Cyansiam

Annhig - I think Varanasi has to be experienced but I certainly would not go out of the way to see it or spend more than 2 nights at the most. From what I have read you either love it or hate it, perhaps my expectations were too high and I pushed for it to be included! A better guide may have helped.

Kathie - perhaps the tourism has changed it...I think it may be a good idea to get to Bhutan before the same happens there!

Thursdaysd - wait for the road reports on Shimla, I think you would love those as well.

Ileen - that's a difficult one, we have bought a lot of items in India that are all cherished, many have special memories attached.

thursdaysd

I also thoroughly enjoyed Varanasi, although admittedly I was there in 2001. Also, I stayed on the river, which made everything more accessible. But then, I also enjoyed Sarnath, so it is really a YMMV issue. It is certainly true that I was appalled by how polluted the Ganges was, but then, I had no intention of actually getting in it.

I don't think you have to worry quite so much about tourism changing Bhutan, as the numbers are strictly limited.

Kathie

Where did you get the recommendation for Chumbi Mountain Retreat, the place with the bed bugs? I make as much note of where I got recommendations for bad places as I do for where I get recommendations for good places. Oh, and once you've picked up bed bugs, you may have carried them with you to other hotels.

While there were Indian tourists there when we ere there, there were not many visitors at all, A few Indian couples and one western couple at Gangtok, two western couple at Pelling and a number of Indian couples. I was told that Sikkim is a desirable honeymoon destination for Indian couples.

Anyway, I had thoughts os returning to Sikkim, but your report makes me think it would be a bad idea.

annhig

It is certainly true that I was appalled by how polluted the Ganges was, but then, I had no intention of actually getting in it.>>

my Grandad actually swam in it [for 26 miles] and had a medal to prove it.

CaliNurse

I first visited Varanasi in 1971.(LOL, i'm probably close to your grandfather's age, Annhig1 ) It was special. I knew the Ganges is polluted now...it was the town itself that was a surprise. Surprised by piles of trash? In India? Yes! Worse here than any other Indian town I've seen in recent memory. The alleys near the river, even the downtown area were gross--and that's a euphemism. Cleanliness next to Godliness?Not in today's Varanasi. That said, Taj Nadesar is quite far from the river, which means sightseeing is sure to be a major traffic-ridden schlep. Staying close to or on the river much better, to avoid any more of downtown area than absolutely necessary.
Agree, if time short, imho trip to Sarnath not a "must."I thought it would have a quite, contemplative air, but the hordes of tourists (me included!) affected the atmosphere.We took a tuktuk over very bumpy dusty road whose construction has hopefully finished by now.

Enjoying your report and learning much, Cyan

annhig

I first visited Varanasi in 1971.(LOL, i'm probably close to your grandfather's age, Annhig1 )>>

Calinurse - my Grandad was in the indian police pre WW2 so I doubt it, unless you are well over 100. I think that his swimming feat was sometime between 1930 and 1936 [when he, my gran and my mum came back to the UK] though i can't be sure.

Thanks for your reminiscences of Varanasi, BTW.

Cyansiam

Chumbi was recommended by Louise due to her staying there a year or so ago, I did check it out online and the reports on Tripadvisor were good but strangely since I gave my report there are now others giving bad reviews. This is a hotel which has not been maintained and has poor management plus the build quality not good to start with but with good service, good food and upkeep it would been perfectly acceptable.

I would be interested to read another new report for Sikkim as I am aware that I am not easily pleased hotel wise and that I found the sightseeing poor.

Varanasi - the river was actually not as dirty as expected, we were told it is being cleaned up. They do have concrete sheds all over the city which are for the rubbish to be dumped but these are full of cows and dogs eating so rubbish is spread everywhere. It is not just the rubbish it is the smell of human urine especially in the lanes, you spend most of the time looking at where you are walking and holding your nose. Thailand smells of either rubbish, stale water or the awful dried fish sauce they use to cook with, India has a different smell usually of the spices and occasionally rubbish but not Varanasi or Amritsar.

Traffic was not an real issue, we stayed at Nadesar due to no drinking or smoking close to the river but for anyone wanting luxury overlooking the river there is a new hotel - Clarkes, looked very nice!

Kathie

Well, if you were looking for 5 star hotels, Sikkim wasn't the place to go. Nor should you go to Bhutan unless you are willing to spring for the Amans or Uma hotels. The descriptions of the hotels in Bhutan sounded like they were more basic than the Elgins where we stayed in Sikkim. Louise usually gives great advice, so clearly that hotel had changed since she was there. I don't find most reviews on Trip Advertiser to be credible.

I wonder if you were looking for something different from what Sikkim has to offer. We loved the many monasteries we visited. We were there, really, to have an experience of Tibetan Buddhism.

CaliNurse

Annhig, great story about your grandfather. Knowing that, I'd say you must visit Varanasi--which was then probably more often called Benares--if possible on any future trip in that "corner" of India.
Amazing to think how the world has changed, isn't it!!??

Re Varanasi, i am not saying not to go--I meant, expectations should be realistic. wouldnt go out of my way from an itinerary, just to see it (sort of like the taj mahal if you're not already "in the neighborhood." or in easy access via a direct flight/

Tripadvisor, you have to read carefully, and see how many reviews someone has written, and what country they are from. (there was recent post on a different thread about the "fussiest" nationality of tripadvisor writers, lol).I there's is a bandwagon effect. S o if people see that everyone has given a place five stars, and that they all supposedly had great service..they will give it five stars, wondering if it is something about them personally, vs the hotel. I mean, who wants to think they are the only one with mediocre service...nver knowing that others were hesitant to say they too had only fair service.
So bravo to you Cyan for writing a realistic review!!! Once you did, others may have felt more comfortable giving honest opinions. This theory is not scientifically proven by any means...just my hunch about the way Tripadvisor reviews go in general, and why they sometimes seem to be in waves of particular "star levels." There are loads of threads on FF an elsewhere, on this topic, so i won't repeat.

Thank you for the mention of the new Clarks Hotel. A well-known mid-priced Indian "brand" hotel--good to know there'sa branch in VNS. . Many visitors do however prefer to be close to or at the edge of the Ganges (not the Varuna) which Clarks is not.

Cyansiam

CaliNurse....I have just checked and it is not a Clarkes hotel (more bad info from the guide) it is the WelcomHeritage Jukaso Ganges, right on the river and it looked lovely from the outside.

As you correctly say Tripadvisor reviews are not to be taken as read, I have to deal with guests and their consequent reviews every day so pretty easy to read between the lines, we have often thought about starting a blog on this.

Kathie...This is why I would hope someone else can give a recent opinion of Sikkim, everyone looks for different experiences and as you say if looking for 5 star hotels then don't go. We went to experience the landscapes, views and culture, I was not expecting 5 star just cleanliness. Bhutan would be mainly Amans or Umas for us and that is why we had to remove it from this trip, it was costing more than the whole of the India section lol!

CaliNurse

Oh yes, Cyan, great looking hot! II tried to get a room at that hotel but they were fully booked. They had recently opened after remodeling the building whenI enquired, about 2.5 yrs ago. I've stayed at another WelcomHeritage hotel (Pragpur, Jude's Court) --very well-known chain for respecting the heritage of the building that's ben converted to a hotel.
Are you in the hotel business yourself?

It's interesting, there's that saying about garage sales, one man's trash is another's treasure. A friend just returned from Kathmandu, Nepal--which i recall as a beautiful, serene place--and she just about laughed in my face at my inaccurate (by today's standards) opinion. I too am curious now about Sikkim, as it has been on "the list" along w tih about ten other places in that general corner of the world!

Cyansiam

Louise advised against Kathmandu as it was on my list for this trip, suggested Bhutan instead but I would still like to go to Nepal.

Not in the hotel business but holiday and long term rentals in Phuket as is my friend so we often spend Friday nights over dinner unwinding with the week's problems from the guests and our thai staff!

Kathie

Save Nepal for another trip. That was good advice from Louise. Cali, when were you in Kathmandu that it was serene? I was first there in 1994 and while it was by no means serene, in contrast to 2008, I guess it was quieter. Have you read Shopping for Buddhas? I highly recommend it.

I haven't read a more recent Sikkim trip report. Of course, dogster had a long piece on Sikkim (and Glenburn) years ago now. I also wonder whether you were in Sikkim at an especially busy time of the year. We are there in November.

CaliNurse

Kathie, i was in Nepal 1971!! ! Ahhh...the good ol' days (true backpacker travel). The Soaltee was there (an Oberoi then, if recall correctly) and I, passing by, looked longingly at it, doubting I'd ever be able to stay in such a place!! We bicycled between Kathmandu and the nearby Tibetan village area. My Nepalese friend recently laughed at that--that bicycle path is apparently long gone. Who knows where 45 yrs went? Very naive of me to think that the country wouldnt have changed tremendously!!

Cyan,I've heard similar stories from my sister, who has a few vacation rentals. I "feel your pain."

Cyansiam

Amritsar

18th May - Feeling much better and after a good breakfast we left for the 12.15 flight to Amritsar. Good flight on Air India, plenty of room on the Dreamliner.

Met and escorted to the Hyatt, shown to a non smoking room so another move to smoking room which was to far to small to smoke in, no opening windows so upgraded to suite with a separate sitting room, this was now getting boring!

Hyatt is a modern hotel although showing wear and tear, reasonably clean if you do not look too closely and food was okay. Staff are friendly and helpful and it has the advantage of a Shopping Mall next door so we actually ate there for two nights. There is also a nice little shop in the hotel selling crafts. The pool area looked nice but it was too hot to sunbathe.

After a quick freshen up we decided to do the sunset at the India-Pakistan Border. The drive was about an hour and we were told we could not take anything with us except a camera and iPad. We had to walk quite a distance accompanied by the guide who got us through a few checkpoints and then had to leave us. At the seating area we were directed to a narrow strip of concrete steps that were already quite full and we had over an hour to wait until the ceremony. We had no water as we stupidly thought this was not allowed and no money to buy some as we took him literally when he said nothing allowed. The heat was unbearable especially as it we were starting to get crushed so I left and went out to the back of the stands. This is where the soldiers are practising and they allowed me to sit and watch them, use their water to cool down and then took me back a few minutes before the start. This meant I was on the road level where you can see both sides of the ceremony so much better photos and much more enjoyable although you have the watch the soldiers who are controlling the crowds, one of the females was actually hitting some of the spectators to make them do as she wanted.

Returned to the hotel and went for food and shopping at the Mall, there was another Royal Enfield shop and also a Marks and Spencers!

Next morning after breakfast we were taken to the Golden Temple. There are a lot of roadworks in the centre so we had to walk quite a way in, again was very crowded with motorbikes and cars so you need to be watch your belongings.

The temple lived up to expectations although there was a huge queue to see inside.

On the walk back we then went to Jallianwalla Bagh. Very interesting and we did feel we should not advertise the fact that we were English although we were asked to have our photo taken with the Indian tourists.

I had asked to then explore the bazaar lanes around the temple for crafts, juttis etc but we were taken back to the car and driven to the usual crap shops. Eventually got to a great shop selling juttis but this was not in the bazaar lanes! We then asked to go somewhere for lunch and drink but ended up in a frightful place that is supposedly very well known as the best restaurant in Amritsar! So back to the hotel to rest before going back to the Golden Temple for sunset.

It is well worth attending the evening ceremony, we stayed a couple of hours and atmosphere is great. Everyone wanted photos with us and were very friendly. Also all the shops were open around the temple at this time.

I also think it is better to go very early in the morning and I was annoyed that the guide did not suggest this, he basically just asked what time we wanted to go rather than advising.

As we were due to leave tomorrow morning to drive to Shimla, I had been asking the guide what time we were being picked up. All day he had been saying he would speak to his boss and let me know but then on the drive back to the hotel he informed me that they did not know anything about it and there was no one to take us to Shimla. Eventually one of the Delhi staff rang to say we should leave around 7 am as it was a 7 hour journey as opposed to the 5 and half hours I expected.

The Golden Temple is obviously worth seeing plus the border ceremony, 2 nights was the perfect amount of time and the Hyatt is currently the best hotel there. Amritsar itself has a lot of roadworks especially in the centre, also quite dusty and dirty plus that horrible smell again in places.

thursdaysd

"I had asked to then explore the bazaar lanes around the temple for crafts, juttis etc but..."

In my experience, if you want an Indian driver to go somewhere specific that is not on his usual route you need to be VERY insistent. I think this is especially true if you are female.

"also quite dusty and dirty plus that horrible smell again in places."

Again, that is normal for India. Not sure what you expected.

Cyansiam

It was a guide not a driver and I was very insistent, trust me!

It was far more dusty and dirty than normal mainly probably due to the roadworks as said, and I have not experienced the smell of human urine so often in any of the other places we have been in India except for Varanasi.

Shimla is littered with signs stating "No urinating or you will be fined" so I presume it is becoming a problem.

thursdaysd

It is the signs that are unusual, not the smell. If you walk round most any Indian town, rather than driving, you will see men urinating on the sidewalks. Apparently they think they become invisible. I walked along the edge of the road rather than on the pavement, and there was an NGO person interviewed on NPR last week saying the same thing.

India, it turns out, has a massive shortage of clean toilets. This is a problem for everyone, but a much bigger one for women and girls. i can't find the piece I heard last week, but this is better:

http://wunc.org/post/india-access-to...omen-and-girls

Or just note this: "In India, men pee everywhere, even in urban areas. Middle class, educated men — if they have to go, they’ll just stop their car and pee against a wall. Or even defecate on the sidewalk."

I was a little surprised to read that you drove to Shimla. It is on my list of places to visit, but principally because I want to ride the mountain railway to get there, just as the train was a key reason I went to Darjeeling.

Kathie

Cyansiam, was this your first trip to India?

CaliNurse

Kathie, the answer to your question is in the first sentence of the report.