Help with Beijing Itinerary
 

Spending seven days and eigth nights in Beijing early September, 2010. This is our second trip to China and Beijing. In early 2007 we were on a tour to China and Beijing but, this time we are on our own. This is our planned itinerary, please critique.

After arriving and checking into the Pen we plan a walk on Wangfujing Dajie to stretch our legs, get a feel for the area and something to eat.

Plan for day one is Tiananmen Square and the Forbidden City. We visited both on our first trip but plan to spend more time here. Then a visit to the Donghuoman Night Market. Who knows maybe we will see Andrew Zimmern there. We may not eat but, we must see the variety of strange food on a stick sold here.

Depending on how day one goes, day two will start at Jingshan Park. Then it is on to the Lama Temple and Confucius Temple followed by strolling through Nanluoguxiang Hutong.

Day three takes us to Prince Gong's Mansion, the lakes area including Beihai Park, North Cathederal which I believe is near Beihai Park then exploring the Xidan area.

Day four includes the Summer Palace and the Old Summer Palace.

We love strolling through the botonical gardens as we travel and on this day the Beijing Botonical Garden is scheduled.

Monday, day six, includes Ritan Park and the Temple of the Sun, visits to two markets, Yaxiu Fuzhang Shichang and Panjiayuan Jiuhuo Shichang (Dirt Market) plus Factory 798. We really are not shoppers but enjoy the excitement and seeing the crap (can I say that) found at the markets. One may actually be more than enough. The art at Factory 798 may be very interesting.

Day seven, our last full day in Beijing, includes the Ox Street Mosque, Fuyuan Temple which is close by, Liulichang and/or Dazhalan districts, White Cloud Temple and finally a walk through the Ming Dynasty Wall Relics Park. I know this is a very full day but we will see how it works out.

This is just a working plan and is subject to change at any time. What do you travelers think? Can we do it? Let me know you thoughts which are always outstanding.

From Beijing, we are flying to Lhasa for six nights and six days before heading back to H-Town.

> What do you travelers think?

I can never see the point, especially in China, of planning in so much detail. Just make a list of the things you most want to see, and then completely ignore it if you find you want to spend more time in one particular place, or if you hear about or stumble across something else you didn't know about. You're travelling independently, and the main benefit of doing that (other than saving a lot of money over organised tourism) is flexibility.

Other than that:

The Donghua Men market is just a tourist trap. No one really eats scorpions on a stick, and this is a photo opportunity rather than reality, and where more ordinary foods are also more expensive than they need to be. If you want to see a real food market where real Beijingers really eat (and eat well for low prices) go to the basement of the Beijing Crafts building on the opposite side of Wangfu Jing Dajie.

Jing Shan Park is best combined with a visit to the Forbidden City. Start early in the morning there, enter the city from the north side, and make your way south. There's much less of a line-up (usually none, in fact) to buy tickets, and if you start early you'll be halfway through before you meet the crowds coming in from the south. See other postings on this site on this topic. Then emerge into Tian'an Men Square in the afternoon, if you still have the energy.

Both palaces and the Botanical Garden are quite a lot to do in one day. But you'll want to start with the 'Old' Summer Palace (which is actually newer than the Summer Palace), then the Summer Palace, and then catch a bus from there to the Botanical Garden. The metro is your friend as far as reaching the palaces is concerned, but you'll need an early start all the same.

Ritan Park is a bit ho hum. You can spend your time much better than this. The Altar of Agriculture, for instance, is far more extensive and interesting than the Altar of the Sun, including a vast Ming hall, a rather good museum, three altars, and assorted other buildings.

> We really are not shoppers but enjoy the excitement and seeing the crap (can I say that) found at the markets.

About Yaxiu (aka 'Ya Show') and Pan Jia Yuan you can certainly say that. But skip the relatively tedious Yaxiu which is more expat-oriented (there are assorted markets in Chaoyang Men Wai Dajie which are more entertaining) and head for Pan Jia Yuan for a truly comprehensive selection of tat. If you want more serious markets, less well-known markets, markets dealing in local pastimes, and proper crafts, then ask.

Allow more time for 798 than you're thinking. It's not hard to spend a day there, and certainly half a day. If you're more serious about art then allow time also to go a little further northeast to Caochangdi, which (for now) retains the seriousness which is still present in some parts of 798, but swamped (entertainingly) by commercialism and cafes. And don't go on Monday. Most of the galleries are shut that day.

Liulichang is just another built-for-tourists kitsch street which won't impress if you've seen Pan Jia Yuan anyway, so I'd skip that. Dazhalan Jie has some real shopping, but may not survive in its current form much longer. To see just how much of a disaster rebuilding Beijing can be proceed to the west end of the street to view the ghastly Disneyfied Qian Men Dajie. The Baiyun Si (White Cloud Temple) is refreshingly different from Buddhist Temples but the best Daoist temple is probably the Dong Yue Miao in Chaoyang Men Wai Dajie.

Obviously you can't see everything in Beijing, but it does seem a shame not to have some more of its leafier pleasures included. Consider a day trip out of town to either:

The Western Qing Tombs
The Eastern Qing Tombs
The village of Cuandixia
The rural temples of Tanzhe Si and Jietai Si

The Eastern Qing Tombs can be reached by Chinese bus tour at weekends. The Western Qing Tombs can be reached by a combination of train out and bus back. Cuandixia and the two temples can be reached by metro and public bus.

Peter N-H

Should read, 'proceed to the east end of the street'. It's late, and I'm in Brazil.

Peter, thanks.

Can you get the audio tour at the North Gate to FC?

Do you know the actual name of the crafts building you are referring to on Wangfu jing Dajie?

> Can you get the audio tour at the North Gate to FC?

Yes. And you can leave it at the south gate. But if you want accurate information I wouldn't bother. See other threads on this topic, but pick up a map from the shop on the left as you enter at the north end, and see advice on route (also under another thread). For good and readable general background on the palace and notes on particular halls see Geremie Barmé's recent 'The Forbidden City'.

> Do you know the actual name of the crafts building you are referring to on Wangfu jing Dajie?

工美大厦, Gongmei Dasha. But it has Arts and Crafts in big letters on the front: a multi-storey market of everything for tourists, and for the very last word in carved jade, ivory, and general over decorated kitsch of fabulous complexity visit the museum on the fourth floor.

Thanks again Peter.

It appears that Peter is the only Beijing traveler with ideas and suggestions on travel in Beijing and the Fordidden City althought there is a discussion dating to Feb/Mar 2010 that may be of interest. Gpanda also has described a trip he made to Beijing for three days which also had some very good info. Other than that not much.

Gpanda, hope you are doing well. I wear a Livestrong yellow bracelet from Lance Armstrong's cancer foundation and have worn it every day since early 2004. I would love to send you one if you can post a way for me to get it to you. Good luck and stay strong.

MSheinberg, there are plenty of China travelers here who have varying opinions, advice and anecdotes to share.

Sadly, however, it's not really worth entering the hostile environment that has become the China forum. Who wants to continually get shot down, belittled, tossed aside as irrelevant and have their words dissected like they're on trial when they don't share the views of the "totalitarian regime?" Not I.

I guess I do not get it. What are you saying?

Well said, Nutella.

I'll add one update and hope I don't get insulted.

I did Forbidden City today. I arrived at the north gate at about 8:15 and stood in line -- the ticket office opens at 8:30 as do the gates. In addition to the 15 minutes waiting for the office to open, I inched forward for about another 15 minutes to get the tickets. (Yesterday the line at the main entrance was an hour long to get tickets.) By the time I had mine the lines for the three open windows snaked around quite a bit. I'd think at least a half hour wait to buy tickets at the North Entrance. Perhaps Sunday in August is an extremely busy time. Meanwhile there were dozens and dozens of tour groups there, so when the gates did open the inside was mobbed for some distance through the center corridor. In fact it was hard to get through the crowds for a while. But once going off to the sides, it was calm. And it seemed I had the entire Treasury Hall area almost to myself. So I'm agreeing the North Entrance is a good bet -- just don't believe that you might not see crowds there -- particularly lots of big tour groups.

Bravo, Nutella, I adore your courage; Patrick, you are brave too.

MSheinberg: Gentle China travelers do not care to be shredded to pieces after a certain person voices his opinion.

Fodors editors should take note of this too.

Thanks, the support is much appreciated! But in all my years of posting on Fodors, to the best of my knowledge I've never written anything negative or critical, so it gives me no joy to have written this. I do stand by my words, however, as this is such a great community of travelers and I just wish it would be a welcoming place to share advice.

Now, back to being a shiny, happy Fodorite :)

my e-mail is [email protected] if anyone wishes to be more specific.

MSheinberg, Maybe this thread will help you understand:

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...na-beijing.cfm

I'm glad we have a person like Peter around. He cuts through the BS and gives it to you straight. Sure, hes a strongly opinionated- but obviously he really knows his stuff here. I'd rather follow him over the grayscale bleatings of a garden-variety fodorite.

I guess that I had already read between the lines and narrowed down who you are referring to. People, this in only travel, we are not solving problems of world peace or finding cures for medical mysteries. So what if people have thoughts and ideas that we don't always agree with. We do not have to agree with these ideas or presentations. I thought we are just looking for travel guidance. I tend to agree with many of the things covered and in the ideas presented by each of you. I also disagree at times. So what. I come here for travel info not to debate personalities.

If any of you would like to contribute to my China travels, thank you. Bring it on. I will then decide to use it or not. In either case it will help make my trip more enjoyable.

<<<PeterN_H on Aug 10, 10 at 8:09pm

I can never see the point, especially in China, of planning in so much detail. Just make a list of the things you most want to see, and then completely ignore it if you find you want to spend more time in one particular place...>>>

Peter, I tend to plan out a lot of things simply so that I don't end up missing something I really want to see. I have very limited travel time and want to spend it actually seeing and doing things instead of back tracking from one side of a city to the other. For my trips, I tend to plan everything out and toss a very general time estimate at it so that I don't try to stuff too much into each day.

If things come up then the plan gets modified and changed as needed. It's not a strictly regulated schedule of "8:00-11:30 Place 1. 11:30-12:30 lunch. 12:30-4:30 Place 2", but simply "morning - place 1. Afternoon - place 2. Pick up red line train at corner of X and Y." That way I have my transportation already figured out and don't waste time trying to figure out what bus or train I want to catch and where it is.

It's simply a way to organize the time budget just like I organize my spending budget. If I spend $X here, then I only have $Y there. I'd love to spend days on the various sections of the Great Wall, but I know that the more time I spend there the less time I can spend elsewhere. It helps to have it all laid out and scheduled so that I can keep myself on track and it's a visual reminder that I really can't keep adding more and more places.

It just helps me to see a schedule than to just see a list. A list can either be overwhelming (how will I ever see all the places I want to see???) or looks smaller than it is (I can definitely add more places to see!).

A schedule also helps me plan for transportation costs. I can look at a schedule and determine if I'll be needing a bus, a train, a cab, just walking, or some combination of those. If I plan on spending a few days just walking or taking a cab, then I don't need a bus/train pass for those days and might purchase a 3 day pass instead of a 7 day pass.



This is one of the fun things about travel, it really is a "to each, their own" type thing. What works best for me would drive many people nuts. What works best for them would leave me missing places I dearly want to see. A schedule doesn't have to be a set thing, it can be just a guideline and can be changed or ignored at any time.

Iowa_Readhead.

I like your style of trip planning as this is exactly what I do as I plan and how I carry out my trip. Nothing is etched in stone and if I would rather make a right turn than a left turn that is exactly what I do. If i miss something today maybe I will see it tomorrow.

Does everyone see how easy it is to express our own travel opinions? It does not matter what anyone else thinks or says about not only our trip advice but about us generally. With everything else in our lives this is really not that important.

Iowa_Redhead: The discussion has been specifically about Beijing, where it certainly makes sense to group together sights that are near to one another, or linked by metro, since Beijing's traffic is sclerotic for an ever-increasingly large part of the day. I happen to be in Rio de Janeiro as I write this, and the same approach seems to be best here, and for the same reasons.

But China throws extra googlies (cricketing metaphor--for US English could this be 'curve balls'?) at you, insofar as important changes take place with no announcements at all. It took me nearly six years to get into the Guo Moruo Jinianguan because each time I turned up the cadres running the place had decided (or been instructed) to have a study session of the latest twist of communist orthodoxy, and arbitrarily closed the site. A few weeks ago the Simatai Great Wall site shut down for what may be a couple of years with no announcement at all. Woe to those who had planned to visit on Thursday at 11.45am.

What I was wanting to suggest, therefore, was that the most important thing in China is to do first the things that you regard as most important. If that's the Forbidden City, then that should be on day one, just in case you can't go in because a) a film crew has taken the place over, b) they're setting up for some major concert performance, or c) some other political reason that can't be imagined. In China, these things happen.

So in planning, the most important thing (unlike here in Rio) is to draw up a list or priorities, and tackle them in order. To be sure, if the FC is on day one, you follow it up with Tian'an Men Square, the Planning Museum, the Old Station (soon to be a railway museum), the Mahakala Temple, Bei Hai Park, or the Legation Quarter, because these are all nearby.

On the other hand, since the FC is on the metro, you move swiftly to Tian Tan (the 'Temple of Heaven'--although the Chinese means 'Altar of Heaven') if that's number two on your list, because that can be reached easily with one change of metro line.

Additionally, you may of course find that the FC is more fascinating, and takes far longer than you expected. On the other hand, you may be bored witless, and wish to move on sooner. So the plan is to do the FC, and then to continue to the Temple of Heaven if time permits. If it doesn't, then the Temple of Heaven is the priority on day 2 (perhaps to be followed up with the Altar of Agriculture, since that is nearby, or by the Lama Temple, since that is on the same metro line), or by the Summer Palace since there's a direct bus from near the Temple of Heaven.

I don't think there's any disagreement here. The original plan does come close to amounting to "8:00-11:30 Place 1. 11:30-12:30 lunch. 12:30-4:30 Place 2" as you put it, and I'm merely suggesting that China's complete disregard for the interests of the visitor, and complete unpredictability means that an order of priority should be decided and little more, although taking the effort to be well-informed about transport options before arrival is certainly a good idea.

The shorter the time available in Beijing the more important this order-of-priority approach becomes. You may get down to number seven on a list of ten things to see, but you may only get to number three. If you've started by doing what's geographically convenient to your hotel, rather than what you most care about (which you've planned to do on day 4), you may end up bitterly disappointed.

Peter N-H