Great Wall which Section?
Feb 28th, 2005, 12:31 PM
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Great Wall which Section?
I just read in one of the guides there is a section called Juyongguan which they suggest as an alternative to the touristy Badaling. It's actually closer to Beijing. Anyone been there? What do you think? Is it steep to get up to it?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Feb 28th, 2005, 01:16 PM
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The way I understand it, Juyongguan is the "gate" at the Badaling Great Wall. It's not a section of the wall, but the gate/pass that's just south of the wall itself.
If you don't want to go to Badaling, then the most popular alternatives are Mutianyu and Simatai/Jianshanling. Both further away from Beijing than Badaling.
If you don't want to go to Badaling, then the most popular alternatives are Mutianyu and Simatai/Jianshanling. Both further away from Beijing than Badaling.
Feb 28th, 2005, 02:49 PM
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rkkwan,
Hmmm. The guide says, "Lying just 6 miles south of the Great Wall at Badaling, Juyongguan has become a popular alternative to the more crowded sections of the old wall." "Here a 3 km section of the old wall was renovated under an extensive 5-year program."
Sounds like a separate part, though I may be reading it wrong. I had never heard of this section before.
Hmmm. The guide says, "Lying just 6 miles south of the Great Wall at Badaling, Juyongguan has become a popular alternative to the more crowded sections of the old wall." "Here a 3 km section of the old wall was renovated under an extensive 5-year program."
Sounds like a separate part, though I may be reading it wrong. I had never heard of this section before.
Feb 28th, 2005, 03:37 PM
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Yes, I understand there's a seperate section of the wall near the gate/pass. Didn't know they're restoring that section, but I doubt it's as scenic or dramatic as the main Badaling section just a few km away. So, why travel dozens of km to visit the wall, but just stop short from the main section?
True, crowd is a major problem there, but I'd suggest you go to the other sections instead.
True, crowd is a major problem there, but I'd suggest you go to the other sections instead.
Mar 1st, 2005, 12:26 AM
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LiC-
For the 1st timer in Beijing, I strongly suggest the "Badaling Entrance" irrespective of the number of tourists.
The trick is to start early say by 7.30 or 8am (also helps to avoid any traffic congestion if staying in the city centre)& proceed directly to Badaling.
You may cover the Ming Tombs & other sights if visiting these on the same day, only after you finish "riding" the Wall!
For the 1st timer in Beijing, I strongly suggest the "Badaling Entrance" irrespective of the number of tourists.
The trick is to start early say by 7.30 or 8am (also helps to avoid any traffic congestion if staying in the city centre)& proceed directly to Badaling.
You may cover the Ming Tombs & other sights if visiting these on the same day, only after you finish "riding" the Wall!
Mar 1st, 2005, 02:39 PM
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I somewhat disagree. Badaling is fine. Ming tombs are a waste of time. If one combines an early arrival at Badaling with a visit to the summer palace or Fragrant Hills park, that is a good way to see a lot in one day.
Mutianyu is (in my opinion) better than Badaling, and Simatai/Jianshanling is outstanding is one is able to hike long distances.
All have trams to take people to the wall. If you want to walk up and do not want to be challenged to a degree, then go to Badaling, enter, and turn right to climb the wall.
Mutianyu is (in my opinion) better than Badaling, and Simatai/Jianshanling is outstanding is one is able to hike long distances.
All have trams to take people to the wall. If you want to walk up and do not want to be challenged to a degree, then go to Badaling, enter, and turn right to climb the wall.
Mar 3rd, 2005, 10:45 AM
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LostinChina,
I don't think you willbe at all sorry if you go to the Badaling section and plan to be there by 8am. There are two motor driven ways to the wallbase, plus you can walk to the top. We took the pull car. It is closest to the main entrance. It was fine and the free fall going down was fun. We were the only people on the contraption both going up and down. But a line was being to form as we came down.
We did that last Oct 31st. There was no one on the wall when we got there. It was great-the area is beautiful. We stayed about 90 minutes. There were no venders till about 9 and maybe a dozen people spread out as far as you could see. We went to the right first, looked easier for me, but the slope gets steep and it was slippery from the rain the night before. I have knee problems and it is hard for me to go down hill or climb stairs so we went back down to where we started. My husband climbed up the left to the first tower. Again the steps were uneven and some are very steep so I didn't go all the way with him. He got some beautiful pictuers of the great expance or the wall and mountains that were in full fall color. One of the other visitors took a great picture of my husband at the tower and the view is great!
Even if all you do is stand on the wall where you first reach the top, the view and the wall are unbelievable. There are some uneven steps and walk area after you get off the cars at the base of the wall.
Just go early and beat the crowds. The tour groups were getting there when we left about 9:30. It will also give you much more time to see the sites in Beijing.
We went to Summer Palace on the way back to town and spent a couple of hours there. Had lunch then went to T. Square and the Forbidden City for probably three hours. After that we walked around in the old section in front of T Square and did a little shopping at some art supply stores I had heard about.
We had arranged a car, driver and guide before we left the US. Agreed on 12 hours at $80 for the two of us. Some say we could have gotten a better price making the arrangement on site, but not sure we could have seen as much and the service was good. The guide was a college student and very willing to get us involed in any thing we showed intertest in as we went along. We actually used thewm again fron 7 to 12 the net day too. I had sent a plan of what we wanted to do. We had not planned the Forbidden City and T Square for that day, but things went so smoothly (no forced shopping stops!) and since our time was limited we did those too. That gave ous time for some extra things the next day.
Hope this helps.
I don't think you willbe at all sorry if you go to the Badaling section and plan to be there by 8am. There are two motor driven ways to the wallbase, plus you can walk to the top. We took the pull car. It is closest to the main entrance. It was fine and the free fall going down was fun. We were the only people on the contraption both going up and down. But a line was being to form as we came down.
We did that last Oct 31st. There was no one on the wall when we got there. It was great-the area is beautiful. We stayed about 90 minutes. There were no venders till about 9 and maybe a dozen people spread out as far as you could see. We went to the right first, looked easier for me, but the slope gets steep and it was slippery from the rain the night before. I have knee problems and it is hard for me to go down hill or climb stairs so we went back down to where we started. My husband climbed up the left to the first tower. Again the steps were uneven and some are very steep so I didn't go all the way with him. He got some beautiful pictuers of the great expance or the wall and mountains that were in full fall color. One of the other visitors took a great picture of my husband at the tower and the view is great!
Even if all you do is stand on the wall where you first reach the top, the view and the wall are unbelievable. There are some uneven steps and walk area after you get off the cars at the base of the wall.
Just go early and beat the crowds. The tour groups were getting there when we left about 9:30. It will also give you much more time to see the sites in Beijing.
We went to Summer Palace on the way back to town and spent a couple of hours there. Had lunch then went to T. Square and the Forbidden City for probably three hours. After that we walked around in the old section in front of T Square and did a little shopping at some art supply stores I had heard about.
We had arranged a car, driver and guide before we left the US. Agreed on 12 hours at $80 for the two of us. Some say we could have gotten a better price making the arrangement on site, but not sure we could have seen as much and the service was good. The guide was a college student and very willing to get us involed in any thing we showed intertest in as we went along. We actually used thewm again fron 7 to 12 the net day too. I had sent a plan of what we wanted to do. We had not planned the Forbidden City and T Square for that day, but things went so smoothly (no forced shopping stops!) and since our time was limited we did those too. That gave ous time for some extra things the next day.
Hope this helps.
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:05 PM
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Hi,
The pull cars were manned when we got there about 8:30. It was the two of us, the driver and the guy at the top. By the time we went down there were more workers at the starting point. I think I read in a Badaling information site on the Internet the wall offically opens at 7. If the cars are not running you can still get to the wall by walking up. The entrance tickets to the wall were sold near the top.
By the way Juyongguan is on your way to Badaling. The "Gate" part can be seen from the road, in fact, as I remember the wall up from the gate is about the first part that you can see. The wallsections go straight up from a large stone fortress looking gate. Type in Juyongguan pictures on your search engine. Someone has posted good pictures of all the sections.
I couldn't tell much difference in his pictures of the different sites and the ones we took of Badaling. I think it is more a matter of distance (time) restoration and crowds. The Wall(any part) is incredible and the county side is all beautiful.
We had no crowds and any less restored, I could not have walled as much as I did. Most people will not have a problem seeing as much of this section as they want. The next closest section is about the same condition as where we went but it is more distant and a different direction. There for not as easy to combine with a visit to Summer Palace and not doable with our limited time.
The pull cars were manned when we got there about 8:30. It was the two of us, the driver and the guy at the top. By the time we went down there were more workers at the starting point. I think I read in a Badaling information site on the Internet the wall offically opens at 7. If the cars are not running you can still get to the wall by walking up. The entrance tickets to the wall were sold near the top.
By the way Juyongguan is on your way to Badaling. The "Gate" part can be seen from the road, in fact, as I remember the wall up from the gate is about the first part that you can see. The wallsections go straight up from a large stone fortress looking gate. Type in Juyongguan pictures on your search engine. Someone has posted good pictures of all the sections.
I couldn't tell much difference in his pictures of the different sites and the ones we took of Badaling. I think it is more a matter of distance (time) restoration and crowds. The Wall(any part) is incredible and the county side is all beautiful.
We had no crowds and any less restored, I could not have walled as much as I did. Most people will not have a problem seeing as much of this section as they want. The next closest section is about the same condition as where we went but it is more distant and a different direction. There for not as easy to combine with a visit to Summer Palace and not doable with our limited time.
Mar 3rd, 2005, 07:09 PM
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cwn: read your thoughts with great interest. How did you arrange for a car and a driver in Beijing? We're (family of 5 - all adults) leaving in a couple of weeks for Shanghai - 3 nites and Beijing -5 nites. We've decided to switch from the St Regis to the Peninsula in Beijing (location) and thought the Concierge might help us with the car/driver to the Wall and Summer Palace.
Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!
Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!
Mar 3rd, 2005, 07:17 PM
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I vote for Mutianyu. Seems like most all tourists still head for Badaling, even though those who have been to both say Mutianyu is superior. I thought it was really spectacular and majestic, and without all the crowds and mass tourism of Badaling. Mutianyu is quiet and peaceful with incredible views. In my opinion, it's the true Great Wall experience, but then again I don't like crowds and prefer to do things a little differently. I think it's worth the extra time and expense to make it to one of the more remote sections, like Mutianyu.
Mar 3rd, 2005, 09:18 PM
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Hi,
Glad I cna offer helpful ideas. I received so many last summer and fall on our first Asia trip.
DMary: We used www.ineedhotel.com. and the contact person was Harrison Wang. His internet address just changed. This is the new one. We stayed at the Swissotel, they recommended him. I sent a detailed list of what we wanted to see in our full day and part of the next. It was truly a wish list at first and I knew that. He said that it was doable maybe. We did it all and some more because we got an early start both days. I found a few other ideas later from this board that I told the guide about on the first day. The best of the best for us was our early mornig trip to the Temple of Heaven Park the second day.(A suggestion from a board member) Our guide acted as translator and we had a wonderful time talking with and learning from the people out for their morning exercise. We messed around in the park for over an hour and visited with the locals.
The main thing is to insist on no shopping stops from the very first contact-unless they are places you have asked to see and get a email itinery from Harrsion. The driver tried to stop at a factory on the way back to SummerPalace, but I said that was not the deal and that was the end of it.
Our Hotel was part of the cruise package, but it was very nice. Some on the ship stayed at the Pen and said it was a good location. With our driver, our second ring location wasn't bad especially coming into and leaving Beijing. Harrison's group was good, but I am sure the Pen can help you too or you can hire a taxi on our own. I think if we had had more time we would have hired some taxis. But for a short first visit, I am glad we had our guide, she was funny and willing to do what we wanted. We enen went to a shopping area we hadn't been too, and she could speak the languaue, so we all had a ball talking to ghe shopkeepers. There was absolutely no stress for us.
The beijing stay set the stage for our two days in Shanghai with taxis, maps and sign language. That was great fun too, just a little less organized. I do feel that Shanghai was easier to get around on foot and the assorted taxi rides. Or maybe it was just "experience"!?
Mealeu:
Many posters told me the same thing about Badaling- crowds and touristy. It would be a mistake to go there etc. We don't like crowds and venders either. Money was not an issue, but time was and there was nothing we could do about that.
I was very worried about the crowds especially, as that has ruined more than venture for us.
The bottom line for us was that we wanted to see the wall and some other places too! Any way, as some one said that's the section the Chinese show off! Two posters told us to go early. We did and there were NO people and No venders not even the "famous" camel for that "special" picture for a good long while! Badaling was quite, peacefull and definitely majestic and spectacular. Plus we did not waste another tw hours on the road and were able to see other things too in our limited time!
I don't know when you went to Mutianyu, but a couple we knew on the Nov cruise also spent a week in Beijing. They went to Mutianyu and were disappointed because there were venders and other tourist stuff there now.
I think it may truely be a case of timing is every thing! In my book, A section of the great wall is a must see if you go to Beijing. Pick the one thats works the best for you, all sections have their own special beauty, given the pictures our ship mates were passing around of the different sections visited by different people.
Glad I cna offer helpful ideas. I received so many last summer and fall on our first Asia trip.
DMary: We used www.ineedhotel.com. and the contact person was Harrison Wang. His internet address just changed. This is the new one. We stayed at the Swissotel, they recommended him. I sent a detailed list of what we wanted to see in our full day and part of the next. It was truly a wish list at first and I knew that. He said that it was doable maybe. We did it all and some more because we got an early start both days. I found a few other ideas later from this board that I told the guide about on the first day. The best of the best for us was our early mornig trip to the Temple of Heaven Park the second day.(A suggestion from a board member) Our guide acted as translator and we had a wonderful time talking with and learning from the people out for their morning exercise. We messed around in the park for over an hour and visited with the locals.
The main thing is to insist on no shopping stops from the very first contact-unless they are places you have asked to see and get a email itinery from Harrsion. The driver tried to stop at a factory on the way back to SummerPalace, but I said that was not the deal and that was the end of it.
Our Hotel was part of the cruise package, but it was very nice. Some on the ship stayed at the Pen and said it was a good location. With our driver, our second ring location wasn't bad especially coming into and leaving Beijing. Harrison's group was good, but I am sure the Pen can help you too or you can hire a taxi on our own. I think if we had had more time we would have hired some taxis. But for a short first visit, I am glad we had our guide, she was funny and willing to do what we wanted. We enen went to a shopping area we hadn't been too, and she could speak the languaue, so we all had a ball talking to ghe shopkeepers. There was absolutely no stress for us.
The beijing stay set the stage for our two days in Shanghai with taxis, maps and sign language. That was great fun too, just a little less organized. I do feel that Shanghai was easier to get around on foot and the assorted taxi rides. Or maybe it was just "experience"!?
Mealeu:
Many posters told me the same thing about Badaling- crowds and touristy. It would be a mistake to go there etc. We don't like crowds and venders either. Money was not an issue, but time was and there was nothing we could do about that.
I was very worried about the crowds especially, as that has ruined more than venture for us.
The bottom line for us was that we wanted to see the wall and some other places too! Any way, as some one said that's the section the Chinese show off! Two posters told us to go early. We did and there were NO people and No venders not even the "famous" camel for that "special" picture for a good long while! Badaling was quite, peacefull and definitely majestic and spectacular. Plus we did not waste another tw hours on the road and were able to see other things too in our limited time!
I don't know when you went to Mutianyu, but a couple we knew on the Nov cruise also spent a week in Beijing. They went to Mutianyu and were disappointed because there were venders and other tourist stuff there now.
I think it may truely be a case of timing is every thing! In my book, A section of the great wall is a must see if you go to Beijing. Pick the one thats works the best for you, all sections have their own special beauty, given the pictures our ship mates were passing around of the different sections visited by different people.
Mar 17th, 2005, 01:37 PM
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CWN - We are e-mailing back and forth with Harrison Wang regarding hotels and guides for a trip April 1-11. We have just a short time and I would love to see your itinerary that you provided to Mr. Wang, as it sounds like it was perfect. We are taking our two daughters (13 and 15) so I want to have a good plan in advance - not too much downtime and not too much running around. Also, we travel so frequently and we hate the factory stops. Glad you let me know that I should indicate this in my itinerary. My e-mail is [email protected] if you want to send it directly. Sure appreciate it!!!
Mar 17th, 2005, 09:35 PM
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DMary -
We stayed at the Peniusla last summer - great hotel and wonderful location. They arraned for a driver for us to go to the Mutanyu section of the Great Wall. The cost for the 4 of us was about $100. Well worth the $$$$. Yours might be more if a slightly larger car is needed.
I would also recommend - as previously noted - to make it clear at the start if you don't want to stop at any shops. We stopped for a drink along the way that "just happened" to be at a cloisonee factory. We politely said no and went on our way.
We loved the Mutanyu section. It was not very crowded and we even got our family Christmas card photo - with NO ONE in the background. We had that section all to ourselves! And definitley take the luge ride back down to the bottom - great fun for all!
As for food - there is a little restaurant right across the street from the Peninsula. I don't remember the name, but it is right next to another hotel which has a restaurant. There was only 1 young girl who spoke English and they had to hunt for the "English" menu - but the food was great. The potions, however, were quite large - so order dishes with the idea of sharing!
We stayed at the Peniusla last summer - great hotel and wonderful location. They arraned for a driver for us to go to the Mutanyu section of the Great Wall. The cost for the 4 of us was about $100. Well worth the $$$$. Yours might be more if a slightly larger car is needed.
I would also recommend - as previously noted - to make it clear at the start if you don't want to stop at any shops. We stopped for a drink along the way that "just happened" to be at a cloisonee factory. We politely said no and went on our way.
We loved the Mutanyu section. It was not very crowded and we even got our family Christmas card photo - with NO ONE in the background. We had that section all to ourselves! And definitley take the luge ride back down to the bottom - great fun for all!
As for food - there is a little restaurant right across the street from the Peninsula. I don't remember the name, but it is right next to another hotel which has a restaurant. There was only 1 young girl who spoke English and they had to hunt for the "English" menu - but the food was great. The potions, however, were quite large - so order dishes with the idea of sharing!
Mar 18th, 2005, 07:52 PM
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grcxx3:
Thanks for the tips - we are definitely a group that does not appreciate crowds but then again we're going to China and I am not sure how we'll be able to avoid "crowds"! We are planning on going to Mutianyu and we're also planning on leaving as early as we can. Is the Luge only available at Mutianyu?
The van and guide provided by Harrison Wang at ineedhotel.com will cost us $125 total - not sure how good a deal that is but comparing the amount to what we would have to pay for a private car and guide here in California for the day, it seems "cheap".
Wish you could remember the name of the restaurant but will try and look out for it. Thanks again!
Thanks for the tips - we are definitely a group that does not appreciate crowds but then again we're going to China and I am not sure how we'll be able to avoid "crowds"! We are planning on going to Mutianyu and we're also planning on leaving as early as we can. Is the Luge only available at Mutianyu?
The van and guide provided by Harrison Wang at ineedhotel.com will cost us $125 total - not sure how good a deal that is but comparing the amount to what we would have to pay for a private car and guide here in California for the day, it seems "cheap".
Wish you could remember the name of the restaurant but will try and look out for it. Thanks again!
