Help me choose: itin A or B for Cambodia and Laos
 

Main reason for trip is to see temples in Siem Riep. It's such a long trip I want to visit a few other places on the same trip.
Itin A
Arrival Phnom Penh on KA 206 at 10:30am 2/27/09, check in hotel Pavillon
Day 1 2/27 PNH half day
Day 2 2/28 PNH
Day 3 3/1 PNH
Day 4 3/2 fly PNH-REP PG 992 9:35-1015am, check in hotel Bopha Angkor
start touring temples in afternoon with guide John Teng
Day 5 3/3 REP
Day 6 3/4 REP
Day 7 3/5 REP
Day 8 3/6 fly REP-VTE QV 522 10:05-1:00 pm, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 9 3/7 VTE
Day 10 3/8 fly VTE-LPQ QV 109 9:30-10:10, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 11 3/9 LPQ
Day 12 3/10 LPQ
Day 13 3/11 fly LPQ-BKK PG 942 12:10-2:15pm, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 14 3/12 BKK
Day 15 3/13 fly BKK-NRT 10:30pm ticketed
...OR...Itin B
Arrival Phnom Penh on KA 206 at 10:30am 2/27/09, check in hotel Pavillon
Day 1 2/27 PNH
Day 2 2/28 PNH
Day 3 3/1 PNH
Day 4 3/2 fly PNH-REP PG 992 9:35-1015am, check in hotel Bopha Angkor
start touring temples in afternoon with guide John Teng
Day 5 3/3 REP
Day 6 3/4 REP
Day 7 3/5 REP
Day 8 3/6 REP
Day 9 3/7 REP-LPQ QV 80812:55-2:35 pm, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 10 3/8 LPQ
Day 11 3/9 LPQ
Day 12 3/10 fly LPQ-BKK PG 942 12:10-2:15pm, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 13 3/11 BKK
Day 14 3/12 BKK
Day 15 3/13 fly BKK-NRT 10:30pm ticketed
Itin A has both Vientiane and Luang Prabang, itin has B has more time in Siem Riep and Bangkok, only LP in Laos. Tickets into PNH and out of BKK are set and cannot be changed (award seats, very hard to get) Is trying to visit and see 5 places too ambitious? Never been to any of these cities before except Bangkok, 10 years ago. Like big cities in general, but read that BKK has gotten dirty, expensive, and full of scammers. Will have already done the trip's shopping in Cambodia and Laos.
Please give me your expert critiques. Thank you all in advance.
Susie

The answer depends in part on how interested you are in the temples at Angkor. If going to Angkor is your primary purpose in taking this trip, you might want even more time there. If you have a moderate interest in the temples then either of these itineraries would work for the time you are spending in Siem Reap.

Frankly, I don't think you have enough time in Luang Prabang. Your time in Vientiane is so short that it strikes me as a distraction. You would be better off cutting it and adding the time to LP.

I love Bangkok - it's my favorite city in the world. But you already have trepidation about it. Perhaps you should save it for another time. "_____ has gotten dirty, expensive, and full of scammers" is a comment that could be applied to almost any city, and certainly to most cities in the US. If you had enough time to explore Bangkok, to get to know it, you might overcome the negative image you have. But whether you spend two days or three you won't have enough time to do that. So spend a minimum of time in Bangkok, stay at a lovely hotel, eat a couple of fabulous meals, pamper yourself with a spa, but come back another time to get to know the city.

So, given all of that, I'd vote for Itinerary B, but moving a day from Bangkok to Luang Prabang.

I agree with Kathie that if the primary purpose is to visit Angkor Wat, you should allocate as much time as possible. My first visit was for two and a half days, and I went back for another four and a half days. See if you can find a copy of Dawn Rooney's "Angkor" guide to help you decide.

I'm glad to see that you're visiting Phnom Penh as well as Siem Reap, but I'd recommend taking a taxi or bus between the two so that you get to see some of the countryside. You'll arrive in Siem Reap early afternoon, and still be able to visit the temples at sunset.

I, too, would advocate more time in LP. Although recent reports have been depressing WRT how touristy it has become, unlike many posters here I am not a big fan of BKK.

What year is Dawn Rooney's Angkor guide from? I see 2 of them on Amazon, one is "Angkor, Cambodia's Wondrous Khmer Temples" publ. 2005 and the other book is "Angkor Observed (Orchid Guides)" publ 2006. Which is the book I should be looking for?

I see three on Amazon - I used an earlier version of the Odyssey guide - http://www.amazon.com/Angkor-Odyssey...6926131&sr=8-2 - but I haven't seen the others.

Angkor Observed is a book with old photos and descriptions of travelers 100 years ago. What you want is the "Angkor, Cambodia's Wondrous Khmer Temples." My copy says it was published October, 2006.

There are previous editions of Dawn's book, but I'd get the most current, as more and more new (well, old) temples are being made accessible.

Kathie is right, it all depends on how interested you are in temples. I was interested, but not that interested. So I vote for itinerary A. I would also probably consider taking away a day from Phnom Penh to spend in Luang Prabang.

So far I'm leaning towards itinerary B, and staying one more day in Luang Prabang and one less in Bangkok. I suspect I will be returning to SE Asia in the future so it's not like this is my only chance to visit Vientiane. I like the idea of staying at a nicer hotel in Bangkok to decompress before the very long trip home which includes a 6 hour layover at Narita and some very long flights. I have not made the reservations with BA yet so I'm not locked into any flights yet other than the trans Pacific ones. I'm thinking 6 months in advance for the Discovery Airpass and flights should be enough time to get things booked before the flights fill up.

Agree that LP is VERY touristy but still a good place to relax. I don't get the attraction to Vientiane.

My two cents about "how much time do I need in Siem Reap":

When visitors to this area start calculating how many days they need based on how many temples they can bear to visit, they end up missing the magic of the country entirely.

Break up your touring with visits to the countryside; go swimming in the waterfalls at Phnom Kulen, hike up to Kbal Spean, spend a lazy afternoon at the Baray; take a trip further afield to Bang Melea or Koh Ker; enjoy a bike ride down a shady dirt road; get invited to a wedding (got $20? it's easy!) sit in a local beer joint and watch TV with the locals, get an $8 massage; whatever, just spread it out a little bit. Straight touring can be exhausting and in no way gives you a feel for the country.

You know about the temple passes being extended, right?

Yes, offwego, I know about the temple pass not having to be consecutive days. We'll get a 3 day pass for the 5 days there and split up temple touring so it's not every day in a row. The plan for Siem Riep includes a day away at Beng Melea and Ko Ker. Also a half day at Tonle Sap. Of course I'll be getting a massage very day when they only cost $8!

If I'm using a guide for visiting the temples (John Teng) do I still need Dawn Rooney's book? Or is it mostly history and background?

"I don't get the attraction to Vientiane." -

Two of the most important temples in Laos.
Talat Sao.
The new China Market.
French colonial architecture.
Buddha Park.
Some of the best restaurants in Indo China.
Short trip to Talat and or Thanon for lunch on the river.

I've run into a snag with my trip planning. I had decided on itinerary B, skipping Vientiane this trip. There is no direct flight REP-LPG on March 7, which is a Sunday. We'd have to back track through Bangkok adding an extra flight segment and almost $200 each to the Discovery Airpass. So it's stay in REP one day and a half longer taking QV 523 on March 8 3:00pm-6:15pm into LP and 2 nights/one day in Luang Prabang, or leave SR on March 6 and stay REP for 4 nights/4 days and LP 4 nights/3 days. My husband is thinking longer in SR, less in LP. But he has done no reading or research on this trip.

What do you all think? because of thee late afternoon flight, the day we fly gives us a solid half day for temple or other touring, something close in.

I wouldn't go to LP for 2 nights/one day. IMO, your time would be wasted. Either spend enough time to experience some of it or cut it.

Siem Reap for 4 nights/4 days and LP 4 nights/3 days is a better option.

Susiesan, this kind of itinerary adjustment to use the Discovery Airpass is very familiar to me. I agree with Kathie: go for 4 nights in each of Siem Reap and Luang Prabang.
As for your question above about Dawn Rooney's book: it is very comprehensive and great for research. In my case, I used it more after seeing the temples. For actual on-the-ground utility, Nick Ray's *Angkor Wat & Siem Reap: Encounter*, published by Lonely Planet in 2008 is terrifically handy. It's pocket size; very attractive, but not overwhelming. The photos and maps of the temple are accessible and user-friendly.

After seeing what Kathie and WillJame said, here is my revision to itinerary B:

Arrival Phnom Penh on KA 206 at 10:30am 2/27/09, check in hotel Pavillon
Day 1 2/27 PNH
Day 2 2/28 PNH
Day 3 3/1 PNH
Day 4 3/2 fly PNH-REP PG 992 9:35-1015am, check in hotel Bopha Angkor
start touring temples in afternoon with guide John Teng
Day 5 3/3 REP
Day 6 3/4 REP
Day 7 3/5 REP
Day 8 3/6 fly REP-LPG QV 523 3:00-615pm, check in hotel (undetermined)
Day 9 3/7 LPQ
Day 10 3/8 LPQ
Day 11 3/9 LPQ
Day 12 3/10 fly LPQ-BKK PG 942 12:10-2:15pm, check in hotel (undetermined, considering Centrepoint Silom)
Day 13 3/11 BKK
Day 14 3/12 BKK
Day 15 3/13 fly BKK-NRT 11:00pm ticketed

I have not ticketed the Discovery Airpass yet. I need to get a revised price. When it's 6 months to leaving the US I'll go ahead and get the BA tickets and travel insurance.

So how's this look now?

much better, but get going on the LP hotel...its tough there

Yes, this is much better. You're really fine-tuning this. I agree with Bob, though, about booking your hotel in LP soon.

The web sites for booking Laos, agoda, asiarooms, and directrooms do not have much showing as available for March 2010 yet. I've got it narrowed down to the Lotus Villa or Muang Luang (because of the pool) Right now, this can only be booked via directrooms.com through the end of 2009. Lotus Villa is on agoda as available, but I've never used that web site and don't know if my CC gets charged when I make the reservation or if it is just a booking.

Do you know any other web sites for booking in LP 6 months out?