SURGE PROTECTOR IN BURMA?
Dec 29th, 2013, 10:53 AM
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SURGE PROTECTOR IN BURMA?
Hi all:
I'm packing mow for my flight on Tues. to Yangon. Should I get a surge protector ( I already have a converter) Is the current reliable?
Love to do without but ...
best
Ted
I'm packing mow for my flight on Tues. to Yangon. Should I get a surge protector ( I already have a converter) Is the current reliable?
Love to do without but ...
best
Ted
Dec 29th, 2013, 02:59 PM
#4
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Yes especially for Myanmar. A small good surge protector will do the job. It has been a few years since I travelled to Myanmar and at that time several hotels generate their own electricity with very unstable current. I use a Belkin but my is a few years old there might be a newer and better unit.
http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BZ103050-TVL/
http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BZ103050-TVL/
Dec 29th, 2013, 03:21 PM
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We did have some power outages during our trip and were glad we'd gotten a small surge protector at the last minute before we went. I think it's a great idea just to be safe (especially if you're plugging in a laptop or something else expensive). Ours was even smaller than the Belkin version linked above so if you're worried about size/weight you can find one with just a single outlet that doesn't weigh much at all.
Dec 29th, 2013, 03:25 PM
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> Should I get a surge protector ( I already have
> a converter) Is the current reliable?
First learn numbers for your appliances. Portable electronics are designed for all voltages from 85 to 265 VAC. If your portable devices do not, then it is time to eliminate electronics that are many decades obsolete.
You have assumed electronics are weak and easily damaged. View those numbers. Normal voltages are well beyond what the worst power systems might provide. Because best protection for electronics is already inside electronics.
Electrical anomalies include frequency variation, power factor, blackouts, EMI/EMC, noise, harmonics, spikes, and others. No plug-in device addresses all. Most anomalies are made irrelevant by how a power supply is designed. No plug-in conditioner addresses most anomalies. Curing a problem means you must first identify the specific problem. Any surge protection provided by some magic plug-in device is already done better inside electronics. Those same circuits also mean wide voltage variations (ie 85 to 265) are perfectly ideal power.
Be more concerned for motorized appliances. Many anomalies, ideal power for electronics, can be more harmful to motorized appliances.
> a converter) Is the current reliable?
First learn numbers for your appliances. Portable electronics are designed for all voltages from 85 to 265 VAC. If your portable devices do not, then it is time to eliminate electronics that are many decades obsolete.
You have assumed electronics are weak and easily damaged. View those numbers. Normal voltages are well beyond what the worst power systems might provide. Because best protection for electronics is already inside electronics.
Electrical anomalies include frequency variation, power factor, blackouts, EMI/EMC, noise, harmonics, spikes, and others. No plug-in device addresses all. Most anomalies are made irrelevant by how a power supply is designed. No plug-in conditioner addresses most anomalies. Curing a problem means you must first identify the specific problem. Any surge protection provided by some magic plug-in device is already done better inside electronics. Those same circuits also mean wide voltage variations (ie 85 to 265) are perfectly ideal power.
Be more concerned for motorized appliances. Many anomalies, ideal power for electronics, can be more harmful to motorized appliances.
Dec 30th, 2013, 08:43 PM
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> surges when the power comes back on.
A popular myth created when electrical knowledge does not exist. If power on creates a destructive surge, then so does normal operation. Since normal power turns off 100 or 120 times every second, then surges always exist - using reasoning provided by hearsay.
What happens when power is restored? Voltage slowly climbs to normal. Hard on motorized appliances. And ideal for electronics.
What happens when power goes off? Voltage goes to near zero. And then slowly climbs back to normal when power is restored. Where is a number that defines a destructive spike?
Read numbers provided with every protector. Protector will ignore all voltages below its let-through voltage. That number is 330 volts for 120 volt operation and somewhere around 600 volts for 240 volt operation. Any spike below that number is completely ignored. Is power restoration creating a spike that high? Obviously not. But again, hearsay and urban myths *forget* numbers to promote myths and lies.
A protector does nothing to protect from a blackout. As in nothing.
A protector must be selected unique to that country. For many reasons including fire. Fire is a too common problem with appliance adjacent protectors. Most who recommend protectors are even unaware of that danger.
Power outages do not cause damage. Protectors do not even claim to avert any resulting problems. Post the manufacturer spec number that says otherwise.
A popular myth created when electrical knowledge does not exist. If power on creates a destructive surge, then so does normal operation. Since normal power turns off 100 or 120 times every second, then surges always exist - using reasoning provided by hearsay.
What happens when power is restored? Voltage slowly climbs to normal. Hard on motorized appliances. And ideal for electronics.
What happens when power goes off? Voltage goes to near zero. And then slowly climbs back to normal when power is restored. Where is a number that defines a destructive spike?
Read numbers provided with every protector. Protector will ignore all voltages below its let-through voltage. That number is 330 volts for 120 volt operation and somewhere around 600 volts for 240 volt operation. Any spike below that number is completely ignored. Is power restoration creating a spike that high? Obviously not. But again, hearsay and urban myths *forget* numbers to promote myths and lies.
A protector does nothing to protect from a blackout. As in nothing.
A protector must be selected unique to that country. For many reasons including fire. Fire is a too common problem with appliance adjacent protectors. Most who recommend protectors are even unaware of that danger.
Power outages do not cause damage. Protectors do not even claim to avert any resulting problems. Post the manufacturer spec number that says otherwise.
Dec 31st, 2013, 02:26 PM
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No, the outage doesn't cause damage. As I said, there is often a surge when the power comes back on. I've observed an appliance fried in a power surge when the power came back on here in the US. And I've certainly had our surge protectors tripped before.
Dec 31st, 2013, 10:03 PM
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1) They powered off a computer. It would not restart. Using Katie's logic, it proves power cycling is destructive.
Then I did the analysis. A pullup resistor, to provide bootstrap power, failed. Too many hours of operation (probably months previously) caused that resistor to fail. Damage was due to hours of operation; not power cycling. But nobody knew until the computer was power cycled. Observation could never say why a failure occurred.
2) How does restoration of 120 volts create a 600 volt spike? After generations of design experience, the engineer cannot say why. So Katie will provide the necessary hard facts with numbers.
3) I saw lights in the sky. That proves Martians exist? Observation says so.
4) Since 120 volt power restoration does not create 330+ volt spikes, then a protector does absolutely nothing - would never trip. But somehow an engineer, with generations of experience and facts that dispute the myth, is less informed?
5) And finally, if a surge protector does anything useful, then you never knew a restoration surge existed. Tripping would be an undersized protector failing catastrophically BEFORE power was lost. Its thermal fuse tripped fast enough to avert a resulting fire - because the protector was grossly undersized. The emergency protection (a thermal fuse) protected you from danger - a fire. Properly sized protectors do not trip.
Be concerned about a human safety threat created by protectors that "trip".
Then I did the analysis. A pullup resistor, to provide bootstrap power, failed. Too many hours of operation (probably months previously) caused that resistor to fail. Damage was due to hours of operation; not power cycling. But nobody knew until the computer was power cycled. Observation could never say why a failure occurred.
2) How does restoration of 120 volts create a 600 volt spike? After generations of design experience, the engineer cannot say why. So Katie will provide the necessary hard facts with numbers.
3) I saw lights in the sky. That proves Martians exist? Observation says so.
4) Since 120 volt power restoration does not create 330+ volt spikes, then a protector does absolutely nothing - would never trip. But somehow an engineer, with generations of experience and facts that dispute the myth, is less informed?
5) And finally, if a surge protector does anything useful, then you never knew a restoration surge existed. Tripping would be an undersized protector failing catastrophically BEFORE power was lost. Its thermal fuse tripped fast enough to avert a resulting fire - because the protector was grossly undersized. The emergency protection (a thermal fuse) protected you from danger - a fire. Properly sized protectors do not trip.
Be concerned about a human safety threat created by protectors that "trip".
Jan 1st, 2014, 04:47 AM
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I'll be heading to Myanmar in a few months and although I'll have my iPad with me it will be rejuvenating not to be able to go online for a few weeks.
Side note to westom: you need to read up on "back EMF" and "brownout." The former refers to the most common cause of "surges" after power is turned on, which is a very real phenomenon, as Kathie observed. Mostly associated with motor starts but can also be seen with huge capacitance loads. The surges, or spikes, are not voltage, but rather current, and can be destructive. Modern circuit breakers are designed to withstand these momentary high draws just to prevent tripping whenever power is turned on. So your analysis of why 300 or 600 spikes do not occur is accurate, but you ignored current.
(Easy way to remember the difference is to recall that voltage cannot kill a person ... current does.)
Brownouts are generally a mild version of power outage (via voltage drop) and are often intentional. They are usually benign but some devices can suffer to the point of failure if the brownout lasts too long.
Fortunately, modern electronics are designed to better withstand these two effects. It's more probable in Myanmar that the room A/C would be affected than would your electronics.
Lightning strike protection is a different matter and outside the scope of this post.
Personally I never carry a surge protector when traveling because to be more effective than the protection already embedded in my electronics it would be prohibitively heavy. (Fight fire with fire, in this case, becomes fight back EMF with back EMF!)
Side note to westom: you need to read up on "back EMF" and "brownout." The former refers to the most common cause of "surges" after power is turned on, which is a very real phenomenon, as Kathie observed. Mostly associated with motor starts but can also be seen with huge capacitance loads. The surges, or spikes, are not voltage, but rather current, and can be destructive. Modern circuit breakers are designed to withstand these momentary high draws just to prevent tripping whenever power is turned on. So your analysis of why 300 or 600 spikes do not occur is accurate, but you ignored current.
(Easy way to remember the difference is to recall that voltage cannot kill a person ... current does.)
Brownouts are generally a mild version of power outage (via voltage drop) and are often intentional. They are usually benign but some devices can suffer to the point of failure if the brownout lasts too long.
Fortunately, modern electronics are designed to better withstand these two effects. It's more probable in Myanmar that the room A/C would be affected than would your electronics.
Lightning strike protection is a different matter and outside the scope of this post.
Personally I never carry a surge protector when traveling because to be more effective than the protection already embedded in my electronics it would be prohibitively heavy. (Fight fire with fire, in this case, becomes fight back EMF with back EMF!)
Jan 1st, 2014, 11:38 AM
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Good God !
What a fuss over nothing.
This is supposed to be a travel forum.....and this thread is a perfect example of why I rarely bother here these days.
Come on guys.......lets talk about traveling.......please.
What a fuss over nothing.
This is supposed to be a travel forum.....and this thread is a perfect example of why I rarely bother here these days.
Come on guys.......lets talk about traveling.......please.
Jan 2nd, 2014, 06:45 PM
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> Brownouts are generally a mild version of power outage ... They
> are usually benign but some devices can suffer to the point of failure
> if the brownout lasts too long.
A surge protector was irrationally recommended for brownouts and blackouts. 1) Even manufacturers do not claim to provide such protection. 2) Brownouts and power restoration do not damage electronics. International design standards even 50 years ago even said so with a phrase in all capital letters - "No damage region". Even for longest brownouts.
Brownouts threaten motorized appliances - not electronics. Protectors do nothing for a brownout or blackout.
A traveler's best protection is with no protector. Since best protection from brownouts and power restoration are routine inside all electronics. Back emf current was even discussed with resulting voltages ... that do not damage electronics. Recommendations for a protector comes from hearsay, fear, and wild speculation encouraged by advertising myths.
Critically important: never use a protector, designed for one nation (ie USA), on AC power in another country. In some cases, that mistake can cause a fire, and other regulatory and human safety issues. If you need a protector, only buy ones unique for that nation's power.
Best recommendation was to travel with electronics designed for all voltages from 85 to 265. And no protector.
> are usually benign but some devices can suffer to the point of failure
> if the brownout lasts too long.
A surge protector was irrationally recommended for brownouts and blackouts. 1) Even manufacturers do not claim to provide such protection. 2) Brownouts and power restoration do not damage electronics. International design standards even 50 years ago even said so with a phrase in all capital letters - "No damage region". Even for longest brownouts.
Brownouts threaten motorized appliances - not electronics. Protectors do nothing for a brownout or blackout.
A traveler's best protection is with no protector. Since best protection from brownouts and power restoration are routine inside all electronics. Back emf current was even discussed with resulting voltages ... that do not damage electronics. Recommendations for a protector comes from hearsay, fear, and wild speculation encouraged by advertising myths.
Critically important: never use a protector, designed for one nation (ie USA), on AC power in another country. In some cases, that mistake can cause a fire, and other regulatory and human safety issues. If you need a protector, only buy ones unique for that nation's power.
Best recommendation was to travel with electronics designed for all voltages from 85 to 265. And no protector.
