Feedback--First Time in Japan, 3 weeks
 

We are a mid-60’s couple who are traveling to Japan this October for just over three weeks, our first trip anywhere in Asia. We will get two- or three-week JR passes, and prefer not to rent a car. We fly in and out of Tokyo.

Some background: We’ve always traveled independently, and prefer some flexibility. Often book parts of a trip in advance, but like to leave periods of time unscheduled, to be able to extend time in a place we love, or skip ahead to somewhere else. Not sure this will be possible in Japan in October…will it? We are open to hiring guides as needed and to doing day tours if necessary to get to certain places.

We are interested in traditional folk arts and crafts (seeing the artisans at work), music and performing arts. We love festivals, but don’t do well with huge crowds, so often have the best time at neighborhood/smaller festivals we stumble upon. (We realize crowds will be unavoidable in October in Japan). We love to see the unique and varied scenic beauty of a country, but are limited by some orthopedic issues to 2 – 3 mile round trip easy “hikes”. In cities we like to stay where there is easy access to public transportation, as well as places to eat/shop nearby. Want to see the "important" sites, but are also don't want to burn out on shrine after shrine, temple after temple, so want to mix in other activities.

We are interested in both Kyoto’s Jidai Matsuri festival and the Kurama Fire Festival on October 22, but are concerned that crowds will be overwhelming. Same concerns for the Niihama Drum Festival on Shikoku island on October 16-18. Thoughts? Also realize we’re probably too early for the autumn leaves, but if the order of our trip might allow us to see some color changes, that’d be a bonus!

Here’s a tentative list of basic places we are interested in, but I’m not sure the best order to see them or how long to allow for each place, especially IF we’re trying to include any of the festivals. Very open to consider adding or eliminating places based on your wise recommendations.

Tokyo—5 to 7 days (including day trips to Nikko, Kamakura)
Hakone, 5 Lakes (?), Takayama, Kanazawa, Shirakawa-go
Kyoto (5 + days), Nara
Himeji Castle
Osaka (maybe as a day trip, maybe just one night), Iya Valley?
Hiroshima/Miyama
Mt. Koya (staying 1 night)
Can we get in Shikoku Island?
Back to Tokyo

Finally, I want to thank all of you Japan experts who take the time to share your experience and to encourage independent travel to Japan. However, I may find the logistics overwhelming, so if anyone can recommend a travel company that assists with the logistics of independent/custom travel, I might need that help!

Thanks so much.

Whatever you choose, you will have a wonderful trip!

Have you already purchased flights into and out of Tokyo? If not, consider flying into Tokyo and out of Kansai (or other airport) so you don’t have to backtrack.

In October, I wouldn’t think you need to book particuarly far in advance, at least for most places. You might, however, be able to book more desirable places by booking ahead.

There is no need for you to hire a guide, or – for the destinations you list – join a day tour unless that is your preference. You might, however, consider taking advantage of an occasional local “goodwill guide” – The Japanese National Tourism Organization coordinates free volunteer guides who are knowledgeable and happy to guide you in return for practicing their English – which can be excellent!
www.jnto.go.jp/eng/arrange/trav…
You pay any entrance fees and his/her meal if your time with the guide includes one.

I didn’t have the good fortune to see the Jidai Matsuri, but I did see a different one (the Aoi Matsuri) in the same location. For the Aoi, there were bleachers in some parts and one could arrange to reserve seats – you might want to check with Kyoto’s tourism office or JNTO to see if they have more information.

Itineraries ALWAYS depend (of course) on personal interests, but here are some thoughts that I think are consistent with your stated preferences (which are not unlike my own):
• I spent less than 4 days in Tokyo, and that time include Kamakura; more than enough for me!
• I visited Nikko separately – I could not have seen everything I wanted to see in Nikko on a single day trip from Tokyo, and I am not averse to single-night stays. That said, many people DO visit Nikko as a day trip from Tokyo and find it satisfactory.
• IMO, Takayama, Kanazawa, and Shirakawa-go warrant a minimum of 5 days (3 in Kanazawa and 2 in Takayama).
• For me, 6 days in Kyoto and Nara were barely sufficient. Your call!
• Himeji-jo is well worth seeing, and can be seen from Kyoto or en route to Hiroshima / Miyajima – there are luggage lockers in the train stations and you can (and should!) consider taking advantage of Japan’s wonderful luggage-forwarding options when it suits you to do so. (Luggage-forwarding is called takuhaibin; here's the info:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html)
• IMO, Hiroshima and Miyajima were highlights of a highlight-filled trip. I visited Hiroshima during a day and then moved on to Miyajima in time to check in to a ryokan. I was grateful to have a quiet and superbly relaxing evening after the emotional experience of Hiroshima. I then spent a day exploring Miyajima’s delights before heading on; an extra night there would not be unreasonable. Another advantage of this plan was that I was able to see the glorious Itsukushima torii at both low and high tides. :-)
• A night on Koya-san was, for me, another true highlight of a highlight filled trip. FWIW, my understanding (which could be wrong!), is that the choice of temple makes a huge difference. I was very pleased with Shojoshin-in, which still gets great reviews:
https://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/...n=Shojoshin-in
I strongly recommend visiting Okuno-in while on Koya-san, particularly around dusk or dawn:
• http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4901.html

One last thing: I trust you are familiar with japan-guide.com and JNTO? They are, IMO, the best sources of information about traveling in Japan. Note, however, that IME, they underestimate the time it takes to visit places, even for sure-footed young ones! ;-)

Hope that helps!

One thing I find helpful in planning an independent trip is to look at some group tours to see how long it takes to get between places, in what order they visit places, how much time they think each town needs, etc. One quite thoughtful tour group that I always check out is Overseas Adventure Travel, but of course there are many. Planning is a lot of work, but you can save so much money by traveling independently. My husband and I are also in our mid-60s and we find it easier to stay at least two nights in most places so you don't end up arriving late and leaving early and not seeing much. It also spaces out train travel. Trains in Japan are great, but for us, they meant we didnt have the fun of ambling along in the car and stopping places, so we enjoyed spacing out our transportation!

"In October, I wouldn’t think you need to book particuarly far in advance, at least for most places."

I have just been booking for Japan for the second half of October into November. I have had some difficulty, especially for Honshu, especially for weekends and most especially for Kyoto. I would advise making bookings - preferably ones that you can cancel - as soon as your itinerary is set. However, some places, notably the Toyoko Inn chain, only take bookings three months out.

Other points. On my first visit to Japan (click on my name for my East Asian TR) Tokyo was my least favorite place. I did visit Nikko as a day trip, and thought that was fine. I will be spending two nights in Kamakura on my upcoming trip, and there seems to be plenty to see.

I thoroughly enjoyed Kanazawa, Shirakawa-go and Takayama (don't miss the Art Nouveau museum). I would add Matsumoto. In Koyo-san it makes a very big difference which temple you select. Choose carefully!

With only three weeks I doubt you have time for Shikoku. Nor, I suspect, the Hiroshima area. You might substitute Matsumoto's castle for Himeji.

I would not take travel time estimates from tour groups, who are probably traveling by coach. Use HyperDia for train times, or start with Rome2Rio and then follow the links for details. One benefit of traveling independently is that you can spend as much or as little time as you choose at sights.

Congrats on your first trip to Japan!

You have quite a list of places you think you will visit from Tokyo - some of them are really too far for a day trip, like Kanazawa. We had three nights in Kanazawa and would have liked more time there. Also, I'd recommend spending two nights in Hakone rather than taking a day trip from Tokyo. I will admit that like Thursdays, Tokyo was my least favorite place in Japan.

Really, no need for guides or tours on this trip, with the exception of utilizing a goodwill guide if you wish.

We were in Japan in November - perfect timing for the koyo (fall colors) - so take a look at some of out photos for inspiration.
http://www.marlandc.com/Japan-2013

Thank you all for your thoughtful feedback and suggestions.
Our flights are booked in and out of Tokyo because we are using awards and Tokyo is our only choice.
We could fly back to Tokyo if it enables us to follow a better route than a "loop".

I haven't yet looked at HyperDia because I was trying to get a better idea of our route first. I have looked at Japan-Guide, but haven't used JNTO--thanks for that info.

Sorry if I was unclear--we do intend for the Kanazawa/Takayama/Shira. part as a separate section, not as day trips from Tokyo. May now add Matsumoto--thanks for that recommendation.

I really want to see Hiroshima/Miyama, so maybe leaving out Shikoku will give us that time?

I'll try to come up with a more firm itinerary based on your suggestions, but still not sure if I should try to build it around any of the festivals I mentioned (still debating if the thrill of the festival might be offset by the frustration of crowds...)---thanks again.

I would leave out Shikoku on this trip. Based on the feedback above, here is what the struction of your trip could look like, making a loop from Tokyo and back. Add or subtract nights from each location as you wish:

Tokyo (day trips to Nikko, Kamakura) 4 nights
Matsumoto (bus to Takayama next day) 1 night
Takayama 2 nights
Shirakawa-go - enroute to Kanazawa
Kanazawa 3 nights
Kyoto (Nara day trip or overnight) 5 nights
Mt. Koya 1 night
Osaka 1 night
Himeji Castle - enroute to Hiroshima
Hiroshima/Miyama  2 nights
Hakone 2 nights
Fly out of Tokyo

If you decide to leave out Matsumoto, you can take the fast Shinkansen to to Kanazawa, adding that night to another location, and do the next three destinations in a different order, for example:

Tokyo (day trips to Nikko, Kamakura) 4 nights
Kanazawa 3 nights
Shirakawa-go - enroute to Takayama
Takayama 2 nights
Kyoto (Nara day trip or overnight) 6 nights
Mt. Koya 1 night
Osaka 1 night
Himeji Castle - enroute to Hakone
Hiroshima/Miyama  2 nights
Hakone 2 nights
Fly out of Tokyo

These don't take festivals into account, just a logical order to prevent back tracking. I went to all of these places over two different two-week trips, details of which can be found on my trip reports by clicking on my name. Happy planning!

*on post above "struction" should have been "structure".

One other thought... I don't know anyone who loves Osaka (but I'm sure they exist). Another idea would be to eliminate Osaka and drop in an overnight (or 2) in Nara at that point in the itinerary, which will help break up the trip from Koyasan to Hiroshima.

Thanks for your specific suggestions on the order, Russ. (I've given up trying to plan around specific festivals!) Though I'd love to see the castle in Matsumoto and the woodblock print museum there, perhaps the time is better spent following the second itinerary. I'll consider that, as well as skipping Osaka this time. Might there be autumn color at Hakone? Even if not, I like the idea of it being at the end of the trip.

If we don't rent a car, is it best to get to Shirakawa-go by bus or a day tour?

Thanks--I'll check out your trip reports.

I would think the best way to visit Shirakawa-go would be by bus en route from Kanazawa to Takayama or vice versa -- you have to go through it no matter what.

I like itinerary 2 better myself, along with substituting Nara for Osaka. I agree with kja above about seeing S-go by bus en route from Kanazawa to Takayama. No need to rent a car for any part of this itinerary.

You may be able to see some fall colors in Nikko and Koyasan in late October. Here is a link showing the average time periods for the leaves turning in each region:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2014_when.html

Have fun!

Hi everyone,

Though this is not my first trip it might as well be, the last one was 50 years ago.
This is a great thread, to the OP I have just booked a room in Gero Onsan in order to be able to partake in the Autumn festival October 9,10th which sounds amazing. This is what Japan Guide suggested http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5909.html Considering the cost of hotel rooms in Takayama that weekend this seemed a good solution.

>> ... like to leave periods of time unscheduled ... Not sure this will be possible in Japan in October…will it?

Yes, that is possible. There are travel agents at many JR stations where you can book hotels at the last minute or in advance. IIRC, you pay them and they give you a voucher to redeem at the lodging. The language barrier is easy enough to overcome (e.g. by pointing at pictures, prices, a calendar).

Nywoman, I recommend that you get reserved seats for the limited express train trips between Gero and Takayama. Otherwise, expect all of the seats to be taken by people from Nagoya.

I meant to add "well in advance" to that.

I recommend that you get reserved seats well in advance ...

Hey, nywoman, it's good to see you back here on the Asia forum!

For all three of our trips (two of which have been in autumn) we've ended up juggling the itinerary around for one or two nights, usually in / near Kyoto / Osaka. It was easy because we booked those locations using booking.com with the pay at the hotel cancel up to three days beforehand terms and conditions. We knew by that 3 day ahead time frame that we wanted to cancel a night or two and were readily able to find a place somewhere else instead.

I do not like to slim down to another typical itinerary... Anyway, here are some info about the festivals you had mentioned.

Kyoto Jidai Matsuri is one of the big 3 festivals in Kyoto, but the crowds are the minimum among the three. In order to avoid the crowds, it would be better to see the parade at the wide road, such as Miike Dori.

http://hth-rockcor.com/1047.html

Kurama Hi-matsuri is regarded as the most crowded festival in Kyoto. But the following site says the wonder overcomes that, and also advises to wear inflammable clothes, take a food and clothes for a night temperature, and should remember that there are no toilets on site.

http://aloneagainorkyoto.com/2012/20...-himatsuri-02/

Niihama Taiko Matsuri is one of the big 3 festivals in Shikoku. The last day is the highlight. The best way to see the parade is to buy viewing seats at the Ikkunomori Museum. The price is about $30 per seat and they accept the internet purchase, only in Japanese though.

http://ikkunomori.com/museum/

For both our first trips, we flew into and out of Tokyo, as that was the most readily available route using airmiles. We decided to split our nights in Tokyo between beginning and end of the trip and that worked really well for us.

On our first trip we did 2 nights in Tokyo to start and had another 4 there at the end. I'd probably drop that to 3 at the end if I were advising a first time visitor now, as I, like many, discovered that while Tokyo has plenty to see and do, I liked Kyoto even better and there was even more there that I wanted to see and do.

On that first trip we then went to Takayama for 2 nights (we didn't do Kanazawa or Shirakawa-go on that trip, but we wanted to include Takayama as the autumn festival fell during our visit and we loved being able to experience it.

Next, a night in Nara and then 5 nights in Kyoto.

From there we did a single night on Koya-san (at Shojosin-in which I recommend highly).

Next one night in Osaka and then we went to Hiroshima, spent the morning there before heading across to Miyajima (be careful, Miyama is a different place entirely) where we spent the night.

From there we headed back to Tokyo.

We didn't love Osaka, though we gave it another chance on our second trip, trying to see what it is other people had told me they adored about it, but we didn't work it out on the second trip either!

The single nighters sound tiring but the travel was a wonderful experience in itself, not at all stressful or tiring and we didn't feel rushed even on those one nighters. We would have loved to spend a second night in that Nara ryokan though, as we adored our experience there.

This trip was Sept/ Oct 2012.

In 2013 we went back again, here's the itinerary we followed:

Tokyo arrive noon, single night obly
Kyoto 5 nts
Osaka 1 nt
Kobe 2
-- note, the above is what we booked but we switched on the ground and cancelled Kobe to spend more time in Kyoto. We did still visit Osaka but shifted it to after extended Kyoto time.

Kumamoto 2 nts
Karakawa Onsen 2 nts
Yufuin Onsen 2 nts
Hakata/ Fukuoka 2 nts

Tokyo 3 nts

We've just returned from trip 3 which included another week in Kyoto, plus we also visited Hakone, Hikone, Kanzawa, the Noto Pensinsula, Karuizawa, Nikko and Tokyo.

Hi Kavey - what was the Nara ryokan?

Hi Kavey- Did you do Nikko as a daytrip from Tokyo? By Tobu Rail or by Jr train? Did you find it worthwhile despite the scaffolding? I am planning a one day visit in Nov?

Shelly, we did Nikko as a day trip and found it well worth while, even with the scaffolding, as that impacted only a small percentage of everything there is to see in the temple area. Certainly one can (and many do) spend several nights there, but I would not let doing it as a day trip stop you. The JR and Tobu stations are 100m apart from each other, so it doesn't matter which you take, unless you have a JR pass, which we did, so we took JR.

While in Nikko, I was also very glad to have visited Kegon-no-Taki and and a bit of Lake Chuzenji, walked a bit of the Kanmangafuchi Abyss, and admired the extraordinary collection of screens and sliding doors at the Tōshō-gū Museum of Art. To see those things in the same day trip that included a visit to the main temples and shrines of Nikko would, I think, be well nigh impossible. That's why I spent a night there. As with so many things, the decision really depends on one's priorities.

Wow, lots to process--thanks to all you experienced advisors. I do want to get in one of the festivals, but it is challenging with the timing and route. I'll look at scheduling options again. I do think we will try to allow some flexibility in our itinerary, and do try to use cancel-able (and sometimes overlapping) reservations to allow for that. I appreciate all the specifics on smaller towns and less-visited sites, but since this is our first trip and time is limited, I feel torn about leaving out "classic" sites. All food for thought...Again, thanks.

If it helps, you can't see it all -- even all the "classics" -- in 3 weeks: Not possible! You WILL be leaving out some things. Although decisions about what to skip are the ones I dislike MOST when planning a trip, once I face the fact they are inevitable, I find some freedom in the realization. I hope that proves true for you, too. :-)

Hi Kathy,
Have been doing Australia and Eastern Europe for the last few years. Very happy to be back here and so nice to see that you are still posting. Are you coming to the GTG in September?

Thank you mrwunrflr for your great advice. I have not bought my Railpass yet can I still book the train?

No, you will do that when you get to Japan. Get the reserved seat after your JR Pass is issued and you won't pay the fee.

hyperdia.com is telling me that a reserved seat for Gero to Takayama on Oct 29 is ¥620. I was expecting more like ¥320.

That is per trip - one-way, so ¥2480 if you go up and back on both days.

The trip is about 45 minutes on the limited express or 90 minutes on a regular train with no reserved seats.

If you absolutely need seats then I think there is a Japanese language site where they can be booked. They can also be booked by phone, but in Japanese. It might be possible to use the website www.eki-net.com with a webpage translator. Maybe a Japanese travel agent in the USA can book it for you.

JR East has an English webpage but Gero and Takayama are in JR Central.

Thursday, it was Kankaso. Was a wonderful location and a wonderful experience.

I recommend the en-suite garden room which I think is the top room in the ryokan. Japanese Guest Houses booked for me.

Here's my post: http://www.kaveyeats.com/2013/01/kai...o-in-nara.html

Note that the first bathroom shown is one of the public ones, can't recall if it's the mens or womens one. As we were the only guests we were invited to use it together. The second bathroom photo (at the very end) is the ensuite.

Thanks kavey - it looks lovely!

I'll try Japanese Guest Houses, but I discovered last time that solo foreign travelers are not very welcome at ryokans - even with KimJapan looking for me.

Aah, that would be a shame. You can always ask them if they would accept solo travellers if you paid a supplement? I don't think the concept exists in Japan yet they may well be willing if it were offered.

I haven't stayed there but I just checked on japanese guest houses website and they list Kankaso and say they accept single guests - also Kankaso has a website but only in Japanese but it indicates the price for a single guest....of two types of rooms one says further discussion needed for single guest, the other lists a single guest price:
http://www.kankaso.jp/room/index.html