Rinda1

As I mentioned in a previous post, because of our ages we will probably only be able to go to India once. Cali nurse recommended that I use Indian Panorama. From what I understand about some of the other recommended tours, many specialize in the North but Indian Panorama does both North and South.
These are Faith's of Indian Panorama's recommendations
Day 1-3 Delhi -Hotel in Karat Bagh-Clark International ( 1st day rest, 1 day old Delhi, 1 day new Delhi- overnight train to Varanasi
Day 4 Varanasi - Hotel Meradon Grand Sightsee Sarnath & Ganges for the Arati.
Day 5 Varanasi dawn (grown) boatride( is there something that we would see on the dawn boatride that we would not have seen the evening before?) and late afternoon flight to Khajuraho. Evening sound and light show. (Any thoughts on the light show?) Hotel the Ramada
Day 6 East & West Temples- evening folk dance performance.(Any thoughts on the folk dance performance) The reason I am asking about the sound and light show and the folk dances it that this is a jam packed itinerary and we might need to rest some evening.
Day 7 Morning drive to Orcha ( we did not request seeing Orchha nor Gwalior. Are they here because we need to drive through them to get to Agra?) Visit Orccha Hotel Amar Mahal

Rinda1

continuation of itinerary- I ran out of space.
Day 8 Drive via Gwalior to Agra Hotel- Howard Park Plaza
Day 9 See Taj Mahal in a.m Agra Fort in afternoon drive to Jaipur via Fatehpur Sikri. Hotel Shahpura House Sight see Amber Fort and Jaipur City ( We will need to extend another day in Jaipur for business)
Day 10 Overnight sleeper train to Udaipur
Day 11 Boat ride Lake Pichola Hotel Jagat Niwas Palace
Day 12 Excursion to Ranakpur Jain Temple and evening flight to Mumbai. The Garden Hotel in Mumbai
Day 13 Sightseeing in Mumbai
Day 14 6am Express train to Aurangabad and visit Ellora Caves. Hotel The Meadows
Day 15 Day excursion Ajanta Caves return to Aurangabad
Day 16 Fly back to Mumbai and connect to Chennai Hotel Benz Park Sightsee Chennai
Day 17 Drive down coast via the Cultural Center of Dakshinachitra (showcasing reconstucted house from around the South??? along with working artisans and craftspeople. Arrive Mahabbalipuram in late afternoon. Hotel Sea Breeze
Day 18 Visit 7th century rock cut temples- Shore Temple, Five Rathas and Arjunas Penance
Day 19 Drive to Kanchipuran for temples and silk weaving center?? Drive back to Chennai and fly to Delhi to connect to home.
I can add a day or two at various places where should I add? What should I delete? Thank you so much for your help as I am an Indian newbie.

indianapearl

Gwalior, Khajuraho, and Orchha are both south and east of Delhi and Agra. Since you have a limited amount of time, fly to Varanasi, then fly back to Delhi and dip into Rajasthan by plane from there. Skip Gwalior, Khajuraho, and Orchha -- interesting, but given your limited time, I'd skip them. We went to all three and enjoyed them, but spent a lot of time on the road the last week of our trip. Try to make the airlines your friend.

I think your travel agent is running you ragged.

Jaya

Day 9: driving from Agra to Jaipur is LONG - take an express train.
Day 11: sometimes Lake Pichola is a mud puddle due to poor rains.
Day 16: how are you getting from Mumbai to Chennai? They're quite far apart.

Driving more than about 2 hours (in my opinion) on Indian roads is exhausting. The exception may be on the few highways, but generally you are on poor quality paved roads and your bones will be jarred by the time you get to your destination. If you will be in one of the luxury tour buses, it may be less traumatic, but I haven't travelled in them so I don't know first hand.
Trains and planes are essential.

I have not been to all of the places on your itinerary, but you should check on how much walking, stair climbing is involved if that is an issue.

If possible, include some museums. Jaipur has a City Museum which was very interesting, although it's been several years.

I also think that your itinerary is overloaded and rushed.

jules39

I too think your itinerary is way too rushed. The way it looks now I feel stressed!! We just spent 22 days in India & I won't not have pushed our schedule any harder than we did. Click on my name & you should find our trip report & itin. India needs you to slow down more than any other place I have visited. You will come away loving it much more if you see less places at a slower pace. Do not worry that this will (may be) your only trip think of the things you really want to cover & include them & then let a few other spots get into the mix. India is incredible but it really needs the traveller to slow down & take it in otherwise it could be a nightmare. Where do you think your interests really lie?

ramindia

Dear rinda1
udaipur lake is dry we are wating for rain yestrday we got very good rain in jaipur and now also raning here but not in udaipur and you cannout do Boat ride in Lake Pichola
I also think that your itinerary is overloaded and rushed.

Ramesh Meena

CaliNurse

Did you tell Faith that you want to see ALL this? Sounds like there needs to be clear communication on both sides of how important it is to you to see all this. You may have conveyed that as this is your only trip, you want to pack in as much as possible--vs seeing less and relaxing more.
You can ask that some destinations be cut out (did you specifically say you want to go to the South--i.e. Chennai?Mumbai?) Why not give feedback that on reconsideration, you would like to have more r and r time.
Give exactly the same info about what you want--destinations and budget, all those places in the North and the South--to a few other agencies/tour planners (many are mentioned on Fodors)and see what they come up with--so you can compare apples to apples.

I think it all boils down to you accepting what people said in your first post: while it is understandable that you want to pack in as much as possible, it might be better to accept that quality over quantity is the way to go.

Rinda1

Faith added two locations (Orchha and Gwalior) but I see they are on the way from Khajuraho to Agra. Can we fly from Khajuraho to Agra? We did not ask for Mumbai nor Chennai, but we did ask for Ajanta and Ellora and I think we need to go to Mumbai and Chennai to get there. We loved Cambodia--Ankhor Wat and the the different surrounding groups. Ajanta and Ellora sound even better although, if one is recommended over the other, I suppose we could drop one. You mention relaxing. Other than relaxing at the end of the day, that is not one of our goals. We vacation hard, and would not take a day off just for relaxing unless it were physically necessary. We do prefer not to do too many things in one day. At our age we need to do what we can do and relax at home. We are still extremely healthy and can walk all day and climb stairs. Not with the spring in our step of old, but we can do it. We might drop things like folk dance programs and rest for the evening. While it is wonderful to see them in the backdrop of the country, it is something that we can see in LA. I appreciate the continued commentary.

Jaya

Folk dancing may be interesting for 5 minutes, because that's what it is, folk dancing. It's colorful but often the dancers and musicians are not of a high caliber because there is no formal training.

If you are in LA, you stand a much better chance of seeing a professional Indian dance performance. There are classical dance styles from difference regions of India.

Marija

I'm certainly know very little about Indian travel, having been there only once, but this itinerary doesn't seem well thought out. (We covered much of the same ground in the North.) I really think you should consider some other agents. For example Day 9 as described is impossible to do in one day. Perhaps that's meant for two days. Even seeing the Taj Mahal, Agra Fort, Fatehpur Sikri and driving Agra to Jaipur on the same day is insane.

We went to Khajuraho since it was a convenient stop from Varanasi to Bandhavgarh park. It was interesting, particularly since we didn't go out of our way. However, do read Cicerone's commentary on Khajuraho:

"As you will be in south India already, I would urge you to cut out Khajuraho so you can add the time to other parts of the northern itin and/or include Jodhpur. South India has far better examples of temple carving which are also still living religious sites, IMO, than those at Khajuraho, which is mostly known because of the erotic carvings on some of the temples and because it is one of the few temple areas in north India which survived the Mughal invasion intact. (The temples appear to be unused to me today, however. I also think they show up on tours because so many more tourists go to north India than to south India.) Khajuraho is rather hard to get to, IMO as there is no nearby train station and so flying or a somewhat uncomfortable road trip is involved. You seem to have chosen a train from Agra to Jhansi and then a longish bumpy drive to Khahuraho, and then I am guessing flying to Delhi. All rather involved. However going to that trouble really is not necessary, as you can make an easy day trip from Chennai to Mahabillipuram (2 hours), Kanchipuram (2 hours) and other areas nearby like Chidambaram. The drive to these places in most cases is delightful, along the very scenic (and well-maintined) east coast shore road. If you have the time and inclination, you could also fly, train or drive to Madurai. The temple complexes in the south are much more interesting and more important both from both a religious and historical/art context than Khajuharho. (Many of them are UNESCO sights as well.)

The exception to cutting out Khajurhao would be if you were going to attend the dance festival there, which is normally held in Feb/March. Otherwise, I would skip it. (There is also a dance festival in Chennai and Mahabillipuram in Dec/Jan and in Chidambaram in Feb/March)."

We were amazed by the Ajanta and Ellora caves and I have no regrets about going out of our way to see them. It's unfortunate that the non-stop flights from Udaipur to Aurangabad seem to have been discontinued.

You might find it useful to read some of the trip reports on this site and get a better idea of a reasonable pace. I'm for seeing as much as you can, but I don't think this itinerary was put together with any thought.

Rinda1

Thank you Marija for your thoughts. We are going in January and you are right, the trip is not well thought out as we have just started.
We particularly enjoy temple complexes and what we understand of the Ajanta and Ellora caves. We understand that temples and carvings are of better quality and of more historical interest in the South. My husband has his heart set on Khajuraho (it's a man thing) so I need to keep it in the itinerary.
We are in the process of booking tickets. We are using our frequent flyer miles in order to go business class and those seats book up so fast we are doing it now. It looks as though we are arriving in Delhi on Jan 2 and leaving Mumbai on Jan 24. That leaves 21 days for touring from Jan 3 to Jan 23.

shelleyk

I am starting the process of planning a trip to southern India and Sri Lanka, so I am interested in your itinerary for the south. Several years ago when we toured the northern part of India, we visited Khajaraho. It is a UNESCO world heritage site and the sculptings on the temples are not only memorable but are fabulously preserved and very well done. I don't think you will be disappointed if you keep Khajaraho in your itinerary.

CaliNurse

RInda, it may help readers if you put spaces on the itinerary for the dates, instead of posting it as one big paragraph. This may be contributing to the chaotic feel.

Since you describe yourself as above--not needing to relax, and instead pack in as much as possible--i can see why the itinerary is set as it is to give maximum sightseeing in compacted time.
Chennai must've been added due to its closeness to the famous sites at Mahaballipuram, based on your interest in temple /historic complexes.

The lakes will have water--Ramindia must've assumed you were going at in summer.

I dont think anyone is mentioning the need to slow down based on the "spring in your step"- rather, based on the experince of traveling in India, how chaotic and unpredictable it can be, and the awesome mind=boggling "overwhelmingness"

Rinda1

Cali-(where are you in California?) Thanks for the idea as to the way to post the itinerary. I will do it that way when I get it refined more. I am taking your suggestion and getting ideas from other tour operators. I emailed AJAY at Yatrick. I was going to email Ramesh, but it looks like he only does North India, although I sure would love to have him as I take a day off for business and look around the semi precious stone places in Jaipur. We will take yours and others suggestions and try and slow it down by not packing so much in a day and flying when possible.

Marija

There's an easy one hour flight from Mumbai to Aurangabad, leaving frequently. If you take a train I think you leave around midnight and arrive somewhere between 4 AM and 7 AM depending on the train. Exploring the caves after a restless night is just a poor idea, regardless of the initial springiness in your step. Did the agent discuss a flight as a possibility? If not, junk the agent.

CaliNurse

Marija, sounds like you are assuming it is an overnight train from Mumbai to Aurangabad, but i don't think so, from how the itin reads.

There is a 6 am departure from Mumbai to Aurangabad which gets in early afternoon to Aurangabad. Then two days later the itin has them taking the flight back to Mumbai (and then a connecting flight to Chennai). It makes sense, as it will give Rinda and husband a good chance to experience Indian railways--always an adventure--not just the train, but the train stations!!

Personally, i try to avoid flying--you see so much more from a car. But i understand the need for traversing big distance in limited time, and the Indian local planes on Jet (or Kingfisher, which i havent yet tried) are terrific.

Rinda, whomever you decide to go with with, for the driving part of the journey, request an Innova or similar. It will cost more than a sedan, but is worth soooo much more in terms of comfort and what you will see.
YOu are smart to get several quotes and suggestions re itinerary, hotels. etc. Again, be sure you are expressing your needs and interests and sepcific "must sees" in the same way to all. Get the estimated price EARLY in the process.
I've had some unfortunate agent experiences , where they dont give the price. Of course, it can be modified laetr based on trip modifications. After discussions, plans, supposedly "getting to know" the travel planner via email, they give the price, or say they dont yet know, and...bam!!! Youve wasted precious time. Sadly, tour planners like this exist in India (and elsewhere)
Yes, I am in California--Bay Area. If you are in the area, let me know--there are other Indiaphiles here and we could meet up!!(-;

Rinda1

CaliNurse, I am in SoCal, but I have a jewelry business and sell on weekends at street fairs and art shows. As it happens we are leaving tomorrow for the Bay area. We will be in Mill Valley Tuesday evening til Thursday noon, then go to the Garlic Festival in Gilroy. On Monday the July 26 we are going to Hayward to be with a son for the week and doing a street fair in Fremont. By chance do you live anywhere close? Our cell is 949/683-3394

Marija

Cali, you're right. It does say 6AM train which under ideal conditions puts them in Aurangabad at 1:30 PM. Then it's an hour car/bus ride to Ellora. Not my idea of a good day. I don't think they're lacking in train experience since they're already taking overnight trains to Varanasi and Udaipur.

lcuy

I think you need to get a good map before you commit to this travel agent. There is absolutely no reason to tie a visit to Chennai in with Mumbai or the caves at Ajanta and Ellora.

Mumbai is on the west coast at about the mid point in India. The caves are about 400 mile NE of Mumbai. Chennai is on the east coast in the bottom quarter of India, probably 1500 miles southeast of Mumbai. There are plenty of interesting spots much closer to Mumbai.

On top of that, I travelled from Chennai to Pondicherry last year. I was not all that impressed with Mamallapuram (sp) and would have been a LOT less impressed if I'd made a special trip from Mumbai to see it! As it was, it was right off the road between the two cities.

dogster

This itinerary is loony tunes. Get a new agent, right now. It's so far off base as to not even be worth thinking through.