Early planning for yet another "second trip" to Japan
Jul 19th, 2015, 02:32 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Early planning for yet another "second trip" to Japan
DH and I are very lucky to have accumulated enough time and frequent flyer miles for two big trips this year. Australia and New Zealand are coming up soon (mid-October to late November, so that itinerary is 95% complete). When we got back from Borneo and Japan last June (4 days Tokyo, one night Hakone) we vowed to return to Japan soon. We had to use some FF miles on ANA before they expired, so we just booked tickets for 17 days on the ground in May 2016 (just after Golden Week). Although I feel I have time to plan details when we return from NZ, I realized there might be some special places we want to book asap (such as Mume Hotel in Kyoto). In order to do that, I first have to sketch an itinerary.
From reading recent TRs and planning posts as well as Japan Guide, I’ve come up with my top priorities. We travel slowly (don’t hike) and we will be flying into Tokyo and out of Osaka. I plan to include (at least) 2 days in Tokyo in the beginning, which would then give us about 2 weeks to cover the following highest priorities (at this stage, anyway, I know that your input sometimes changes those for me) - - please help with the order that you think works best and # nights in each place:
1)Snow Monkey park in Yamanouchi;
2)Lake Kawaguchiko (for the pink moss festival and Mt Fuji views - - we could not see Mt. Fuji from Hakone last June);
3)Takayama (especially for Kenrokuen gardens),
4)Shirakawa-go (probably not overnight so is this a full day side trip or “on the way” between two places);
5)Kanazawa;
6)Kyoto
As for other places to possibly fit in (obviously not all): Matsumoto, Koyasan, Nikko, Miyajima and Hiroshima. I’ve read so many of your wonderful reports, it is difficult to eliminate things but if you feel I am missing something major (been to Nara and Kamakura about 40 years ago) well, please advise. Also, I’ve seen very few reports that include Lake Kawaguchiko but since we will be missing sakura, I thought perhaps the pink moss might be nice.
Immediate bottom line: I am thinking about booking Mume for the last 4 nights of the trip since it is still available. Does it make sense to end in Kyoto (final night then to Osaka airport?). Would it be too much include Hiroshima and Miyajima and would it be crazy to back track to go to Kyoto at the end of the trip just to ensure reservations at Mume?
From reading recent TRs and planning posts as well as Japan Guide, I’ve come up with my top priorities. We travel slowly (don’t hike) and we will be flying into Tokyo and out of Osaka. I plan to include (at least) 2 days in Tokyo in the beginning, which would then give us about 2 weeks to cover the following highest priorities (at this stage, anyway, I know that your input sometimes changes those for me) - - please help with the order that you think works best and # nights in each place:
1)Snow Monkey park in Yamanouchi;
2)Lake Kawaguchiko (for the pink moss festival and Mt Fuji views - - we could not see Mt. Fuji from Hakone last June);
3)Takayama (especially for Kenrokuen gardens),
4)Shirakawa-go (probably not overnight so is this a full day side trip or “on the way” between two places);
5)Kanazawa;
6)Kyoto
As for other places to possibly fit in (obviously not all): Matsumoto, Koyasan, Nikko, Miyajima and Hiroshima. I’ve read so many of your wonderful reports, it is difficult to eliminate things but if you feel I am missing something major (been to Nara and Kamakura about 40 years ago) well, please advise. Also, I’ve seen very few reports that include Lake Kawaguchiko but since we will be missing sakura, I thought perhaps the pink moss might be nice.
Immediate bottom line: I am thinking about booking Mume for the last 4 nights of the trip since it is still available. Does it make sense to end in Kyoto (final night then to Osaka airport?). Would it be too much include Hiroshima and Miyajima and would it be crazy to back track to go to Kyoto at the end of the trip just to ensure reservations at Mume?
Jul 19th, 2015, 02:56 PM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TP - I don't have any advice other than to visit the Kenrokuen Gardens in Kanazawa where they are actually located, rather than in Takayama. Hopefully this won't require you to change your plans 
.
.
Jul 19th, 2015, 03:30 PM
#4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you visit Hida no Sato in Takayama, a stop in Shirakawa-go might seem superfluous. JMO.
For me, an overnight in Koyasan was a highlight of a highlight-filled trip. YMMV. If you decide to go there, I believe the choice of temple can make a big difference. I was very pleased with Shojoshinin. That would be something to reserve in advance.
I also thought my time in Hiroshima and Miyajima extraordinarily special.
The Kamogawa Odori is performed in Kyoto in May -- if you can arrange your time to be there for that, it would (I think) be well worth considering. The Aoi Matsuri is also in May, but probably too early given your timing.
I visited Japan in May and thought the variety of blooming things absolutely lovely.
Enjoy!
For me, an overnight in Koyasan was a highlight of a highlight-filled trip. YMMV. If you decide to go there, I believe the choice of temple can make a big difference. I was very pleased with Shojoshinin. That would be something to reserve in advance.
I also thought my time in Hiroshima and Miyajima extraordinarily special.
The Kamogawa Odori is performed in Kyoto in May -- if you can arrange your time to be there for that, it would (I think) be well worth considering. The Aoi Matsuri is also in May, but probably too early given your timing.
I visited Japan in May and thought the variety of blooming things absolutely lovely.
Enjoy!
Jul 19th, 2015, 04:44 PM
#5
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing to add as we'll be in Japan around the same time so our paths may cross since I also flying ANA out of the DC area in/out of Tokyo though. I have 18 days and am in the process of filling my itinerary. I'm fortunate to have a friend in Japan who's helping me finalize my trip. Also like you I'm a slow traveler, but love hiking so planning on some hiking while I'm there.
Happy planning.
jdc
Happy planning.
jdc
Jul 19th, 2015, 05:24 PM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kja, thanks for those suggestions, being able to eliminate things is helpful and I found out that Kamogawa Odori will likely coincide with out time in Kyoto.
jdc, would love to hear what arrangements you are making, especially if you our stops overlap.
jdc, would love to hear what arrangements you are making, especially if you our stops overlap.
Jul 19th, 2015, 07:34 PM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Kamogawa Odori will likely coincide with out time in Kyoto"
Bonus! Do consider going -- I thought it breathtaking and oh, so, memorable!
"it is difficult to eliminate things but if you feel I am missing something major (been to Nara and Kamakura about 40 years ago) well, please advise."
Not to add to your list.., but when in Nara, did you make it to Ikaruga? Hōryū-ji and Chūgū-ji are among the temples I most enjoyed while in Japan.
Bonus! Do consider going -- I thought it breathtaking and oh, so, memorable!
"it is difficult to eliminate things but if you feel I am missing something major (been to Nara and Kamakura about 40 years ago) well, please advise."
Not to add to your list.., but when in Nara, did you make it to Ikaruga? Hōryū-ji and Chūgū-ji are among the temples I most enjoyed while in Japan.
Jul 19th, 2015, 09:37 PM
#9
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ mrwunrfl -- ;-)
No bad choice here, IMO -- just a question of how to allocate one's time. I liked being able to go into and around the buildings of the Hida no Sato on my own, which one can do (at least during opening hours!) because it is a museum that also includes buildings and exhibits from other parts of the Hida region. I'm sure there are lots of advantages to visiting Shirakawa-go instead.
FWIW, the wonderful Takayama Museum of Art -- with its extraordinary collection of Art Nouveau and Art Deco glass and interior decorations -- is just steps from Hida no Sato.
No bad choice here, IMO -- just a question of how to allocate one's time. I liked being able to go into and around the buildings of the Hida no Sato on my own, which one can do (at least during opening hours!) because it is a museum that also includes buildings and exhibits from other parts of the Hida region. I'm sure there are lots of advantages to visiting Shirakawa-go instead.
FWIW, the wonderful Takayama Museum of Art -- with its extraordinary collection of Art Nouveau and Art Deco glass and interior decorations -- is just steps from Hida no Sato.
Jul 20th, 2015, 04:10 AM
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It helps to get your opinions about prioritizing these stops. But I'm having a tough time figuring out the order of this itinerary (or similar). From browsing hypedia and Japan guide, it looks like some of the stops might involve 5+ hours of travel time. So I'm not sure what routing would minimize this, where to include stopovers or which to eliminate or add nights so we don't have to move too much or where it might be OK to backtrack.
When we went to Hakone last year, we loved being there but were pretty tired out by the trip and the two trains, rope way, cable car, etc. we ended up not doing much sightseeing because we only had one night. Not an entirely bad thing because we loved the ryokan but I want to be realistic about what it takes to get from place to place.
When we went to Hakone last year, we loved being there but were pretty tired out by the trip and the two trains, rope way, cable car, etc. we ended up not doing much sightseeing because we only had one night. Not an entirely bad thing because we loved the ryokan but I want to be realistic about what it takes to get from place to place.
Jul 20th, 2015, 04:56 AM
#12
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FromDC, Initially this is the itinerary that my Japanese friend had planned out for me based on my interest, Hokkaido/5 days; Tokohu/3 days/Kamakura/1 day; Izu/2 days; Kyoto/3 days; Hiroshima/Miyajima/2 days and Tokyo/2 days. But like you, I felt the stops involved too much time in-transit so I'm now tweaking a bit. The plan was to fly directly to Hokkaido on my arrival on May 12, but now I'm rethinking going to Hokkaido towards the end of May to optimize better chance to have better weather for hiking. I have a total of 19 days excluding arrival and departure days. I prefer to base myself in one location and do day trips if possible rather than moving from hotel to hotel losing time in-transit.
I will definitely let you know my final itinerary and maybe if we're an area at the same time, we can GTG.
jdc
I will definitely let you know my final itinerary and maybe if we're an area at the same time, we can GTG.
jdc
Jul 20th, 2015, 10:35 AM
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With a few hours on Hyperdia, I sketched out something rough with # nights and estimated travel time - hope to get some feedback:
2 nights (Tokyo to ) Lake Kawaguchi, 2+ hours
1 night, Matsumoto, approx 4 hours
2 nights Shibu Onsen, 2 hours
3 nights Takayama (including trip to S-go?) 4.5 hours
3 nights Kanazawa, 2.5 hours
1 night Koyasan, 4.5 hours + cable car
4 nights Kyoto, 3 hours + cable car down
last night Osaka airport
I actually have one more night available than what is listed there. We really love beautiful scenery, markets, gardens, walks/wandering around neighborhoods, historical places, some interest in temples and castles (not a burning passion). So an additional question: is this "varied" enough - - is 10 nights total in Takayama, Kanazawa and Kyoto too much in total for our interests? Perhaps eliminate Takayama, for example and add something by the sea somewhere (fly or train - I don't think we want to do any driving).
jdc - - although we don't have much overlap now, who knows what these itineraries will look like before May. A GTG would be great.
2 nights (Tokyo to ) Lake Kawaguchi, 2+ hours
1 night, Matsumoto, approx 4 hours
2 nights Shibu Onsen, 2 hours
3 nights Takayama (including trip to S-go?) 4.5 hours
3 nights Kanazawa, 2.5 hours
1 night Koyasan, 4.5 hours + cable car
4 nights Kyoto, 3 hours + cable car down
last night Osaka airport
I actually have one more night available than what is listed there. We really love beautiful scenery, markets, gardens, walks/wandering around neighborhoods, historical places, some interest in temples and castles (not a burning passion). So an additional question: is this "varied" enough - - is 10 nights total in Takayama, Kanazawa and Kyoto too much in total for our interests? Perhaps eliminate Takayama, for example and add something by the sea somewhere (fly or train - I don't think we want to do any driving).
jdc - - although we don't have much overlap now, who knows what these itineraries will look like before May. A GTG would be great.
Jul 20th, 2015, 05:31 PM
#15
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Takayama (including trip to S-go?)"
If you visit Shirakawa-go, you might want to do it en route from Takayama to Kanazawa -- no need to back track! Part of the reason I skipped it was because at the time I went, there seemed to be no where to leave one's suitcase, but from what I've read, that was either a mistaken understanding on my part or a situation that has since changed.
"Koyasan, 4.5 hours + cable car"
Yes, the trip to Koya-san sounds monstrous -- but I found it stunning: the scenery made every bit of time and change of transportation worth while to me! But do consider taking advantage of Japan's excellent luggage-forwarding option so you only need to take an overnight bag with you. Luggage-forwarding is called takuhaibin; here's the info:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html
"Is this "varied" enough - - is 10 nights total in Takayama, Kanazawa and Kyoto too much in total for our interests?"
Hard to say, but I can say that I feared that I would get "templed out" and never did -- I found sufficient variety in the temples and shrines and gardens, etc., to wish I could have seen even more -- and I probably visited a LOT more than you will, given differences in our itineraries. And if you do find yourself wanting more variety, well, you could day-trip from Kyoto to Osaka, visit Himeji-jo from Kyoto (worth considering even if not for reasons of variety), etc.
"2 nights Takayama, 3 nights Kanazawa or eliminate Koyasan."
For my purposes, that would have been an ideal combo -- 2 nights Takayama, 3 nights Kanazawa, and include 1 night in Koya-san. Your purposes could, of course, differ from mine.
Hope that helps!
If you visit Shirakawa-go, you might want to do it en route from Takayama to Kanazawa -- no need to back track! Part of the reason I skipped it was because at the time I went, there seemed to be no where to leave one's suitcase, but from what I've read, that was either a mistaken understanding on my part or a situation that has since changed.
"Koyasan, 4.5 hours + cable car"
Yes, the trip to Koya-san sounds monstrous -- but I found it stunning: the scenery made every bit of time and change of transportation worth while to me! But do consider taking advantage of Japan's excellent luggage-forwarding option so you only need to take an overnight bag with you. Luggage-forwarding is called takuhaibin; here's the info:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html
"Is this "varied" enough - - is 10 nights total in Takayama, Kanazawa and Kyoto too much in total for our interests?"
Hard to say, but I can say that I feared that I would get "templed out" and never did -- I found sufficient variety in the temples and shrines and gardens, etc., to wish I could have seen even more -- and I probably visited a LOT more than you will, given differences in our itineraries. And if you do find yourself wanting more variety, well, you could day-trip from Kyoto to Osaka, visit Himeji-jo from Kyoto (worth considering even if not for reasons of variety), etc.
"2 nights Takayama, 3 nights Kanazawa or eliminate Koyasan."
For my purposes, that would have been an ideal combo -- 2 nights Takayama, 3 nights Kanazawa, and include 1 night in Koya-san. Your purposes could, of course, differ from mine.
Hope that helps!
Jul 20th, 2015, 08:11 PM
#16
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi From DC,
The amount of time you have allocated closely aligns with the number of nights we spent in the same places over our two trips. For what it's worth, we found 1 night in Shibu Onsen to be sufficient to see the snow monkeys and enjoy the town. Staying 2 nights in Takayama made for a very busy full day for us, but if you skip Hida no Sato it will make for a more reasonable pace, and then you can hit S-go on the way to Kanazawa, where 3 nights was perfect for us.
I would strongly urge you to go to Koyasan. It was the highlight of probably both trips, and we didn't find the travel time to be that bad.
If you haven't read them already, you can find more details on my two trip reports. Have fun planning!
The amount of time you have allocated closely aligns with the number of nights we spent in the same places over our two trips. For what it's worth, we found 1 night in Shibu Onsen to be sufficient to see the snow monkeys and enjoy the town. Staying 2 nights in Takayama made for a very busy full day for us, but if you skip Hida no Sato it will make for a more reasonable pace, and then you can hit S-go on the way to Kanazawa, where 3 nights was perfect for us.
I would strongly urge you to go to Koyasan. It was the highlight of probably both trips, and we didn't find the travel time to be that bad.
If you haven't read them already, you can find more details on my two trip reports. Have fun planning!
Jul 21st, 2015, 04:20 AM
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russ, I have reread your TRs several times, they were very helpful in drafting an itinerary. And since I have one less day than I thought (I must have mixed up by excluding the two nights in Tokyo) it is good to know that 1 night in Shibu Onsen is sufficient. My only concern is having two 1 nighters in a row but being able to forward luggage will help with this.
Kja, I appreciate your comments because I was wondering about Himeji. I would love to hear more about the differences in the Takayama and Kanazawa experiences. With an additional night (if I cut one night from Shibu Onsen), there would be time to stop at S-go.
I would welcome comments on whether going to Fuji 5 lakes is "worth it" for the pink moss viewing and possibility of glimpsing Mt Fuji (our big disappointment in Hakone). Thanks everyone.
Kja, I appreciate your comments because I was wondering about Himeji. I would love to hear more about the differences in the Takayama and Kanazawa experiences. With an additional night (if I cut one night from Shibu Onsen), there would be time to stop at S-go.
I would welcome comments on whether going to Fuji 5 lakes is "worth it" for the pink moss viewing and possibility of glimpsing Mt Fuji (our big disappointment in Hakone). Thanks everyone.
Jul 21st, 2015, 02:06 PM
#19
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"With an additional night (if I cut one night from Shibu Onsen), there would be time to stop at S-go."
Your call! But if you are considering a day trip from Kyoto to Himeji, then adding the night to Kyoto might make most sense. Many of us found 6 nights in Kyoto / Nara barely enough -- I certainly would have loved more time in the area, and time in Himeji was not part of my 6 days there.
Your call! But if you are considering a day trip from Kyoto to Himeji, then adding the night to Kyoto might make most sense. Many of us found 6 nights in Kyoto / Nara barely enough -- I certainly would have loved more time in the area, and time in Himeji was not part of my 6 days there.
Jul 24th, 2015, 03:40 AM
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've not gotten feedback on Lake Kawaguchi and I'm thinking it might not make sense because we were just in Hakone....though I still want that glimpse of Mt Fuji! Wondering if a day or two on the Noto Peninsula might make sense to vary the experiences a bit. Might have to get help from KimJapan!
