India help needed
 

We are planning a trip to celebrate my husbands 60th this February. It's a big dream of his and for once I am letting him plan, I should say we are doing this together. He has reached a private tour company that has good recommendations here and TA. But.....I feel that I must seek Fodor people for a little help. We are planning on seeing Varanasi, Udaipur, Jaipur, Agar, and Mumbai. Of course, I can't leave it at that. I would like to see Calcutta and not see Agra. We can see Agra on our next trip. If we do this can anyone talk a little bit about Calcutta and suggest an itinerary for our total 12-13 nights. We will fly into ND and out of Mumbai. I was thinking:

3 nights - Varanasi, 3 nights -Udaipur, 2 nights -Jaipur, 3 nights - Calcutta, and 2 nights- Mumbai.
--

Unfortunately, I think you will be spending a lot of time in airports because so many flights connect through ND. Without looking at fight schedules (something you are going to have to intently study), I think you might probably be best off taking a flight directly to Calcutta as soon as you can after landing in ND. Then, make your way back to Varanasi.

In your shoes I'd drop Jaipur, visit Udaipur, and have a couple extra nights in Mumbai. This might still be too complicated and time consuming to fit in all of these disparate places.

Hi SLifestyle.

Before giving itinerary suggestions, here's a question: what are your arrival and departure airports? Mumbai ?New Delhi? Kolkata? Once yu know those, it is easier to plan your route. Also, this will help determine the number of nights in each place (i.e. if you arrive late at night, or early enough to enjoy a full day, will determine if you "need" 2 nights or 3 nights in a place).

IF a big part of your husband's dream for his 60th birthday is to see Agra, I recommend going there on this trip. Life is unpredictable, and although you may be back(for me, India is addictive!) ..who knows for sure.

Oh, apologies; I see your arrival and departure airports!! From ND it is a relatively easy drive to Agra (there's a relatively new highway) and Jaipur.

What are you arrival and departure times? That will also determine number of days/nights in your itinerary.

From Udaipur you can get a direct flight to Mumbai. There are three direct flights during the day, if I recall correctly. There's an early morning flight that will get you into Mumbai at about 8:30 a.m. so that will give you that first full day there. Two nights would then give you two full days of exploring Mumbai, which is sufficient in the context of your planned stops.

As hard as it is: What are the top four MUST-SEE places for you and your husband with 11-12 full days on the ground?

Allow jet-lag recovery time! Where are you flying from?

Husband is wise have contacted a good travel planner/agency. With limited time travel in India, , a company that can make the journey as seamless as possible (e.g. transport between airports/hotels, and between places) is essential

I

When you say "We will fly into ND and out of Mumbai" do you mean you already have the tickets? If you want to see Kolkata (not Calcutta) you should start in Kolkata - I suppose if you are flying into ND you can connect to a domestic flight. Then fly or take the night train to Varanasi.

However, it would make much more sense, with your limited time, to do the standard Golden Triangle type trip, including Agra but finishing in Mumbai and saving Varanasi and Kolkata for another trip.

India is not a place for fast travel. Aside from the fact that it is a total assault on the senses, the roads are often terrible and encumbered with everything from pedestrians through bullock or camel carts to huge Tata trucks (do NOT plan to drive after dark), and flights may well be late, especially in ND at certain times of the year.

Agra requires at least a one night stay, so that you can see the Taj at dusk and dawn. You'll know why when you see it.

We plan to fly into ND and out of Mumbai, thank you

Thanks for clarifying/c confirming your arrival and departure societies. Int at case, i definitely recommend flying at the end from Udaipur to Mubai.

Don't wait to choose book hotels if possible. Winter's a popular toast season time in India and it can be hard to find rooms at certain hotels, especially the smaller "boutique" or heritage ones, this close (yes, even four months in advance!) to your arrival dates. For example, I missed out on my top recommended choice in Udaipur. Was still happy with the "second choice" but it reminded me to book (or have travel planner company) book well in advance next time.

Re: Agra, if you decide to go (I've made my case, above (-: ) as Thursdaysd said, you definitely should overnight there. The Agra Fort is fascinating (get a guide!) and highly recommended, especially as you'll not see the Red Fort in New Delhi . You can arrive into Agra in the afternoon, see the Fort and the Moonlight Garden (which will allow you to see the Taj Mahal from different perspective--its back) and then wake early the next morning to get to the Taj Mahal before the crowds. However, expect haze even at dawn, due to now omnipresent air pollution including from the typical Indian town morning cooking smoke fires. My sunrise pix are of smokey haze around an orange sun. That was 7 yrs ago, and I doubt the air has improved.

Apologies for typos. Winter is popular tourist--not toast!!--time.

What is your tentative itinerary? Have you kept the original destinations (adding Agra) or--with difficulty--decided to eliminate one or two? So many choices, so little time ..the eternal dilemma!

3 nights in each place- Calcutta, Varanasi Udaipur to Mubai then fly home.
Thoughts on Kalkutta? Are we nuts? The walks sound amazing. I read in another post about the argument for or against Agra and the same about Calcutta, this about says it all for me:

"I really don't want to see any sights--monuments, tombs, museums. We typically like to wander about taking in the atmosphere of a place--regular neighborhoods, interesting markets, walks along rivers etc".

We were in Shri Lanka 3 years ago and I wish we had more time hanging out and less driving for hours and hours just to see sights. I was there but It doesn't feel like it. Too much time in the back of a car, forced to listen to someone talk about things that I neither of us cared about.

You're not nuts. Kolkata is fascinating. I was there for four nights. Kolkata has a very different "feel" from other big cities in India . I had a great guide there (name available if you want). It'll be an interesting contrast to the other places. Highly recommend staying at the Oberoi (preferably pool view room--slightly higher "category"). Beautiful, historic hotel in a great location for wandering on your own--you can easily reach Mother Teresa's "house" and the wonderful old Park Street cemetery, on your own, walking down chaotic Park Street. Don't miss, with walking tour, the Kumartuli neighborhood, and possibly the hustle/bustle of University Bookstalls/Indian Coffee House areas (though I'd heard the bookstalls were being removed--guide there will know).The guide I went with did a fabulous tour of different ethnic/religious neighborhoods.
With those four destinations, you will be doing lots of to-from travel. Good that you have three nights in each place. Bare minimum, or you'll repeat your Sri Lanka experience. Are you flying? Trains? Driving? Be aware that flights can be delayed, or worse, cancelled. That's another reason to work with a reputable tour planner company. They will "have your back" if anything goes awry. I always tell people, if you have a perfectly 100% seamless time in India, you haven't had the "real India" experience. But you can get very close. (:

You're going to have a fantastic trip!! Enjoy the planning!

We enjoyed Kolkata. I highly recommend Calcutta Walks - a chance to see the city through the eyes of locals. We took two walks with them.

If it will help you reinforce your decision about skipping Agra, we've now made three trips to India (spent 4 months total there) and have not yet visited Agra. I will fit it in some day and am not feeling there is a great gap in my life not having visited.

Thank you Julies, I guess Agra isn't going anywhere. We need to purchase our air asap and now thinking that Kolkata will be our big city visit and reduce our time in Mumbai to one night so we have more country time.

Just one night in Mumbai isn't worth it. Perhaps you should should just stick with a round trip out of Delhi (unless you can find fantastically better airfare prices with one leg out of Mumbai). If you are only planning to visit Kolkata, Varanasi, Udaipur, and want more time in the countryside Delhi makes more sense. Or, see if you can fly in or out of Kolkata for one leg of your journey. It might cost a bit more but could definitely be a time saver (maybe, depending on touting times).

IMO what you really need to do is to spend lots of time investigating flight possibilities before you make a decision and book your international flights.

I know this is heresy on this site where people plan really, really far in advance. But, we have never booked plane tickets to India from the US more than 4 to 6 weeks in advance. And, since we do have some flexibility (I don't know if you do), I have always found very good, competitive airfares. So, I don't know that you need to fee the pressure to get those tickets booked immediately before you have a good skeleton itinerary plan.

Sorry to add to your confusion, but if you want more time to actually just wander and less time to tick off the bucket list sights, I have a couple other more unusual suggestions that might fit your itinerary.

The smaller, less known town of Bundi. Lots and lots of great wandering about without so many tourists. We found a local rickshaw driver who took us all around to lots of smaller interesting places in town.

If you enjoy wildlife safaris (in the wild). We have stayed here for two nights on two different trips. It is a two hour drive from Udiapur. http://castlebera.com/itinaerary/

For an authentic experience with a noble family in the area stay at Chanound Garh where your trip includes a guided walk through the local village. http://www.chanoudgarh.com/home.html

I don't know if this is additional confusion or a help.

If this is your husband's 60th birthday trip, and his dream is to see the Taj Mahal, why would you nix that? India isn't for everyone, and it is a tough travel. If you find it isn't your cup of tea, would you go back for him to see it?

I've been to India many times. I didn't think it would be that big of a deal, but after I saw the Taj Mahal on my first trip, I made the effort to go back on three subsequent trips.

I think you will be spending a lot of time traveling and in airports. I'd recommend starting in Kolkata, then Varanasi, then hire a driver to do the Delhi-Agra-Jaipur triangle, fly to Udaipur (from Delhi), then save Mumbai for another time. You can reverse or mix up the order based on the flights available, especially since many flights in the north and east require a transfer in Delhi anyway.

This way, you'll have a bit more time in each place. It's always better in India to build in extra time, to allow for delayed or cancelled flights, traffic congestion, and the fact that, unlike rear view mirrors, things are always farther than they appear on a map or Google!

I agree with lcuy. The Taj is one of those places that have to be seen to be appreciated - photographs do NOT do it justice. I have not been back to see it, but I was very glad I included it on my first trip to India.

Plus, you never know what will happen. I was trotting up and down (lots of) stairs in Japanese temples and castles last year. This year I have trouble with the four steps up to my front door.

I'm confused. At first it sounded like you already had your plane tix; if I now understand correctly, you haven't yet booked them.
If so, is there a particular reason you cannot fly directly into Kolkata (since this is one of your must-do places)? It would save "back-tracking" from New Delhi on domestic plane rides, if you could fly directly into Kolkata, instead of your originally stated plan of flying into New Delhi.
I hope this doesnt sound pushy or nosy--perhaps there is a reason, e.g.alimited frequent flyer route if that is how you are "paying" for tickets. But as said above, by other Fodorites, JulieS and Lcuy, it 'd be lots easier, and save precious time within your limited number of days, if you start in Kolkata.

Thank you, yes we have our tickets, we start and end in ND. We have 10 nights to travel in India. If Kolkata and Varanasi are the most important to us and we fly out of New Delhi how should we spend our time? We had planned on visiting Jaipur and Udapuir. Should we do both of those places? I could really use a creative itinerary idea. Thank you

Plan A
Varanasi- 2 nights
Kolkata - 4 nights with maybe a day trip out of Kolkata
Udapuir OR Jaipur- 4 nights
Fly to ND

Plan B
Varanasi- 2 nights
Kolkata - 3 nights
Udapuir - 3 nights
Jaipur- 2 nights
Fly to ND

Plan B
Varanasi- 3 nights
Kolkata - 4 nights with maybe a day trip out of Kolkata
Visit surrounding areas outside of Kolkata and or Varanasi - 3 nights, mix it up?
Fly to ND

Kolkata - 3 nights
Varanasi - 3 nights
Jaipur - 4 nights including side trip to Shekhawati region

I have not looked at flight times.

Great point Thursdaysd makes.

I'd chose Plan A ; see my reasons below.

Also, WHICH of those, if any, between-city domestic flights are nonstop? Any? That would affect your plan.

If there were a place I would eliminate, it would be Jaipur city. If you want a day trip out of a city (gapped idea) I would NOT do that in Kolkata. Unless you make a day out into the countryside to see some village life, you do not "need" 4 nights (days?) in Jaipur or Udaipur. See Thursdaysd's idea above, about some time out of Jaipur city if you chose that option.

There are nearby or day trips out of both the Rajasthan cities you mention. In Udaipur, you could do an easy half-day trip to nearby Delwara Village (which i had planned but didnt get to do). Or you could stay at a gorgeous restored palace IN the village (Devi Garh) and use one full day of that to take a day trip into Udaipur. OR IF you are in Udaipur for four nights (three full days) you could do a full day trip out to the famous temple Ranakpur, and Kumbalgarh Fort.

You are very close to the actual travel dates, and often especially in winter season, the most desired hotel fill up. So...wahtever you decide, don't wait much longer to get specific!

Good luck!! India is wonderful!!!!

Sorry, type. "Good idea " (not gapped idea) about a day trip out of a city and into nearby countryside or village.

You definitely need to start researching plane times between the cities you want to visit because that is going to determine your itinerary and how much time you will have where.

What time does your flight arrive in ND? Will you be able to get another flight out that same day, or will you need to spend a night in ND? What time does your flight from ND depart for home? You may need to spend the previous night in ND just to make sure you can make your flight home. Thus, potentially you could only have 8 nights in India unless you have already taken this into account.

And, I have no idea where you are coming from and whether you are people who can sleep on planes, but you could also be facing some serious jet lag issues.

If this is your first time in India, I'd recommend you end with Varanasi and not start with it, despite logistical complications. It's an assault on the senses to the extreme and will invoke a love/hate relationship. The easiest (most westernized, relatively speaking) in your itinerary is Mumbai and close behind are parts of Delhi.

Great advice from some experienced fodorites above.My suggestion is for 12-13 days,pick 3 places of your(and DH) choice & make the most of it.Do it elaborately rather than time in airports.
If its my pick it would be New Delhi,Varanasi and Kolkata. Delhi in,Kolkata out or vise versa.Accommodate Varanasi in between.

The rest can be saves for you next visit.

You could squeeze in Taj by day tripping to Agra from Delhi.
The 8 lane Yamuna Experssway takes you to Agra in 3 hrs from Delhi.That means, compromising time,in Delhi.

The problem with day tripping to the Taj is that you miss dusk and dawn, which are the best times to see it.

I second that bit - best time to see the Taj. Weekdays (except Friday when it's closed) entry from the East gate, at dawn before the crowds arrive. For sunset, try mehtab bagh from across the river.

Inquest, the number of nights was changed to10(from 12-13) and it was already suggested that OP use Kolkata as a port of entry to save making at least one domestic flight (since she and husband want to visit Kolkata). Flights are booked for ND in and out. Agree with Thursdaysd--Agra, even if they wanted to visit (getting mixed messages on that, above) is not a place to "squeeze in" during a 3 hour each-way (6 hour total of day tripping") visit. IF it were a top priority, it could be done logically via car, as an en-route overnight trip between Delhi and Jaipur, but that has already been suggested and there is no mention of Agra in the above "Plan" options.

SLifestyle, when asked for ideas, we're all eager to help, but need accurate info as to actual number of nights, reasons and/or order for a particular itinerary, etc. As to advice, take it or leave it--there are plenty of great ideas from which to choose, from knowledgeable people--but at least give us clear info on which to base sensible recommendations. You seem all over the place with changing plans, so that giving tentative suggestions to the request for a "creative itinerary idea" rather difficult.

First the trip was 12-13 nights, then 10 nights. You will fly ND/Mumbai (as if that was firm)... but hadn't yet purchased tix after all. Based on one of your top desired destinations, you rec'd, from several people, the recommendation to fly into or out of Kolkata, in order to save the time/hassle of at least one intra-country flight...then purchased roundtrip ND/ND. Your first post says you're planning to see Agra...then in the next sentence, not seeing Agra. You no doubt have good reasons for the above, but the inconsistency makes it hard to know what you really want.

I fully agree that this 'Epitome of Love' the Taj Mahal is at its monumental best at dusk and dawn.Op's paucity of time and eagerness to 'must see' Taj,is why I suggested day tripping.

Cali,like you rightly said there was a lot of uncertainty, from the initial 12-13 nights cut to 10 nights.This was another reason I suggested 3 places.Further,the port of entry and exit too seemed unclear earlier.

OP,please don't get me wrong. In here,specific questions get specific answers.Like Cali mentioned,accurate info is key to getting good advice.Without which the discussion could go into a tail-spin.

I am back, thank you for so much comprehensive information. We're driving ourselves crazy. This is our plan, we arrive early AM in Delhi, spend the rest of the night, next day and leave the following morning for a meditation retreat in the middle of India. After the one week retreat, we have 9 nights to plan. Here are my questions; After our retreat, we can do the following:

1. Drive directly to Khajuraho for one night then fly to Varanasi. I am not so sure about Khajuraho?
2. Train 12 hours after our retreat (one night on the train) to Varanasi skipping Khajuraho
3. Fly to Delhi and catch a flight to Varanasi the following morning.

**After this transfer night we will only have 8 nights. We are thinking,

A. Varanasi - 3 nights
B. Kolkata - 3 -4 nights
C. Jaipur 2 nights or fly to Delhi from Kolkata and spend the last 1-2 nights in Delhi and not Jaipur. We have a VERY late flight out.

"retreat in the middle of India"--that covers a lot of ground. Where? How are road connections? How long a drive ? A coupe hours? All day? etc.
(Don't go by "google maps"--usually underestimates drive times for India). Impossible to say if Khajurao is a good idea, and worth more driving, without knowing the above info.

However, in any case, you say you are now down to 9 nights (from 12-13, then 10) even without Khajuraho. So imho, you are probably better sticking with one of your original Plan A, or Plan Bs, about which you enquired on a previous post, and where you have received excellent ideas from assorted Fodorites.

India is chock full of magical places, but approaching with a "hey, this looks good!" (e.g. now adding Khajurao) is not the best way to see it.

I'd still recommend Udaipur vs Jaipur, if you can just as easily fly there.

Assuming you are in a place for your retreat where you can easily catch a train, I'd go with #2 the train.

How exactly are you planning to get to Kolkata from Varanasi?

How exactly are you planning to get from Kolkata to Jaipur or Delhi?

Once again, all of these details will help to determine what you an actually do.

As I said upthread, we are not Delhi fans and have seen it in bits and pieces--a half day here, a half day there etc. while working around flights.

We once had a very late flight home out of Delhi just like you do. We spent our time elsewhere, arrived in Delhi early to mid afternoon and had a driver pick us up. Did a bit of sightseeing and had dinner and then had the driver take us to the airport. It worked fine.

I am not sure how to cut this small pie up. We are looking to figure out our last 8 nights, this is after:

1.5 nights and one day in Delhi after our arrival.
One week on retreat, plus one night to transfer from our retreat.

Our India outbound leaves at 1 AM, we have 8 nights and 9 days. Our plan is to either fly or train into Varanasi and then fly to Kalcuta. My question is 1. How many nights in these two places, 2/3, 3/3, or 3/4 2. Where should we go after with our 1-3 nights? My thought is leaning more towards, 3 V - 4 K and spend our last night in ND. We could stay in ND for our last night and tour the day before our late flight home. Orrrrr we could also have 1-2 nights in Jaipur as discussed. I apologize for this.

Have you checked the train times? (Use cleartrip.com)

Have you checked the flight times?

You will find both of those easier if you spell the city Kolkata.

Are you going to Khajurao (mentioned previously) OR Jaipur? Or neither?

Fwiw, my suggestion for # of nights in the only two places (aside from New Delhi) that have been constant in all your above posts, is:

Varanasi: 3 nights
Kolkata: 4 nights.

Last bit of serious advice:
Do NOT keep wondering. Decide...soon!! You have limited time because the best flights, trains, and specific hotels options may already be full or nearly so for this most-popular visiting time.

Good luck!!!!! I daresay you will love India!!