a fair amount but never ventured east of Europe. I do have DH with me and he is very smart and so aware of his surroundings. I'm too old to worry about pregnancy so Zika won't matter - read about it after I posted.

I will turn my attention to getting the appropriate health precautions. JW - sorry for my ignorance but why do you buy travel insurance?

Hurray for you, 2Butterflies, for not canceling!! As written earlier, I'm confident you'll have a great and safe trip! You driver from any of the reputable agencies will be protective and concerned about your well-being, especially as you and DH get to know that person over the course of your trip. Speaking of drivers, pay the additional and request a Toyota Innova SUV instead of a sedan. You'll feel safer (which means a lot when you see the crazy driving) and be more comfortable in that vehicle. Despite traveling alone in the last few years, I usually request the larger vehicle despite not needing the extra room.

I hope JW doesnt mind if I also reply to your very good question,
ALWAYS buy travel insurance. LIFE is unpredictable! What if you have to cancel your trip and have already paid the the in full or partially nonrefundable plane fare, or travel company deposit? What if while you are ON the trip, you or DH gets sick or injured and can't continue the trip? What if you have to get home suddenly from India due to illness, or if one of your family members at home gets sick? etc etc.

https://www.insuremytrip.com/insuring-your-trip/
The service reps are very good at answering questions, and there are good FAQs online too. I've bought trip insurance from them for yrs--they'll help you find what you need, and explain it.

I and many of us buy travel insurance just in case things happen and they do. For example in 2013 we went to India and stopped in Bangkok for a week on the way home. However my wife was feeling ill when we left India and had to be hospitalized for 5 days in Thailand with some horrid GI bug. Our travel insurance covered the entire bill of nearly 6k.

Another time we were delayed leaving Madrid to come home due to super storm Sandy and UAL offered a return 5 days past our original date. We could not do that for work reasons so I bought separate return tickets and our insurance covered that 100%.

Then there are issues of coverage for lost luggage, travel delays and so on and you can even get emergency evacuation insurance so suppose you are sick in a place with substandard health care. You can get out.

Most people including me at one time assumed all will go well but sometimes things happen and for me its best to be prepared.

I heartily agree with CaliNurse to cover the what ifs. In addition to the website she provided try calling Allianz. We got our insurance thru them for the Bangkok trip and they were great about helping us.

I have a slightly different take on travel insurance. The question is not <i>whether</i> you need insurance, but <i>what</i> insurance.

I think that <i>everyone</i>, even the young and healthy, needs medical and medical evacuation AND repatriation. (Evacuation gets you to the nearest "suitable" hospital, repatriation gets you home - read the fine print.)

However, not everyone needs trip cancellation, interruption or baggage coverage. I expect my homeowners insurance to cover the few possessions I take with me. Unless I am taking an expensive tour that does not include insurance or a cruise (neither which have happened yet) I self insure my pre-paid expenses, which are usually just airfare, some train tickets, and maybe a couple of hotels.

However, I travel solo, I have no elderly relatives at home, and I am retired. YMMV.

I use Seven Corners. Besides insuremytrip you could check squaremouth.

That’s a good point.

Thank you.

Duh, who knew! Been on so many trips without insurance, guess we've just been darn lucky. The one time in Germany I had to see a doc he wouldn't let us pay, we had to insist - what a Gem he was!

Am definitely buying insurance for this trip - that will add a warm fuzzy as we venture into the unknown yonder.

Good input on the bigger vehicle, DH is rather tall so he will be really happy with your idea :-)

How would I ever have known all this without all of your good advice! I've been a TA contributor for years to help travelers but what you guys do here is far beyond.

Kathy--

We have been rather lax (meaning that we have never bought any other than the coverage I describe below) about insurance since we are like you and aren't paying up-front for a lot of expensive stuff like tours or cruises, and we don't have everything booked ahead of time. Our regular health insurance covers 80% of medical expenses outside the country, and we have a back-up American Express travel insurance policy we've had for years that we renew annually. Now, when reading our health insurance policy during open enrollment I see that starting next year they will only cover ground ambulance (not helicopter or air) when outside the US.

It is probably time for us to take a thorough look at our AE policy (difficult to so since they are not at all customer friendly about disclosing the exact details of the policy). With Seven Corners can we just pick the limited benefits we want without having to buy a complete package that involves everything? Basically we'd be like you and just want evacuation and repatriation coverage. And, maybe medical coverage for the 20% our normal health insurance doesn't cover. I know in the US that 20% could potentially be a horrific cost. In other countries I don't know since most of them do tend to contain their costs much better than we do in the US.