lol. Your curiosity is kinda flattering, holikurry.

I'll answer one part of it. India is part of an odyssey. I've been there a lot lately because it's very big and it's taking me a long time to go through it carefully. 'Cos, as you know, there isn't just ONE India - there are about fifty. It's a

[OOPS hit the wrong button]

wonderful three dimensional game of snakes and ladders - so, I have to play.

The odyssey began in central Australia and moved up. Rock Art in Arnhem Land. The 700 tribes of Papua New Guinea, inland, then the islands. Tobriands, Rabaul, New Ireland, Komodo. Bali. up up up, thru Borneo, past Singapore and K.L., Penang, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand then Burma, Burma, Burma. Ahh.

I ended up high on the Chindwin, next door to the Indian border a coupla years ago. I looked over at the mountains. There was India - Assam.

Assam led me to Bhutan, to Nepal and Darjeeling, Sikkim and down the Hoogli into West Bengal. Kolkata. Wow. Kolkata.
Varanasi, Goa, Karnatika, Mumbai, Madhya Pradesh, tribal festivals in Gujarat, the faded ghosts of the Maharajas.

There's a ton more of India I haven't even touched yet. All of it is interesting to Dog.

Why am I doing this? Ahh - dunno.

Okay dogster - you either hit the jackpot or have got a rich wife ;-)

Chatting about PNG would be interesting...............

SV

its just possible that he is smitten with travel and SEA travel including india in particular....he finds the means to do it and why not???

You might want to contact your hotel in Jaipur and get a quote from them as at least the next day you would have a driver from Jaipur who would probably know his way around better than a driver from Agra.
We've been quoted 2800rp for the drive from Agra to Jaipur stopping off at Fatehpur Sikri and Abhaneri. We were told we should pay around 6rp per km which as you have to pay for the return trip for the driver it's a total of 470kms which works out at 2820rps so I think we're paying the right price.

Dogster: Have you written somewhere about the rock art in Arnhem Land?

No, Indiana - but, by coincidence I was looking at my pics the other day. This is not the correct forum to address this but there is one secret place in Arnhem Land that is the REAL DEAL.
www.arnhemland-safaris.com.
All you have to do is stay at the bush camp at Mt. Borrodaile. Forget all the rest. But expensive, oh lordy, expenive.

Hi ray, I just got back from India yesterday. We used Rajasthan Four wheel drive. The contact person was Anil Sinha. We spent 2 days in Delhi, a day in agra, drive to Bharatpur and Fatehpur sikri, a day in Jaipur. The drivers were very professional and courteous. In Agra, they contract it to another company. The driver we had in Delhi and jaipur were very good. Anil kept in touch with us to ensure that everything was going well. If I go back to delhi, we will surely use RFWD again.

We have been quoted $2500 each for 12 days Golden Triangle/Nepal (round trip Delhi)including everything but lunch and dinner by a tour company (private car).

Is this reasonable, or should we do our own hotels and hire drivers/guides separately?

This package rate is for the Taj group of hotels.

Thanks for any input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi all, I'm new to the site and will apologize now for asking my question on the incorrect thread.....

Travelaw and Dogster I have read many of your entries and have found your information invaluable. I am planning my first trip to India and have spent hours reading on this site and on others. Travelaw, your trip report was the best I've read - full of fabulous information.

So....I wanted to thank you both for all your time spent advising others - and ask a question of you (and everyone else) - since you have been conversing here (even if it has been a little heated - albeit entertaining) I thought you both may read this.

I'm trying to put a budget together for our trip - we plan to be in India for about 35 days. I find tons of info on accommodation, car and driver etc., but have no idea how much to plan per day for meals, entry fees, and incidentals. Can either of you give me an idea? We are two couples - late 40's early 50's and are interested in a mid range trip - it seems similar to what you reported on your trip report Travelaw.

Any info you could provide would be much appreciated.

And....thanks again (everyone) for the valuable and entertaining reading on your 'India' experiences.

As an Indian-born American, I have travelled in India many times with many drivers. I would highly recommend Ramesh Meena ([email protected]). We hired him through his current company India By Car and Driver. Firstly, he is trained in safe driving techniques and anyone who has been to India will understand how important this is. Secondly, he is a great resource for anyone who is new to India, especially Rajasthan. All his suggestions as far as sights, hotels, shops, and restaurants were spot on. But he is also not aggressive in his suggestions for these things. Once again, anyone who has travelled to India may have encountered the driver who clearly has his own agenda as far as places he takes people, most likely because of some pre-arranged commission deal. Ramesh is not like that at all. He gave suggestions when asked and honored our decisions without any resistance. In fact for our next trip to Rajasthan, I would be comfortable in letting Ramesh arrange all our hotels and itineraries. But I think the best thing about Ramesh is his personality. He is genuinely a nice person... very likeable, easy-going, and quite funny. One ends up spending quite a bit of time in the car, so the personality of the driver is very important. Ramesh seems to enjoy his work very much and this really makes for a fun journey. I cannot recommend him highly enough.

Thanks, for the info....

I think I've finally figured it out. I was really confused about Ramesh/Anil and Four Wheel Drive India.

I just realized that there are two company's - on is Four Wheel Drive India and the other is Four Wheels Drive India. Am I correct that Ramesh previously worked for one company and then started his own under the different name?

I have just contacted Ramesh about our itinerary and a quote on using his driving services, but it didn't sound like it would be him personally that did the driving.

It sounds like having him would be a real benefit.

Thanks again,

Hi misty: nearly didn't see you there. It occurs to me that all the other posters are praising Ramesh, in particular.

'the best thing about Ramesh is his personality...'

So, if you ain't gonna have HIM, frankly I don't really see any benefit in using his company over any other one. Same same. Ramesh has the personality and the skills - not necessarily his 18 year old cousin, his next-door neighbor's son or his uncle twice removed. lol.

It'll be fascinating to see his quote.

BTW I reckon, misty, that you'll get more attention if you make your own posts, . It's easy to get lost and disheartened when you're hidden at the bottom of someone else's old post. Don't be scared. lol.

As for the meals, incidentals part of your question - it's really difficult to answer. You can go out and have a great meal for 68 rupees [$1.20] or spend $100. A lot of it depends on your comfort level and on how adventurous you are. Me, I play it safe, tummy-wise - certainly for the first week or so. If you don't get response in here, make a new post and ask. It'd be interesting to see the replies.

Thanks for your reply Dogster - and your advice.

Since my last post I clarified with Ramesh and he said he would do the driving himself. That was good news.

So, I now have 3 quotes.

Anil from 4 Wheel Drive India quoted 3450 INR per day for a Toyota Innova

Rafiq from Heritage Jouney quoted 4416 per day for a Toyota Innova

Ramesh from 4 Wheels Drive India quoted 3250 per day (I think) for a Toyota Innova. It wasn't as clear from him exactly what portion of our trip her would provide service for.

Hard to know who to go with - safety is a big concern for me and so is having a driver that will be personable since we will spend so much time together. I can see that it could really impact the trip if we had trouble with our driver. I have heard good things about both Rafiq and Ramesh, but I won't know who the driver is with Anil's company. So.....?

I will definitely ask ask my questions about meals on a new post. Thanks again for the advice.

Hi misty

I can't advise you here. I reckon that travelaw's trip report is a clue. Either way, as you know, basic costs for a car and driver are around 2,500 - 3000 a day - but, as you also know, the cheapest quote ain't always the best.

It isn't bad manners in India to spell out EVERYTHING in your communications. Exactly which car? I assume those prices cover road taxes, petrol, driver's costs? They should. No hidden extras - clean cost. No problems.

Ask Ramesh to spell out EXACTLY which part of your trip he providing service for. Get everything in writing, tedious though it may be. Carry a copy of your all your E-mail correspondance.

After travelaw's glowing recco I think there's an obvious choice, assuming you get what you want. She mightn't see this post. But yeah, the choice of your traveling companions, paid or otherwise, can make or break a trip.

Just remember, a driver is not a guide. He's a driver.He might be a cool dude, a pal and give you good advice, but when you need detailed info at a site, you'll have to hire an extra guy.

Also remember, whoever you choose - bottom line, he is your employee, not your buddy. This is your trip, not his. Accept his suggestions, by all means - but always know that there is a kick-back. That's normal, that's India - but you are paying it. When your driver tells you there is no commission - he's stretching the truth, one way or another. Like with rock'n roll - the real money is in the merchandising.

No matter. Re-read those trip reports now and decide. How exciting.

Hi Misty, So nice to read that you enjoyed my trip report. As you probably figured out, we went with Anil's Company on our trip. We had problems with the first driver we were assigned and demanded a replacement driver, who turned out to be Ramesh. As you have also now figured out, Ramesh has since started his own company. If you can get Ramesh as your driver, go for it. As another poster said, he is a great source of info -- he knows his stuff -- took us to the correct entrances of sights and tipped us off on how much we should pay for things, e.g., the tuktuk at Fatehpur Sikri. But, as dogster so correctly pointed out, he is not a guide, and if you want one, you will have to hire guides where you want them. Dogster is also spot on that this is YOUR trip -- you decide where you want to go and when (within reason, of course) -- your driver is your resource -- and you can decide how much you want to include him or not. With Ramesh, we found he was very respectful and maintained a professional relationship with us. And, even when we invited him to eat with us on occasion, he mostly declined to -- he understood that this was OUR trip and seemed to feel uncomfortable with being included. Most definitely get everything in writing. This protects you and your driver and his company.

As for costs, of course it varies depending on how fancy you want to get. Breakfast, as you know, is included with the hotel usualy, so you only need to worry about lunch and dinner -- and some snacks once in a while. Except for the days we sprang for really nice restaurants (maybe $150 for 3 people), I would say we probably spent $20-25 per day per person for both lunch and dinner. Entrance fees varied, of course. Some places are more tourist oriented and fees are higher (Delhi, Udaipur, Jaipur and Agra) - but I would say on average we probably didn't spend more than $10 per person per day on entrance fees

Whoops -- submitted before I was ready. in any case, let me know if I can be of further assistance. When is your trip? Do you have an itinerary yet? If so, and you want to post it, I will be happy to look up what we paid for entrance fees in any places in common with our trip.

You will have an amazing time in India. We loved it and can't wait to get back. My lucky daughter is heading back in November for a month in Mumbai to work in a Hindi film program. I am hoping to get back sometime in the late winter during a break from an overseas assignment.

Keep us in the loop and let us know how your planning is going! I'm excited for you, too!!! (Hiya dogster -- I hope you are recovering well my friend!)

Hi misty, I use four wheel about three years ago. Rafiq is old us driver for four wheel and Ramesh is I think is a new driver. I will suggest you better then. One driver to go with company. Then you are more safe so i recommend fourwheeldriveindia this company run by Mr. anil (not four wheels) 200 or 250 rupees is not very Importent then to the life think your self.......

Hi travelaw, Thanks for the reply and the great info. We're really leaning towards booking with Ramesh - it sounds like that would be the reliable choice. I would worry booking with Anil as we would have no idea who the driver would be - and who knows, we might end up with the one you started with.....

We're not going until Nov 2010 so I have lots of time.

How did you find booking your own guides - do you think I'm wise to go with just a car and driver and hire my own guides as we go, or would you suggest booking with a company like Mr. Singh at Legends and Palaces? I don't want the trip too 'scheduled' but then I want to make sure we have best experience we can.

Any suggestions you or others may have on this itinerary would be really welcomed...here it is...

Day 1 – arrive in Delhi late and spend the night – Nov. 28th
Day 2 - Delhi
Day 3 – Fly to Kathmandu - 3 nights
Day 4 – Kathmandu
Day 5 - Kathmandu
Day 6 – Kathmandu to Delhi – 2 night
Day 7 – Delhi
Day 8 – Delhi to Amritsar – by train – 2 nights
Day 9 - Amritsar
Day 10 – Amritsar to Patiala – 5 hrs drive - explore Mukandpur (this is my husband's families village) on the way – 1 night
Day 11 – Patiala to South Delhi - 4 ½ hrs drive. Spend 1 night
Day 12 – Drive to Agra – 3 ½ hrs Spend 2 night
Day 13 – Agra
Day 14 – Drive to Jaipur – 5 hrs drive. Spend 3 nights
Day 15 – Jaipur
Day 16 – Jaipur
Day 17 – Drive to Bikaner – 2 nights
Day 18 – Bikaner
Day 19 - Drive to Jaisalmer– 3 nights
Day 20 – Jaisalmer
Day 21 – Jaisalmer
Day 22 – Drive to Jodhpur– 2 nights
Day 23 – Jodhpur –
Day 24 – Drive to Pali/Dhamli – 1 night
Day 25 – Drive to Udaipur – 3 nights
Day 26 - Udaipur
Day 27 – Udaipur
Day 28 – Fly to Mumbai - 2 nights
Day 29 - Mumbai
Day 30 – Fly to Kolkata 2 nights
Day 31 – Kolkata
Day 32 - Kolkata then overnight train to Varanasi
Day 33 – Varanasi – 2 nights
Day 34 – Varanasi
Day 35 -Varanasi - then overnight train to Delhi
Day 36 – Delhi arrive early morning leave from home late that night

Thanks again everyone for the great info and help!!!

Hi Misty,

We just hired guides as we went. Sometimes we hired a guide through the hotel, sometimes we just found one at the entrance of the site we were visiting. I usually try to talk to the guide a bit before we hire to check language skills and personality. We've had to fire guides occasionally -- bottom line if he or she isn't illuminating your visit and is causing you more angst than benefit, cut your losses. We've also relied on guidebooks a lot for basic narrative. After years of travel, we often just want to enjoy the ambiance of a place rather than fill our heads with minute details of its history. If a place really grabs you, you can always read up on it later. Also, not having pre-arranged guides gives you more liberty on the trip to change plans -- prearranged guides can lock you in to a time slot -- and even if they are flexible, it still adds a chore on your part to get in touch with them and rearrange the logistics while you are traveling. Who needs that extra responsibility? Of course, each of us has our own way of traveling that suits us, and you may feel more comfortable having everything pre-arranged and stick closer to a time table. We often like to do things on a whim, so we feel confined by pre-arrangements. Does that help?

Your trip sounds great, though pretty busy. I see you are planning at least 2 nights in each place, which is good. Personally I would subtract either Mumbai or Kolkata and add at least one night to Varansi and the other night to whichever city you decide -- Kolkata or Mumbai.

Let me look up our entrance fees and incidental costs in the cities we have in common and get back to you.

Hi Travlaw,

Thanks for the advise. Sounds like hiring guides as we want/need them is the way to go. I agree with you, we really don't want our trip too scheduled which is why we didn't want to go with a 'tour'.

I think I read you went to Mumbai, did you go to Kolkata? Just wondering if you had a preference of one over the other?

Look forward to 'chatting' again.

We have not been to Kolkata, but intend to get there one of these days. We like Mumbai a lot, and have friends there. The person who might help you best with this question is dogster -- he has posted reports from both cities.

Regarding entrance fees and incidental costs, here is some info I was able to track down from our trip by city -- hope it is helpful!

Costs are per person unless noted. Sometimes the video camera fee is more than the still camera fee, sometimes the fee includes both.

Delhi: Car with driver arranged by B&B 2000 Rs per day (for 3 persons); Car from airport 850 Rs (3 persons); Car to airport 650 Rs (3 persons); Lunches – about 350 Rs. Dinner – went to more expensive places that ran us over $100 US (total for 3 persons); Red Fort 25 Rs (think we also paid 25 Rs for camera fee); Jama Masjid 200 Rs; Qutb Minar US $5; Humayan’s Tomb US $5; Lotus Temple free; Crafts museum free; India gate free; Henna application 50 Rs.

Kathmandu: Visa fee US $25; Tourism Service Fee 565 NRs; Car pick up by hotel free; Car and driver arranged by hotel about US $100 per day (don’t have receipt for this, so this is from memory, it was for 3 persons in a sedan); Lunches generally 2-300 NRs; Dinners generally about US $25; Kathmandu tourist fee 200 NRs; Changu Narayan 100 NRs; Bhaktapur 750 NRs; Patan 200 NRs; Bouhanath 100 NRs; Swayambhu 100 NRs; Pashupatinath 250 NRs.

Agra: Lunches about 100 Rs; Dinners about US $20; Taj ticket (includes Agra Fort, Baby Taj, Sikandra and Fatehpur Sikri if you visit them all the same day you buy the ticket) 500 Rs (non-Indian); camera fee Taj 25Rs; camera fee Baby Taj 25 Rs; Fatehpur sikri (we visited on a different day) US $5; Fatehpur Sikri camera fee 25Rs; tuk-tuk fee in Fatehpur – can’t remember offhand, but ask the driver and he will tell you the most you should pay – probably a few hundred Rs. We had our car and driver in Agra (and all of the cities below except Mumbai and Varanasi), so we didn’t pay anything for local transport.

Jaipur: Lunches about 100-200 Rs; dinners about US $15; Amber Fort 50 Rs; Elephants to fort 1140 Rs (two elephants carrying 3 people); City Palace 180 Rs (? – not on receipt); camera fee City Palace 200 Rs; Jantar Mantar 100 Rs; Hawa Mahal (did not enter, but the cost is just a few Rs); internet fees at the hotel were 20 Rs for 20 minutes; Galta Kund100 Rs.

Bikaner; lunches about 100 Rs; dinners about US $20; Camel Research Center 10 Rs; camera fee 20 Rs; Rat temple – I think there is normally a fee but there was no one there to collect it so we just walked in. I think we paid the guide about 500 Rs. Also paid a few Rs for the guy to watch our shoes.

Jaisalmer: Lunches about 100-150 Rs; Dinners about US $15 (mostly at the hotel); Camel safari (including dinner and entertainment) – I think we paid about 2000 Rs (for 3 people); Bada Bagh Cenotaphs 50 Rs; Bada Bagh camera fee 20 Rs; drinks at hotel 650 Rs for 3; beer 350 Rs for 2; Jaisalmer Fort 150 Rs.

Jodhpur: Lunches about 100-200 Rs; Dinners about $10 US (several at the hotel); Mehrangarh Fort 200 Rs (includes audio tour which is quite good); camera fee fort 200 Rs; Jaswant Thada 30 Rs; Jaswant Thada camera fee 50 Rs; Umaid Bhawan Palace Museum 50 Rs.

Udaiur: Rankapur 150 Rs; camera fees 340 Rs (for 2 video and one still); auto rickshaws 20 Rs; Lunches about 200 Rs; Dinners about US $20 (several at Jagat Niwas, which was pretty good); Internet 10 Rs for 15 minutes; City Palace complex 25Rs; City Palace Museum 30 Rs; Boat Ride Lake Pichola 300 Rs (there may be a combined ticket for the city palace complex, museum and boat fee, but these were the fees listed on the tickets); camera fee 200 Rs; Bagore Ki Haveli cultural show 60 Rs.

Mumbai: Reality Tours and Travel (slum visit and Mumbai City tour including lunch) 2000 Rs; Lunches 4-500 Rs; Dinners US $15-20; Elephanta Island 300 Rs (boat and entry fee?—don’t have receipt), 5 Rs tourist tax, 5 Rs Train ride, camera fee elephanta caves 25 Rs. Didn’t save receipts for the Art Museum but it was only a few Rs.

Varansi; Auto Rickshaws 50 Rs; Lunches and Dinners at the hotel – 2-300 Rs (for 3); Lunch at Kesari (I would avoid this place because of the lack of cleanliness) 350 Rs (for 3); boat ride on the Ganges about 50 Rs an hour. Sarnath was a few hundred Rs for 3 – again, don’t have the receipt.

Thanks for this comprehensive report, travelaw. You always come through with thorough, practical info. We're leaving mid-November. We've booked Ramesh Meena as our driver. What is the protocol for making payment? Is it done at the end of each day, week, what? Thanks, and I hope all is going well with you.

I'm working out daily to strengthen my elephant riding stance . . .

When we used Ramesh Meena he was working for another company, so I don't know how he is handling it now that he is on his own. On our trip, we paid for the car and driver when we got to Jaipur -- which is where the company office was. That said, I guess it depends on how long you will be using the driver -- weekly would be okay -- but certainly I wouldn't do it daily. I think it is fine to wait till the end or near the end of the trip -- my experience is that is okay with most drivers/companies. If you want to tip, I would definitely do that at the very end. We put something in a sealed envelope and gave it to the driver when we were departing his services, but that of course is up to you.

By the way pearl, you will do fine on the elephant -- really very little stress at all -- you just sit in the basket and enjoy. Now camels . . .

Thanks for your kind comments. I am off for my year-long assignment in a couple of weeks. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers!

Wow, Travlaw....that's great information. Thanks for taking the time to look all this up in your records. That will really help me put my budget together.

Pearl, we got a quote from Ramesh. He said we make a small deposit ahead (when we book) and pay the balance at the end. He didn't say, but I would imagine he would take cash rather than credit card although the website looks like they take CC.

Thanks again Travlaw and have a wonderful trip Pearl. Look forward to hearing about it when you return.

We made contact with Ramesh originally when he was in transition to his own business. We wired $USD100 to his bank as a security.

He e-mailed a resume and an informational booklet. We've refined our itinerary a bit more and will reconnect again in the next few days.

I think it's a good idea to pay in cash where possible and we try to do so.

I doubt the prayers of this old heathen would do much good, but I will keep you in my thoughts. I recall that you're going on a tough assignment, but one that might be quite interesting.