How paranoid should we be: Avian flu and rip-offs?
 

Seven of us are going to Thailand next week. Ko Samui, Chiang Mai, Phuket and Bangkok. We are all staying at nice places recommended on this site. We are taking mainly planes and the Bangkok to Chiang Mai 1st class overnight train. But, everytime I mention our trip to anybody, we get a lot of flack regarding the Avian flu and getting pick-pocketed. Oh ya, and now in the SF Chronicle yesterday there was an article on terrorists in Southern Thailand. How paranoid should I be?

I have been to Thailand before, but it was ten years ago. Should I be overly cautious, or is everyone just over-reacting?

I assume I'll just watch my stuff, not wear my info/$ in a dayback, and no eating undercooked chicken. Any other pearls of wisdom to take on this trip? Thanks!

You don't need to be paranoid. right now, the avian flu is not a threat unless you handle live poultry (or the poop), or raw poultry. Just make sure your poultry and eggs are well cooked and stay away from dishes that use raw duck's blood.

Check out the CDC website for the most up to date info

http://www.cdc.gov/

I've been to Thailand several times and never had a problem with pickpockets. Just take normal precautions as you would in any major city or tourist destination.

As for terrorists, so far this has not been a problem for tourists or most of the country. Whether or not this changes, no one can know the answer to that but I wouldn't worry about it.

Agree with Laurie and the cdc is a very reliable source of information for more than bird flu. Worth a browse for sure.

Terrorism...there has been trouble in southern Thailand for quite some time now. For some reason, it just doesn't hit the international news in the same way as terrorism in some other places does, likely because it has up to now had little or no direct impact on tourists.

I've been vacationing in S.E.Asia since the 90s and have never been pickpocketed. Wear a money belt. As for Avian flu...at my hotel in Bangkok in Aug 2004, there was a sign, in the breakfast buffet restaurant, saying that due to the bird flu all eggs would be well-cooked. That was the extent of the talk of avian flu. In August 2005, at the same hotel, I didn't even see a sign. This avian flu thing has been going on for 2 years. Go on bbc.com. It was reported that there were 14, I think it was, cases of Avian flu reported in 2003/2004 in Thailand. There are how many millions of people in Thailand? As for terroism in the South, well, that's been going on for a long time. I think you should read Bangkok Post to see what's going on in that region of the world.I'm American, but have almost always thought that American newsreporting can be very sensationalized. I tend to not only listen to American news, but also listen to the BBC reports and read the Bangkok Post and the Straits newspaper in Singapore to get different viewpoints and different reporting. But, you will have to decide what your comfort zone is for traveling to this part of the world. We can't decide that for you. I'm not cancelling my 3-week vacation in Bangkok next month though. Happy Travels!

Thanks so much! Perfect answers!

You'll be much safer in Thailand than in virtually any American city from pickpockets, etc. There is an annoying thing about touts around some major tourist sites in BKK. They will tell you the site, e.g., the Grand Palace, is closed for a Buddhist holiday and then offer a Tuk tuk ride to other sites. This ride will include visiting a jewelry sales operation that pays the touts to bring in tourists. Just ignore these touts. The Avian Flu is not yet a significant health threat. Only close contact with infected birds has caused humans to contract this. Skip the animal section of Chatachuk market and make sure your chicken is cooked. Have a great time.

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I would draw everyone's attention to the fact that it is both eggs and chicken which are at risk. So, no eating undercooked or uncooked eggs also means no eating desserts like mousse which have raw eggs. Take normal precautions. Don't eat in places where you feel hygiene may not be up to the mark. But equally don't let paranoia spoil your trip - Thailand is GREAT!

Hobbes, there is no indication that the virus can be passed even through undercooked eggs or poultry. The only item really considered a danger is fresh poultry blood added to a dish just before serving, and therefore really uncooked. Nonetheless, some people are opting to eat only well-cooked poultry items. While that is probably best anyway, I just wanted to clarify that this is not a route of transmission.

Kathie, I checked the CDC website (I have two daughters living in Liaoning Province, the site of the latest outbreak) and believe that undercooked chicken and eggs are in fact a no-no - in fact the last death allegedly was due to the fact that the family dined on rare chicken.

The fact that you can post this question says more about the ignorance prevalant in the US than it does about the reality of Thailand.

Sometimes I really do not know where you folk are coming from.

Neil, there was speculation (mostly in the press) that the family could have caught the disease through undercooked poultry, but the belief among the medical investigators is that the established routes of transmission are much more likely.

Here is the quote from the cdc website:

"During 2005, outbreaks of H5N1 infection among poultry and other birds have been confirmed in Cambodia, China, Croatia, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Romania, Russia, Thailand, Turkey, and Vietnam. Poultry outbreaks were also reported in Malaysia and Laos during 2004. Most cases of H5N1 infection in humans are thought to have occurred from direct contact with infected poultry in the affected countries. Therefore, when possible, care should be taken to avoid contact with live, well-appearing, sick, or dead poultry and with any surfaces that may have been contaminated by poultry or their feces or secretions. Transmission of H5N1 viruses to two persons through consumption of uncooked duck blood may also have occurred in Vietnam in 2005. Uncooked poultry or poultry products, including blood, should not be consumed."

Note that the caution is just about UNCOOKED poultry or poultry products.

Avian flu? Terrorism?

Haven't affected my travel plans so far. The avian flu had 60 fatalities so far, while millions succumb to malaria yearly, so I am not overly concerned about the avian flu.

Terrorism is not an issue unless you are travelling to the far south. Really, with riots in Paris and bombings in Amman, the issue of safety is relative today.

Don't worry about the folks who give you the flack; most of them likely would't be able to locate Thailand if you shoved an atlas in their face.

You know, I read recently that something like 4 million tourists die every year from car accidents.. (may not be exact but it was an amazingly high number)... that is more then terrorism or bird flu combined in the past 10 years! If I were you and it came down to holding a live chicken vs wearing a seatbelt.....
Buckle me in!

Thanks, Kathie. The part I read was in the CDC's FAQs, specifically "Is it safe to eat poultry and poultry products?" and addresses not only uncooked but undercooked and poorly handled poultry and eggs. In view of the concerns expressed by posters, I think the answer worth quoting in full:

"Yes, though certain precautions should be followed in countries currently experiencing outbreaks. In areas free of the disease, poultry and poultry products can be prepared and consumed as usual (following good hygienic practices and proper cooking), with no fear of acquiring infection with the H5N1 virus.

"In areas experiencing outbreaks, poultry and poultry products can also be safely consumed provided these items are properly cooked and properly handled during food preparation. The H5N1 virus is sensitive to heat. Normal temperatures used for cooking (70oC in all parts of the food) will kill the virus. Consumers need to be sure that all parts of the poultry are fully cooked (no 'pink' parts) and that eggs, too, are properly cooked (no 'runny' yolks).

"Consumers should also be aware of the risk of cross-contamination. Juices from raw poultry and poultry products should never be allowed, during food preparation, to touch or mix with items eaten raw. When handling raw poultry or raw poultry products, persons involved in food preparation should wash their hands thoroughly and clean and disinfect surfaces in contact with the poultry products Soap and hot water are sufficient for this purpose.

"In areas experiencing outbreaks in poultry, raw eggs should not be used in foods that will not be further heat-treated as, for example by cooking or baking.

"Avian influenza is not transmitted through cooked food. To date, no evidence indicates that anyone has become infected following the consumption of properly cooked poultry or poultry products, even when these foods were contaminated with the H5N1 virus."

Thanks for quoting the other section, Neil. Yes, it's always recommend that eggs and poultry be well-cooked, though many people don't adhere to those recommendations. Still, these recommendations are simply prudent precutions as opposed to there being any data that anyone has contracted avian flu via eating even rare poultry or raw eggs. The raw duck blood is currently the only known transmission via eating poultry products.

Back from Thailand. All seven of us ate like there was no tomorrow, got fat and didn't encounter any sickness what-so-ever. We used those handy san-wipes. I think they help. Anyway, we are fat and happy. Great trip.

Was watching, "The View" TV talk show yesterday and Dr. Lam was on talking about the bird flu. He noted that over 60,000 people ( I think it was) die annually from the regular flu and that about 100 people have died from the bird flu.This bird flu has been going on, in South East Asia, for a couple of years now and I've been vacationing there the entire time and I haven't seen anything near the media hysteria there as I've seen here in the states. The main concern has always been that the bird flu virus doesn't mix with the regular flu virus, mutate, and then have the ability to be passed from person to person. It hasn't come to that at this point. Happy Travels!

Bird flu has miniscule prevalence, but high lethality. Only about 150 cases, but approximately 50% of persons who contract the illness die. So, it poses an interesting risk-benefit conundrum. We're going to Thailand next week and we're taking Tamiflu and Probenecid to potentiate it, just in case.

But, the former will work well against a regular flu back here in the USA, too. I regard this as cheap insurance.

I believe in Murphy's Law....If you have it, you won't need it, etc. Also, be sure you put your meds in your carry-on, not your check in, as meds get stolen by baggage handlers.

There was very little, or no concern about Bird Flu on our trip. Just don't frequent poultry farms or eat raw poultry or eggs. Also, keep away from caged birds.

Have a great time and the food is SO GOOD!