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Finalizing Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand itinerary
Hello all,
We finally bought our international tickets to SE Asia this summer (end of July - middle of August), and now beginning to finalize our plans. We are flying from the States into Hanoi, and from Bangkok back to the States. We have 20 days total (not including travel days) and would appreciate any advice you can give me on this itinerary. We are 2 30-something females who love to travel independently - adventure, culture, etc. Do not care as much about shopping (sure we will do a little of that) and food (we plan to save money here!) Day 1: all day in Hanoi (we arrive in Hanoi late the previous night) Day 2 - 3: overnight on Halong Bay Day 4 - day in Hanoi - leave that night for Sapa (overnight train) Day 5 - 6: Sapa Day 7: arrive in Hanoi in early morning (overnight train from Sapa) Day 7 - 13: ?????? Day 13 - 15: Angkor Wat Day 16: fly from Siem Riep to Bangkok. Fly from Bangkok to Krabi. Day 17 - 20: exploring Krabi and surrounding areas Day 21: fly from Krabi to Bangkok to catch international flight back to States Day 7 - 13??? We are debating between Phnom Penh, HCMC, and Central Vietnam (Hue, Hoi An). We originally had all 3 in our itinerary, but know that this is not possible. We would rather relax and enjoy fewer places, than run ourselves ragged by trying to do too much. The number of days are not set - these are just preliminary guesses. Should we spend more/less time in any of these places? Should we purchase the airline tickets now (within Vietnam and from Vietnam to Cambodia and Thailand) or should we wait until we arrive in Hanoi? Is there a price difference? Do the seats sell out? We looked into the Handspan and Sing Café tours for both Sapa and Halong bay. Both look good, and I have read good reviews about both on this site. Thank you! |
I have several suggestions. First, my usual advice, slow down and experience SE Asia.
You are starting in Hanoi, but you spend almost no time there. Your first day, you'll be recovering from jet lag, so you won't do a lot. You take two trips out of Hanoi, one to Halong Bay, one to Sapa, but never really spend time in Hanoi. I'd suggest you add at least another day or two in Hanoi (unless you don't like cities at all). I spent a week in Hanoi in November and had a great time. To get from Hanoi to Siem Reap, you'll have to fly through HCMC. Do make sure you give yourself three full days (not including your travel time) in Siem Reap. Again, I spent a week in Siem Reap, but I'm very interested in the temples. Three days is enough time to see the major temples (though you'll miss many of the so-called minor temples where you might be the only visitor. Next you're headed for Bangkok, but you only make a plane connection there. I'd recommend that you spend some time in Bangkok unless you really dislike cities. Bangkok is one of the most amazing cities in the world. It has fabulous wats, incredible shopping, and some of the best food you'll find anywhere. You go on to Krabi, but this is the rainy season there. Do you really want to go to a rainy beach? If so, fine, but if not, consider a drier beach area (Koh Samui or Hua Hin, for instance). If I were you, I'd distribute your "extra" days across the destinations you've already planned, with the addition of spending some time in Bangkok. If you really dislike cities, then add in Luang Prabang, Laos instead of Bangkok. In 20 days, 4 destinations is plenty in SE Asia. You're also traveling during a VERY hot time of the year. It's always hot, but expect you won't be able to do as much as you are anticipating because of the heat. |
Hi-
I'd have to agree with Kathie above about not trying to do too much in the time you have. Don't underestimate how much the heat will take out of you (unfortunately, I always do :) ) I'd add in another day to Hanoi, and maybe another day in Sapa. Right now you only have 1 full day there. Also, even though the trains are overnight, whenever I've done this, I never sleep all that well and arrive more tired than I expect. I'd add in 2 more days to Bangkok (love that city!) as well. If the weather turns out to be bad on the Krabi side, you could always fly to Ko Samui instead. If you don't want to add days to existing destinations, then I'd head south in Vietnam to Hue and Hoi An, especially if you find you need to fly to Siem Reap from HCMC. I wasn't all that thrilled with Phnom Penh, but really liked Siem Reap. It's too bad you're not that interested in food, as you'll find some of the best food in the world available in Vietnam and Thailand (cheap!). You'll save $$ there without trying. From what I've read, it's cheaper to purchase the plane tickets within Vietnam, you just need to be flexable with your dates. You might want to get all that settled on your first day in Hanoi so you can plan the rest of the trip from there. I've been planning a 2 week trip to Vietnam myself (also for beginning of August) and will probably do the Handspan trip to Halong Bay as it seems like the nicest for the money. I've already spent quite a bit of time in Thailand and a week in Cambodia, so we won't be doing that this trip. If you're interested, check out my website for my trip to Cambodia and Thailand in 2002 http://www.wired2theworld.com The guide we used in Siem Reap is wonderful. Her name is Ponheary Ly and she comes very highly recommended on this message board. We also stayed in her guest house which was just fine. One last question, where are you flying from in the states, and did you find a good airfare? Have a great trip! |
Kathie mentioned that you ought to spend time in Bangkok unless you hate cities. To add some perspective abaout that, my wife and I <i>absolutely</i> hate cities. However, we loved Bangkok! I strongly encourage you to consider spending at least a few days there. Even if you hate cities as I do, you might find Bangkok to be a rare exception. (Venice is my one and only other exception, so far.)
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Kristina, your website is wonderful! It's a very nice combination of text and photos laid out in an easy-to-use format that is also easy on the eyes.
You can be assured that I'll use it in the future. When I do, I'll be in touch with you about other questions that might come to mind. |
Thank you all for the advice!!
Kathie - yes, once I typed up this report, I realized that we were rushing Hanoi. We plan to add an extra day there. I also think we should spend at least a full day in Bangkok. I've just heard conflicting reports. Some love it (as you and MikeBuckley do), but I have also heard from others that were not crazy about it. I guess that just goes to show you that everyone has different tastes! We are aware that this is the rainy season in Krabi, but are optimistic! This is one reason why we didn't want to purchase the flights yet - once we get down there we might change our minds, and didn't want to be stuck going to a rainy Krabi. We will keep Koh Samui and Hua Hin in mind, thank you. Do you know if there is rock climbing in those places like Krabi? My travel partner has the Thailand book now, so I don't have access to any of this information. I'll get it back from her in a few days. Kristina - I loved the website! I've been to many of the same places you have, and so I enjoyed your photographs. We went to Costa Rica in Jan 2003. I recognized the picture of El Novillo immediately! And slightly jealous that you saw Arenal Volcano. We had a "great view" from our hotel room (Arenal Pariaso) but it was so cloudy that we didn't see a thing! We also went to New Zealand this past Christmas, and many of your photographs are similar to ours! I spent some time in Malaysia, China and Taiwan about 12 years ago, so I enjoyed those reports too. When I have more time, I'll have to give it a more thorough reading. All of the information is great, and very helpful. We are actually spending 2 full days in Sapa. Is this enough? I know the train will be rough. Hopefully a little Ambien will make it easier! I didn't mean to imply that I wasn't interested in food. I am looking forward to some great seafood! I guess what I was trying to say was that we are not interested in spending a lot of money at upscale restaurants. We love to try new things - whether it is from a street vendor or a small hole in the wall. Thanks for the name of the guide in Angkor. I think I recognize that name from other posts. Is this something we can arrange when we get to Siem Riep? Or do we need to do this in advance? We also read that a great way to explore the temples is on bicycle - of course the heat my prevent us from doing this! Yes, the heat! We are aware of the heat. Unfortunately, this is the only time of the year we could go. We are both from Texas - I have lived in some very humid areas, traveled to India, etc. so we know what we have to look forward to. We are flying from Dallas to Japan, and Japan to Hanoi. No, it wasn't really a great price. Believe me, I searched! But I couldn't find anything for less than 1000. This is the only thing I HATE about travel. Two people can be on the exact same flight and purchase their seats for different amounts. We grew tired of searching for prices, so finally we just went through a consolidator and purchased a ticket for about 100 less than on the website. I am surprised that no one has suggested we go to the Mekong Delta. This is really the only reason we were going to HCMC. If we have time to add on one more place, would you all suggests HCMC or central Vietnam (Hue, Hoi An)? Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble, I am just very excited about this next adventure! |
Mike-
Thanks! I'm glad you like my site. Susan- About Bangkok, I've been quite a few times and what I've found is that it's the people who stay in the cheapo places in the backpacker ghetto of Khao San Rd. who say they hate it the most. I think (and I could be wrong here), the nicer the hotel, the more you like BKK. I think it's a great place to end a trip, so maybe you could spend your last 2 nights there instead. So much to see and do... South East Asia is the best place to try those little restaurants and eating on the street. If you eat on the street, make sure the meats are on ice and that the food is cooked to order for you and you should be fine. About Sapa-are you going to do a package or on your own? I was contemplating a package, but then I found a website for a place called the Mountain View Hotel and I think I may just do things through them: http://www.geocities.com/MountainViewSapa/ The rail tickets look to be about $12 each way for soft sleeper. About Siem Reap: Yes, if you want to use Ponheary as your guide, you'd do best to contact her now as she's often booked in advance. Her brother is also a recommended guide. I was there in July, and I cannot imagine bicycling in that heat. The distances are much farther than you'd think. We had a car and driver for $20 a day and the A/C in the waiting car was blessed relief, I swear. Well worth the money. I agree with you about the inequities of flight costs. However if you found something for around $1000 from Dallas, I think you did ok. I'm having a hard time finding anything under $1200 from LAX for when I want to go (unless I'm willing to fly Korean Air). BTW, have you bought a guidebook yet for Vietnam? Which one? I usually buy Lonely Planet, but I've heard the Rough Guide might be better. Sorry to Fodor's, but word is that it's out of date... For more info on Vietnam and Cambodia, you might try the Lonely Planet Thorntree message boards. Tons of info and a seperate one for Thailand. Keep us posted on what you decide. |
Kristina,
We were thinking about a package to Sapa - either Handspan or Sing cafe. Normally I don't like packages, but I figured it would be easiest. Now I am looking at the website that you gave me. As long as we can arrange trekking tours fairly easily, we might consider doing it on our own. That Mountain View Hotel looks nice. Ok, you talked me out of bicycles in Angkor! We have the Lonely Planet guide books for Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam, and have always found them very helpful. We used both Fodors and Lonely Planet for New Zealand, and while both were helpful, found that we relied on Lonely Planet a little more for hotels and restaurants (more in our price range) and Fodors a little more for other information. |
i will just add that i agree with much of what has been said above...do you have any appreciation of how tired you will be on day one after your flight from dallas?? you will be very tired ...and if you are then spending the next night on the train with little sleep---you are starting off on the wrong foot i fell....???
i too love bkk and think you should add time there...i would add ko samui..i think hua hin would bore you.... best advice: slow down a bit and enjoy |
We bought our flights within Vietnam when we arrived in Hanoi last year. We bought one flight at a travel agency (Buffalo Tours) and another through our hotel, the Anh Dao. It was much cheaper than the prices I was finding on Expedia, etc; we paid about $60 per flight, we flew from Hanoi->Danang, and Danang->HCMC. The early flight was sold out from Hanoi so we booked a later one, it was no big deal. We did an overnight trip with Buffalo Tours from Hanoi to an ethnic Thai village.
http://www.buffalotours.com/ I liked central Vietnam, but we also enjoyed HCMC. It is very different from the north. We did a day tour to the Cu Chi Tunnels and another day tour to the Mekong using Ann Tours. http://www.anntours.com/ I love the area around Krabi, but I've always visited in Jan/Feb. We did a half day rock climbing on Railay each time. Not sure about rock climbing in the other areas. We have photos and trip reports at our web site: http://kerstentraveler.com/ |
I always enjoy seeing varying perspectives about traveling. Since Bob mentioned to plan on being tired on your first day, I'll suggest a different possibility. You've done a lot of traveling, so you know the extent to which crossing many time zones affects you. The effect of a long trip to Bangkok will probably be no different for you.
I mention that because my wife and I traveled west for 32 hours (from home to hotel) to get to Bangkok. Yet we were ready to go the first day and had no trouble whatsoever. On the other hand, when we travel east on an overnight flight to Europe, we arrive in the morning and immediately go to a hotel room to grab a few hours sleep. |
20 days for three countries sounds pretty damn hectic to me. We spent 20 days in the south and north of Vietnam, and of course we just scratched the surface. My favourite cities were Hanoi and Hoi An, but I wouldn't have wanted to miss Hue or Ha Long Bay either, and didn't even get to Sapa.
I didn't dislike HCMC but in retrospect could have passed. But yes, it is the gateway to some fascinating places - the Mekong, the Cu Chi Tunnels and the Cao Dai cathedral in Tay Ninh, so it's worth the time for that alone. If you want to spend some time in Siem Reap and Bangkok you'll have to be selective in regard to Vietnam. I suggest forsaking part of the country, and if you like the country and its people (and who doesn't?) plan a return trip to see the bits you've missed. OK, it's a long way from Texas, but once you're there it's a pretty cheap destination. I know you'll have a good time whatever you do, though, so enjoy. |
Only one other person has mentioned Hoi An (central VN) - it is a beautiful city - actually much prettier than DaNang...I would highly recommend...also more time in Hanoi - less time or none at all in SVN would be my suggestions...and do slow it down...you can buy tickets in country - plus you might want to make some changes once you get there and it is very easy to purchase airline tickets - not like the states at all!
Have fun - its a great country! |
Last February my family (husband and two kids) spent about a month in South East Asia (Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and Bali) We actually had passport problems so we were waylayed in Singapore for a few days. Make sure you have six months remaining on your passports - that was the problem with our girls!
Anyway, the trip overall was fantastic! I am jealous of your upcoming adventure. Vietnam was clearly a highlight for us - perhaps because we spent more time there. But, we loved Hanoi, especially staying at the Metropole. I loved getting up early and walking to Hoan Kiem Lake to exercise with the thousand of other people. I know you said you don't like shopping but both my girls had silk dresses custom made in Hanoi (for little$$) and the experience itself was delightful. I finally gave in and had an ao dai (traditional vietnamese outfit) made for $28 in less than six hours in Hoi An. We did take the trip to Sapa but we drove with a driver and a van. It was an incredibly long drive - about 10 hours - but I will say we saw a lot of the countryside and had the opportunity to talk to our guide, a young single educated man. It was tough but worth it when we arrived in Sapa. We stayed at the Victorian Sapa and loved it. Our trek to the Hmong, Red Dao and Cat Cat villages were remarkable. Don't miss a trip to Sapa. It's also much much cooler up in the hills so a relief from the warm temperatures. We also loved Hoi An. Our lovely Hoi An Riverside HOtel was perfect and we enjoyed walking around the town. We love to visit local markets and the one in Hoi An was great - I have some of the best photos from that day. If you go make sure to have dinner at Cafe des Amis with Mr. Kim. You won't see a menu but just be given platter after platter of wonderful food. Very inexpensive, very casual and lot's of fun. Hue can be missed and I was glad we went to Saigon (we had a friend to meet) if only to experience the difference between north and south. We did do a tour in the Mekong, the Cao Dai Cathedral and Cu Chi tunnels. It's hard to cut anything out! In Cambodia, we only flew in and out of Siem Riep and spent two days exploring the temples. That was enough for us in the HEAT. Don't miss Ta Prom (the jungle temple) and Banteau Srei in addition to Angkor Thom. Make sure you get a private guide otherwise I can't imagine understanding what you are seeing and getting the history straight. I actually bought an Angkor guide book from a seller (they are everywhere!) outside the temple which I found helpful. My girls still remember a lot of what they saw and learned. Our time in Bangkok was short - only two days. We toured the wats and enjoyed a splurge at the Oriental. We flew out to Chaing Mai where we visited an elephant camp, floated on the Ping River and once again visited local markets. It was here where we woke up early and went out for morning alms. Do try to take part in this simple and beautifual Bhuddist custom. We purchased alms (bags of rice, curry, flowers, incense and candles) from a street vendor and waited at the foot of Doe Suthep for the novices to walk barefoot with their begging bowls. We learned the proper way to show respect and present our offering and then purchased a basket of birds from another street vendor to set free for "making merit". I only wish you could end up in Bali as we did. Aside from it really being a tropical paradise, the Hindu culture is quite fascinating. We have also traveled to India but the Balinese customs are different. The people are so generous and kind and are still experiencing hardship after the bombing in Kuta. We loved Ubud. We chose Bali for relaxation rather than the beaches in Thailand figuring we might never "get this way again." We were so right because in addition to the beaches, etc. we were able to experience a beautiful culture so different from any other we have seen. Good luck & have fun. Luckily, I am planning a trip to Tuscany for June or I would be really depressed reliving our South East Asain adventure! Good luck |
karinw---do you need a B&B in florence...we were just there and stayed at the DeiMori B&B right in the center of town....they have a web site...they also have a rental apartment in the country...
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Just to reinforce karinw's plug for Hoi An, I found it a great place to just mooch around and soak up the atmosphere. Virtually the only touting when I was there was from a few little kids cadging foreign coins, so distractions were minimal. The busy riverfront with its markets, fishing boats and eating houses, the picturesque Old Town's Chinese, Japanese and other old trading-port influences, the tailors, art galleries and the lantern shops at night - the relaxed pace of life after the big cities was a real pleasure. BTW, for those who've seen Phil Noyce's 2002 production of "The Quiet American", the final scene, ostensibly on the Saigon riverfront, was filmed in Hoi An - an "old" footbridge installed for the film is still there. The film is worth seeing as a perspective on the beginnings of the "American war" and modern Vietnam.
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rhkkmk- thanks for the tip on the b&b in Florence. I had booked at the Casci but am always open to a new idea. I checked out their website - looks nice and is cheaper than Casci. I sent off a request for availability. Any other tips? Sorry to everyone for discussing Florence on the Vietnam posting!!!!
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karin--if you want to send me an e-mail directly i will send you a list of restaurants in florence....or you could read my very long report on fodors
go to the europe page...in the subject box type in "Venice and Florence Soujourn" this will lead you to my boring report... my e is: [email protected] put "florence info" in the subject box or i will delete you |
Wow, thank you all for the advice. We still have not decided on what to do during the middle part of the trip - either Hoi An or HCMC. It sounds as if most of you on this board prefer Hoi An. A few of you have mentioned the rains in Krabi during this time period. If we decide to skip Krabi, where else should be go for similar activities? Great beaches, beautiful scenery, etc. I have read conflicting reports on Nha Trang. On the one hand, I hate to miss Krabi (the pictures just look amazing) but on the other, I do not want to go there if we will be soaked in rain the entire time. (Does this also affect water visibility?) I know that I will eventually make it back to Thailand, so skipping Krabi would not be the end of the world. Any other beach suggestions? |
Hello,
I was in Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand this past March. Also a 30 something female traveling with a girlfriend. Hanoi was my favourite city and the temples around Siem Reap were the most spectacular sight. In Hanoi, we used Handspan for tours to both Halong Bay and Sapa. Both tours were fabulous and Handspan is much, much better than the Sinh cafe (quality of tour guides, food, transport, etc.). I would say definitely use them for Halong Bay and spend a night on the Dragon's Pearl (their boat); it's wonderful waking up on the water, the boat is very new and very nice and the meals are great. Handspan's tour to Sapa was also very good, however, you could do Sapa on your. There are a lot of hotels in Sapa - ranging from $10 to $200. If you take the train on your own, make sure you are in the 'tourist' car - the beds are soft sleepers vs. hard sleepers in the regular cars. The train goes to Lao Cai then it's about a 2 hour drive to Sapa. If you want a guide in Sapa, you can join one of Handspan's tours (they have an office in Sapa) or arrange for a guide through another agency. Doing the full tour with Handspan is convenient (don't need to think about any transport) and good value. Definitely spend at least 2 days in Hanoi itself - I loved it there. We had to skip Hue and Hoi An as we didn't have enough time, but talking to others, wish we could have squeezed Hoi An in. I did enjoy the Mekong Delta tour and HCMC was interesting but I think it's better to spend more time in fewer places than try to see everything. The temples around Siem Reap are worth the entire trip; I agree 3 days is enough unless you have read a lot and are very interested in the temples. Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Bayon, Bantaey Srei and Ta Prohm are the "must sees." If you go to Bangkok, it takes a couple of days to get a feel for the city. I would recommend splurging and staying at a nice hotel on the river (I used my Starwood points and stayed at the Royal Orchid Sheraton); I think if I'd stayed in a cheaper area I wouldn't have liked Bangkok as much. You'll have a fabulous time whatever you end up deciding, but you will find that 20 days isn't long enough to truly enjoy all of the places on your list. |
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