Good Expat - getting ready to live in Asia forum?
 

I thought some of you might know some good web sites for planning to live in SE Asia. I know that's rather a general questions but, there is a distinctly good possibility my hsb will be offered a transfer next year to one of the 4S in Asia. As I handle all our finances and living/moving details -- I figured I better start reading up now so I can come up with a list of questions for him to ask HR and things I need to know.
Needless to say, I am rather beside myself with joy, mixed with a healthy case of OMG how do I do this. Though certain country requirements will be different, I figure some things are the same.

You might try this one. Its all about Thai, but im sure it has some good info on Asia in general also. http://www.thaivisa.com/

Even if you're not British, you might have a look at http://www.britishexpat.com. I occassionally consult it myself. Kay, the owner, currently lives in Pattaya.

If you end up coming here to Thailand, I can give you some personaly contacts by email.

there is that book, which name i forget, written about things you need to know and do as an expat in thailand....its quite interesting...

someone will mention its title...

the main thing that comes to my mind is maid and driver....

jen, Expat packages and information pertaining thereof vary WIDELY from country to country. If you end up in Japan, Hong Kong or Singapore for example tons of information is available. The local AmCham offices are a very good place to start.

If, on the otherhand, you're targetting an off the beaten track country like Indonesia or Cambodia you will have to dig deeper and basically design a custom package.

If your husband's organization has a history of relocating and supporting expatriates, then they will most likely have policies and procedures already in place. You can use these as a STARTING PLACE.

What you need to do is to find out first what they offer, then take it from there. Develop a wish list of what you absolutely must have, want, and don't much care about. Don't be rushed and don't be bullied. Every family's needs and priorities are different and (from my experience) those HR types want to standardize.

The basics are salary, accommodation, homeleave, health insurance and severance policy. On top of that are those oh so critical extras.

The main difference between what you get paid in the US and abroad will be your tax liability, both US and your host country. Look into this VERY carefully. The cost of tax preparation should also be included.

Go slowly on establishing your accommodation budget. You need to get to the place and see for yourself what's available. In some countries leases are held by the company not the individual; this can be either positive and negative depending on your situation. In some countries long term leases must be paid upfront years at a time; deposits which can come to thousands of dollars most definitely will be required. Who pays?

Appliances are not commonly included in Asian homes. Furnishing allowances are normal.

Homeleave is also standard. How often, what class? What about emergencies? Can you substitute vacation travel to another place? If you don't have a home in the US you most likely be responsible for paying for accommodation during your homeleave which, believe me, adds up.

Insurance is extremely important, including coverage for evacuation. HR departments are often clueless about what health care is like outside of the US.

Have an iron clad exit plan, what you do if things don't work out. Will your husband be guaranteed a job somewhere else in the organization? How long will you have to vacate? Will the company pay for relocation, storage?

After that you get into the fun stuff:
car, driver, security guards, electricity allowance, club memberships. . .

If you have children (or expect to have them) that's a whole other project.

Good luck and let us know. :)

Before you worry too much about a maid and driver, your first consideration will be to find out what the company will cover in terms of the move....how much in sea shipment, how much in air shipment, how much time allowed in temp housing housing before you find a permanent house or apt, and if they will retain the services of a relocation company to help you get settled.

Next most important is how your housing allowance will work, schooling costs for children if they will accompany you, how will health care insurance and emergency evac coverage be handled, and what is offered in terms of travel costs for annual home leave visits.

Also of extreme importance is whether you will be given tax equalization, otherwise known as "grossing up" your husband's salary. As a US citizen, you will pay local taxes as applicable, but also still be paying US taxes on a portion of your income (a larger portion now, thanks to a very sneaky bill passed by the last Congress.) Find out if the company will cover the higher cost of preparing complicated tax returns in 2 countries.

Expat packages vary wildly. Other items that may be included are club memberships, utilities, local monthly transportation allowance or car (if so, ask about insurance and maintenance costs). Some packages provide drivers in cities like Shanghai, where you can't drive yourself. In places like Singapore and Tokyo, where it's easy to drive yourself and you have excellent public transport, very few people get drivers. I know many expats all over Asia, including CEOs and Managing Directors and none of them have maids paid for by the company. But that's so inexpensive compared to the US, I would worry about that issue LAST, after all of the above.

I have looked at most of the expat websites over the years and found them generally not to be very helpful. They are not updated often enough and in some cases, I have seen information that is just plain wrong. Your best bet is to find an expat buddy wife from inside your own company....someone who is already there and has experienced what you are about to do. She can give you all the little insider tips that will never show up on a website. If you start corresponding with her by email, you will already have one friend before you arrive. :)

Just my .02 worth after 10 years of being an expat....3 in Sydney and 6 in Singapore.

let me know if you have any other questions.

Just saw Marmot's reply, after mine posted. We must have been typing at the same time.

Obviously great minds think alike!! :)

I think the book Bob is refering to is "Culture Shock: Thailand", which is a good primer on finding your way here. It's part of a series that has titles covering many other countries.

There are actually a lot of books geared towards helping expats get settled in Thailand, but many of them are local titles.

The advice on contacting AmCham is also good.

First, thank you everyone who has responded. Bob I so wish maid and driver were my first considerations! Oh sweet bliss that would be.

Marmot and Lindsey -- thank you both so much -- you cut to the quick of what I was grappling with as I was typing my list of questions for my hsb's hr people and trying to make sense of the IRS site. I'll be in touch with our accountant once she's past tax crunch deadlines. I'm going to incorporate both of your posts into my working document so we remember to ask all the right questions as we go along. Taxes, health insurance, housing and moving expenses had made the list, but I hadn't thought about homeleave and had not thought exit strategy which I realize is naive -- most contracts are 2 years and they rarely move people like this unless they plan to keep them, but yes, we should think about that too. Right now we're thinking to rent our house and store furniture for the first year and then reevaluate. That alone will be enough of a nightmare to organize.
No kids -- so that's the easy part.
I think you're both right about the web sites from what I've read tonight.

Again, thank you everyone.

jen, I moved overseas twice -- from New York to Hong Kong and from Hong Kong to Jakarta. The individual situations -- costs and difficulties -- were wildly different.

Severance agreements are, to me, as important as health insurance. Get everything in writing as the people who promise to take care of you may not be around when a crisis develops.

Lindsay's point about temporary housing while you find your permanent is also very important. Both times we moved we ended up in a temporary apartment much, much longer than anticipated.

No kids simplifies things. Don't forget about pets. :)

It's stressful but very exciting!

This site has some helpful information regarding living overseas.

http://www.escapeartist.com

Michael -- wanted to come back and say thank you for the offer re: Thailand -- that is a distinct possibility so I'm grateful.

Marmot -- yes, we do have a pet. She's an elderly kitty and I'm not sure what we will do about that. Have done some research but the climate issues and travel stress for her concerns me.

I ended up getting my husband to read through everything you and Lindsey said as you both said it so well. You probably don't want to go into alot of personal information online but I've always wondered what you do as you've commented about meeting clients.

I am very excited. Dragging my husband off to SE Asia for two years running was not without it's ulterior motives :)

Exit strategy can work both ways. What if the company is ready to bring you home, and you don't want to go? I know more than a few expats here in Bangkok who came with an MNC and then jumped ship when the company wanted to 'promote' them out of the country.

One of the more prominent ones is the former country manager for Marriott.

Michael, I was going to say exactly the same thing! It IS common and in fact it happened to me. The US company that moved me to Hong Kong went bankrupt and I stayed on with another company which led to no end of complication with apartment lease, tax payment, visas, school fees etc.

We know lots of people who have done that as well.....in Singapore it's relatively easy to gain "PR" status...i.e. Permanent Resident, not on a work permit sponsored by a particular company. A lot of people end up liking it so much that when their company contract is over, they "go local" and find another job here, to stay on for the lifestyle.

One other thing I forgot to mention, that many companies offer and it can really be helpful, is the "look see trip." Some companies will send you over before you sign the contract, to make sure you fully understand what you are getting into. Others will send you just after you sign the contract, for you to see the type of housing and amenities available, look at schools (not applicable in your case) and other facilities and generally plan your move. For example, if you can actually SEE the type of apartment or house where you might be living, it is tremendously helpful in deciding what to bring and what to leave.

If you are planning to put things into storage, be sure to check the cost of insurance. It's generally much higher than the actual cost of the storage and some companies don't pay it.

The book Bob is referring to is called "The Bangkok Survivor's Handbook" by Robert Hein. It's really more oriented toward someone who decides to move to Bangkok without a company footing the bill. It is still useful, though, if Bangkok ends up being where you move (I'm so envious!). It has lots of pragmatic info about things I'd never thought about!

When we were in Bangkok in November, we picked up a book called "Living and Working in Bangkok" The Pricewaterhousecooper's guide for expatriates. I would assume they have guides for many places. This is exactly the info you need to negotiate with your company. It's also the guide you need when you get there as it tells what you need to know for phone service, and all those other things you'll need.

Thanks Kathie, I've pasted the post into my growing file and will check both of those out. Sounds like you're thinking about this too :)

I'm glad we're talking some time next year earliest as I think I have a lot to learn to get ready, not least trading my car lease and building up a good emergency fund.

Jenskar,
Your mention of an emergency fund reminded me of yet another issue to discuss with HR....the currency in which you will be paid. If you negotiate your package in $US, and are paid in the local currency, your "real salary" could fluctuate with the exchange rate.
Some companies will allow you to split your salary payment.....so that you keep only enough money to live on in local currency and the rest is direct deposited in US$ into a US bank.

Also be sure to look into how you will manage your money in your new city. For example, even though Singapore would like to think of itself as a financial hub in Asia, consumer banking here is very archaic. Wire transfers, and checking account fees are very high compared to the US, and service is very minimal. And....hold on for this one...you would not be allowed to open a bank account or obtain a credit card ( or even a cell phone for that matter) if your husband is the work pass holder. He must sign for everything. As far as the govt here is concerned, you are only an appendage to him and have no status. THAT concept took me some time to get used to.

You also have not mentioned if you plan to look for a job in Asia. You may want to check on whether you would be allowed to do this or not in your new location.....it does vary.

Lindsey or marmot -- could I email either of you? Here's mine:
jenskar @ u2.com

Your post just mentions “Asia” so I am not going to automatically assume that you mean Thailand. A good place to start a search on living in another country generally is the American Women's Association in the various potential places to which you may be posted. I belonged to these group in Hong Kong and Singapore (and a similar organization in Zurich) and found them useful and fun. In addition to advice on living in a city/country, they have language classes, cooking classes, workshops and sponsor good trips. There websites usually have a board where you can post questions also. You do not have to be a US citizen to join.

Hong Kong: http://www.awa.org.hk.
Singapore: http://www.awasingapore.org/
Thailand: http://www.awcthailand.org/
Mumbai: http://www.awcbombay.com/ (4S opening late 2007)

Other sites you may find useful

www.expatexchange.com
www.expat-essentials.com
www.expatforum.com
www.expatnetwork.com
www.escapeartist.com/expatriate1/expatriate1.htm
www.outpostexpat.nl

The "Culture Shock! series mentioned above are written on virtually every country in the world, and provide a fairly comprehensive and in my view accurate picture of culture and customs in each country. It is part of the Culture Shock series of books published by Graphic Arts Center Publishing Company . You can buy them on line from Amazon or your local bookstore can order it for you.

If you have already moved internationally with 4S you may already know their polices for international moves, many companies (including my own) have very set polices on these things. You should ask to see these policies. Length of paid stay in temporary housing, amount of your clothing or household goods which can be sent by air versus ship, relocation payments, currency of your husband’s salary, etc all may be fixed or may be negotiable. These would be important to know. Many companies offer things like one-time payments for relocation to learn local languages, buy appliances in different voltages, etc. Your husband should get all this information.

They may not agree to pay for the move of pets (many companies do not), so you may have to foot this bill yourself. Also look into quarantine issues, sometimes the quarantine is quite long (like in Hong Kong) and it may actually be preferable to leave the pet with a relative rather than subject an old or ill pet to 6 weeks or longer in quarantine.