Daughter going to teach english in Thailand for 5 months
Mar 23rd, 2011, 06:37 AM
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Daughter going to teach english in Thailand for 5 months
My 23 year old daughter is going to teach english for 5 months. She is traveling alone. The state dept. website lists teror warnings and car bombs though not frequent have been increasing in frequency. She will be at a small private school about 1 hour from Bangkok. As her mom I am concerned with her safety. Is it safe for a young woman to travel alone? She doesn't speak the language and looks younger than her age. Those of you that have spent a lot of time there- should I be worried in general? Is this not a good time to go for an extended period of time? Any insight is greatly appreciated.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 08:03 AM
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The bombings that you're referring to has been localised to the far Southern provinces, 3 provinces, of Thailand and it has stemmed from a separatist movement. Unless she plan on going to these 3 provinces then it will not be an issue. As with any big city, if she takes the normal precaution then she should be fine and she would probably enjoy her time here as well.
Have your daughter check the credentials of the school? If you don't mind then give the name of the school here and I can give you my opinion on it.
Have your daughter check the credentials of the school? If you don't mind then give the name of the school here and I can give you my opinion on it.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 08:17 AM
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I've lived in Thailand on and off for the past 28 years. I'm here now. The answer to your question is not simple. Overall the answer is a qualified "yes". Let me see if I can convey some of those caveats without creating undue alarm:
- First, Bangkok is a typical big city with all that implies, and one needs to exercise caution as one would in NY, Mexico City, etc. Tourists often fall into the mind trap of “I’m in a different country, so what is happening is probably normal here (even though I would feel uncomfortable at home if this happened).” Thais are very polite and typically very shy people. A normal Thai will not touch you, aggressively pursue you, make untoward suggestions, … Anyone here who would do so is to be immediately suspect and probably should be distanced as quickly (and politely) as possible. In fact most will not even strike up a conversation, even if they are dying to talk about their child attending college in the States.
- Cell phones begin at less than $30. Buy one and keep numbers of several Thai contacts that you can use to help if you get stuck and need translation or other help. Failing that, English is not spoken by most, but if you keep a cool head and ask around, sooner or later you will find someone who can help (hotels / clinics / doctors / pharmacists / educated people are good places in case of such emergencies).
- As I tell my friends that visit, the two biggest dangers from a statistical standpoint are traffic accidents and mosquitoes. Both are easy to avoid: watch when crossing streets, stay off of motorcycles and use mosquito repellant / nets.
- The political issues in the deep South (near Malaysia) are in provinces which are not typical tourist destinations. The red shirt demonstrations in Bangkok primarily create traffic headaches. Large political gatherings should be avoided anywhere, and they are easy enough to avoid here. These almost never include foreigners.
- Thai food is very healthy and I’d recommend sticking to it for most meals. The only times I have been to a hospital with food poisoning have always been after eating Western food (each time at was at well known Western food chains). I attribute this to a lack of understanding about handling “strange” things like mayonnaise.
- Drugs, alcohol, bars and all that are to be avoided. Yes, Thailand has a reputation for being a place where “partying” is tolerated, but it should be noted that the seediest of people from around the world come here to participate (sadly I have to recommend avoiding socializing with Westerners here because of that). Even though there appears to be a tolerance for many illegal activities, it’s more derived from spotty enforcement than lack of harsh penalties. These activities are pretty much concentrated in “red light” areas and not flowing out on the streets; it’s easy enough and best to avoid.
- The things that fall under “significant annoyances” more so than actual dangers include taxi drivers who will cheat you by charging a high, flat rate rather than using the meter, or other business people who will over-charge by relatively large amounts of money. There are pick-pockets in crowded areas (never happened to me, but…) and so on. Again, typical big city stuff.
Most Thais are very nice people. I’ve had taxi drivers return money I’d dropped in their cabs (amounting to several days pay for them) and people have taken time out of their busy schedules to walk me to where I was going to ensure I did not get lost (again). Good manners here include thinking of the other person’s needs; being a good host / guest; speaking politely, respectfully, positively and patiently at all times; showing respect for the other person’s body (for example, no touching), etc.
It will make for smoother relations if one remembers that negatives are always handled by a lack of positive. “Did you like the tea?” if answered, “I preferred the fruit juice” will be understood as “no, I did not like the tea”. Direct negatives are considered abrupt and rude. (Note that they do love to gossip and anything negative you say about someone or something will go straight back to the subject!)
These are the basics for getting along here. I don’t know what you might consider unacceptable risks, I can only speak for myself, and I don’t hesitate to go walking or traveling with my young son just about anywhere. If she decides to come, I hope your daughter has an enjoyable time and finds it an educational experience.
Regards,
- First, Bangkok is a typical big city with all that implies, and one needs to exercise caution as one would in NY, Mexico City, etc. Tourists often fall into the mind trap of “I’m in a different country, so what is happening is probably normal here (even though I would feel uncomfortable at home if this happened).” Thais are very polite and typically very shy people. A normal Thai will not touch you, aggressively pursue you, make untoward suggestions, … Anyone here who would do so is to be immediately suspect and probably should be distanced as quickly (and politely) as possible. In fact most will not even strike up a conversation, even if they are dying to talk about their child attending college in the States.
- Cell phones begin at less than $30. Buy one and keep numbers of several Thai contacts that you can use to help if you get stuck and need translation or other help. Failing that, English is not spoken by most, but if you keep a cool head and ask around, sooner or later you will find someone who can help (hotels / clinics / doctors / pharmacists / educated people are good places in case of such emergencies).
- As I tell my friends that visit, the two biggest dangers from a statistical standpoint are traffic accidents and mosquitoes. Both are easy to avoid: watch when crossing streets, stay off of motorcycles and use mosquito repellant / nets.
- The political issues in the deep South (near Malaysia) are in provinces which are not typical tourist destinations. The red shirt demonstrations in Bangkok primarily create traffic headaches. Large political gatherings should be avoided anywhere, and they are easy enough to avoid here. These almost never include foreigners.
- Thai food is very healthy and I’d recommend sticking to it for most meals. The only times I have been to a hospital with food poisoning have always been after eating Western food (each time at was at well known Western food chains). I attribute this to a lack of understanding about handling “strange” things like mayonnaise.
- Drugs, alcohol, bars and all that are to be avoided. Yes, Thailand has a reputation for being a place where “partying” is tolerated, but it should be noted that the seediest of people from around the world come here to participate (sadly I have to recommend avoiding socializing with Westerners here because of that). Even though there appears to be a tolerance for many illegal activities, it’s more derived from spotty enforcement than lack of harsh penalties. These activities are pretty much concentrated in “red light” areas and not flowing out on the streets; it’s easy enough and best to avoid.
- The things that fall under “significant annoyances” more so than actual dangers include taxi drivers who will cheat you by charging a high, flat rate rather than using the meter, or other business people who will over-charge by relatively large amounts of money. There are pick-pockets in crowded areas (never happened to me, but…) and so on. Again, typical big city stuff.
Most Thais are very nice people. I’ve had taxi drivers return money I’d dropped in their cabs (amounting to several days pay for them) and people have taken time out of their busy schedules to walk me to where I was going to ensure I did not get lost (again). Good manners here include thinking of the other person’s needs; being a good host / guest; speaking politely, respectfully, positively and patiently at all times; showing respect for the other person’s body (for example, no touching), etc.
It will make for smoother relations if one remembers that negatives are always handled by a lack of positive. “Did you like the tea?” if answered, “I preferred the fruit juice” will be understood as “no, I did not like the tea”. Direct negatives are considered abrupt and rude. (Note that they do love to gossip and anything negative you say about someone or something will go straight back to the subject!)
These are the basics for getting along here. I don’t know what you might consider unacceptable risks, I can only speak for myself, and I don’t hesitate to go walking or traveling with my young son just about anywhere. If she decides to come, I hope your daughter has an enjoyable time and finds it an educational experience.
Regards,
Mar 23rd, 2011, 08:18 AM
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The number one thing to check on is whther she is being employed by a reputable school who will take care of the visa issues and will pay her, etc.
Thailand itself is a lovely country and it's quite safe. In terms of perosnal safety, she would likely be safer there than in any large American city. Of course, she should exercise normal precautions.
Thailand itself is a lovely country and it's quite safe. In terms of perosnal safety, she would likely be safer there than in any large American city. Of course, she should exercise normal precautions.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 08:41 AM
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I totally don't agree with tsbrownie's advice about "direct negatives". In a restaurant or with a food vendor, if you find the food too salty then say it directly or if you don't like the ice tea then tell them so. It is not considered as rude here in Thailand.
Of course, like in most part of the world, if you're eating a meal in some one's house then you should used your judgement in choosing your answer when you don't like something.
Of course, like in most part of the world, if you're eating a meal in some one's house then you should used your judgement in choosing your answer when you don't like something.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 10:13 AM
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I appreciate the time you have taken to write me back. Very impressive and very grateful for the insight. I would like to hear about about the school, Phoenix in Jomtiem. They have emailed a copy of her work contract along with the other papers she will need to get her work permit and Visa. They are telling her to get a multiple non immigrant B Visa for 6 months but everything I read says they only issue 90 day Visas and you have to leave Thailand to get it renewed.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 10:19 AM
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The school is in Jomtien(Pattaya) which is around a two plus hours drive from Bangkok. I have not heard of it before but I am not too familiar with schools outside of Bangkok. I will ask some of my friends in this business and let you know.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 10:25 AM
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If your daughter is like so many others who visit Thailand for their first time, they will be wondering (when they get back home) how soon they can return!
I'm sure your daughter will have a lonvely time. And yes, you really should go and visit her!!!
I'm sure your daughter will have a lonvely time. And yes, you really should go and visit her!!!
Mar 23rd, 2011, 10:38 AM
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WEBSITE FOR SCHOOL IS WWW.PHOENIXKINDERGARTEN.COM
Mar 23rd, 2011, 03:56 PM
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Jomtien is basically the next bay over from Pattaya but not as built up. The bach town of Pattaya is rather seedy and does have a lot of vices but if one is not looking for those vices then it's fine - be aware of foreign gangs around there as well.
Just from googling the Phoenix school seems like an established school and she should be fine. I believe it's quite normal for someone seeking employment in Thailand to first arrive here with a non immigrant B visa and once here the school should be able to apply for a work permit for your daughter.
Just from googling the Phoenix school seems like an established school and she should be fine. I believe it's quite normal for someone seeking employment in Thailand to first arrive here with a non immigrant B visa and once here the school should be able to apply for a work permit for your daughter.
Mar 23rd, 2011, 06:22 PM
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The Jomtien - Pattaya area won't be the end of the world for your daughter. Yeah, there is an active nightlife that is easy to avoid. She will find modern malls, fancy movie theaters showing current releases, a variety of restaurants, good supermarkets and cheap transportation. Also dentists, doctors and hospitals are available in that area for any emergencies.
She will have a nice time in Thailand. If she intends to use a debit or credit card in Thailand she should first notify her bank that she will be overseas and where. There are cheap buses to Bangkok if she wants to visit another city or fly to another country on her off time. Lots of internet shops available for emails home.
She will have a nice time in Thailand. If she intends to use a debit or credit card in Thailand she should first notify her bank that she will be overseas and where. There are cheap buses to Bangkok if she wants to visit another city or fly to another country on her off time. Lots of internet shops available for emails home.
Mar 26th, 2011, 09:12 PM
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She'll be quite safe - here's my list of tips............
Here are 20 things to think about when visiting Thailand…
1. Bring a mobile (cell) phone. It should be “unlocked” - this can be done either at home or in Thailand - then buy a Thai SIM card for it on arrival, they’re cheap (approx. 50 baht) or even free and depending on cost include some credit already on them. International calls to Oz/UK are about 5 - 8baht per min…Phones are cheap to buy too – and unblocked. Use the cheap rate international dialling numbers – 004, 5, 6, 7 8 9 etc.
2. Money - Bring ATM cards: - debit credit etc. - check fees and tell your bank your are going abroad. - Take Travellers cheques best for back-up. Bring very little cash (Baht) – you almost always get a better rate of exchange here than any home country. You can change money on arriving at the airport... Banks and ATMs -(keep some cash in reserve in case of flight delays/diversions etc) BEWARE - there is now a 150 baht surcharge for all foreign cards used in most ATMs!
3. Booking – there is usually no need to book rooms before you come as there is plenty of cheap accommodation. Exceptions would be in high season if you want a particular place and maybe for your first one or two nights just to get orientated.
4. Bring very few clothes – they are cheap here and you’ll only bring stuff that is too warm anyway.
5. Very little luggage – this makes you more mobile if you need to be and less vulnerable to taxi touts and undesirable men….Before you go home you can buy any extra luggage (cheap) to take souvenirs etc.
6. Internet access is everywhere – even on the beach… you can get all your photos copied to CD - If you have a lap-top you can connect it there's wi-fi in many public places cafes malls etc.)...and many hotels have wifi broadband - fees very immensely
7. Food - Thai food is very unlikely to give you food poisoning but can contain more chillies than you ever thought possible….Street food is usually safe (and delicious!), check for numbers of customers and general looks of the stall. Western (“farang”) food is much more likely to give you food poisoning …beware of Western Fast Food outlets and hotel buffets - food that has been out for over an hour or so. Thailand is not used to fridges/chill-serve etc. - fridges are not part of Thai cooking lore yet!
8. Always carry a pack of tissues - they don’t supply free tissues (if there is a vending machine at all!) – learn to use a “bum-gun” !!
9. Drink bottled water - not tap water. Even consider not brushing your teeth with tap water. Ice is usually safe in drinks and for anything else.
10. Crime - Use common safety sense – it is easy to relax too much here…when it comes to petty crime the rate is certainly lower than in places like the US/Europe etc…but every country has its share of con-men and psychopaths…..beware of fellow travellers! Don't behave like a shop window for thieves. Many Thai people legally own hand-guns.
11. Don’t be afraid to go to Pattaya – it is the tourist-sex capital of Thailand but they don’t jump out at single women and couples and it has good, cheap hotels, shopping and food. Not a bad place to start off for “All points East” - Koh Chang, Koh Samet, Khao Yai or Cambodia.
12. Bring an international driving permit – although most national ones are accepted by motorbike and car hire companies and anyone else who wants to hire you something….you may not be insured without an IDP! In Thailand they drive on the left - cars are Right-hand-drive. However driving is really only for the experienced. Be especially careful on a motorbike - Samui has the highest accident rate in Thailand.
13. Public transport is cheap. Planes, Trains, Buses, Minibuses, Taxis, from town to town. If you’re in a minibus or taxi, tell the driver you’ll tip him if he keeps the speed below 90/100 kph! National speed limit is 90kph (120 on motorways)
14. Around Bkk try to use meter taxis with the meter on...it’ll be cheaper than the tuk-tuks. Take a tuk-tuk once for the experience then use meter taxis. Don’t let the drivers take you out of your way...they’ll try to take you to some (relative’s) store where they get commission.
15. Medical - Firstly it is best when you can, to consult with a doctor at home who specialises in tropical medicine. - Check out a few “jabs & medications” - Hep “A” & “B” require a long course before leaving and are a pretty good idea –unless going to remote areas, most travellers don’t bother with the malarial medication – too heavy! You can get tetanus or rabies here if you’re bitten by a dog - it’s cheap. Many medicines (including antibiotics) can be bought over the counter without prescription and are cheap. A pharmacist will give you what he considers right for your symptoms but you can just as easily see a doctor at a local clinic for a couple of hundred baht. They usually speak a little English.
16. Check up on Thai manners and customs – this will earn you more respect from the locals. - Keep up some dress sense – how you dress in Thailand is quite important. Don’t go topless without checking out if it’s acceptable where you are – usually it’s frowned upon. You’ll notice that Thai women (even sex workers) are very modest in public –they usually swim fully clothed. You may at times be expected to take off your shoes – in certain parts of Temples, entering someone's home and even the occasional shop – just keep an eye out on what others are doing – there may even be a shoe rack.Table manners – Thais tend to eat from communal dishes in the centre of the table – don’t pour everything onto your own plate!
17. Don’t knock the royal family – even in jest.
18. Body language - Don’t point your feet at people – the body is seen as hierarchical and the feet are the “lowest” part and should not be waved about (this is like a “fingers up” sign). Before entering someone’s home you must take off your shoes; this also applies to some shops and businesses. - Never take a shoe off and wave it at someone – this could lead to violence.
It is also impolite to touch people on the head.
Extended arm with waving hand palm down means “come here” - palm up is considered impolite.
19. The “Wai” - It’s not really necessary to “Wai” people - the Thai greeting - as you’ll probably get it wrong. If they Wai you, you might try a wai back.
20. Remember, this is the Land of Smiles and you will find everything goes much better when you have a smile on your face - whatever the situation….
Here are 20 things to think about when visiting Thailand…
1. Bring a mobile (cell) phone. It should be “unlocked” - this can be done either at home or in Thailand - then buy a Thai SIM card for it on arrival, they’re cheap (approx. 50 baht) or even free and depending on cost include some credit already on them. International calls to Oz/UK are about 5 - 8baht per min…Phones are cheap to buy too – and unblocked. Use the cheap rate international dialling numbers – 004, 5, 6, 7 8 9 etc.
2. Money - Bring ATM cards: - debit credit etc. - check fees and tell your bank your are going abroad. - Take Travellers cheques best for back-up. Bring very little cash (Baht) – you almost always get a better rate of exchange here than any home country. You can change money on arriving at the airport... Banks and ATMs -(keep some cash in reserve in case of flight delays/diversions etc) BEWARE - there is now a 150 baht surcharge for all foreign cards used in most ATMs!
3. Booking – there is usually no need to book rooms before you come as there is plenty of cheap accommodation. Exceptions would be in high season if you want a particular place and maybe for your first one or two nights just to get orientated.
4. Bring very few clothes – they are cheap here and you’ll only bring stuff that is too warm anyway.
5. Very little luggage – this makes you more mobile if you need to be and less vulnerable to taxi touts and undesirable men….Before you go home you can buy any extra luggage (cheap) to take souvenirs etc.
6. Internet access is everywhere – even on the beach… you can get all your photos copied to CD - If you have a lap-top you can connect it there's wi-fi in many public places cafes malls etc.)...and many hotels have wifi broadband - fees very immensely
7. Food - Thai food is very unlikely to give you food poisoning but can contain more chillies than you ever thought possible….Street food is usually safe (and delicious!), check for numbers of customers and general looks of the stall. Western (“farang”) food is much more likely to give you food poisoning …beware of Western Fast Food outlets and hotel buffets - food that has been out for over an hour or so. Thailand is not used to fridges/chill-serve etc. - fridges are not part of Thai cooking lore yet!
8. Always carry a pack of tissues - they don’t supply free tissues (if there is a vending machine at all!) – learn to use a “bum-gun” !!
9. Drink bottled water - not tap water. Even consider not brushing your teeth with tap water. Ice is usually safe in drinks and for anything else.
10. Crime - Use common safety sense – it is easy to relax too much here…when it comes to petty crime the rate is certainly lower than in places like the US/Europe etc…but every country has its share of con-men and psychopaths…..beware of fellow travellers! Don't behave like a shop window for thieves. Many Thai people legally own hand-guns.
11. Don’t be afraid to go to Pattaya – it is the tourist-sex capital of Thailand but they don’t jump out at single women and couples and it has good, cheap hotels, shopping and food. Not a bad place to start off for “All points East” - Koh Chang, Koh Samet, Khao Yai or Cambodia.
12. Bring an international driving permit – although most national ones are accepted by motorbike and car hire companies and anyone else who wants to hire you something….you may not be insured without an IDP! In Thailand they drive on the left - cars are Right-hand-drive. However driving is really only for the experienced. Be especially careful on a motorbike - Samui has the highest accident rate in Thailand.
13. Public transport is cheap. Planes, Trains, Buses, Minibuses, Taxis, from town to town. If you’re in a minibus or taxi, tell the driver you’ll tip him if he keeps the speed below 90/100 kph! National speed limit is 90kph (120 on motorways)
14. Around Bkk try to use meter taxis with the meter on...it’ll be cheaper than the tuk-tuks. Take a tuk-tuk once for the experience then use meter taxis. Don’t let the drivers take you out of your way...they’ll try to take you to some (relative’s) store where they get commission.
15. Medical - Firstly it is best when you can, to consult with a doctor at home who specialises in tropical medicine. - Check out a few “jabs & medications” - Hep “A” & “B” require a long course before leaving and are a pretty good idea –unless going to remote areas, most travellers don’t bother with the malarial medication – too heavy! You can get tetanus or rabies here if you’re bitten by a dog - it’s cheap. Many medicines (including antibiotics) can be bought over the counter without prescription and are cheap. A pharmacist will give you what he considers right for your symptoms but you can just as easily see a doctor at a local clinic for a couple of hundred baht. They usually speak a little English.
16. Check up on Thai manners and customs – this will earn you more respect from the locals. - Keep up some dress sense – how you dress in Thailand is quite important. Don’t go topless without checking out if it’s acceptable where you are – usually it’s frowned upon. You’ll notice that Thai women (even sex workers) are very modest in public –they usually swim fully clothed. You may at times be expected to take off your shoes – in certain parts of Temples, entering someone's home and even the occasional shop – just keep an eye out on what others are doing – there may even be a shoe rack.Table manners – Thais tend to eat from communal dishes in the centre of the table – don’t pour everything onto your own plate!
17. Don’t knock the royal family – even in jest.
18. Body language - Don’t point your feet at people – the body is seen as hierarchical and the feet are the “lowest” part and should not be waved about (this is like a “fingers up” sign). Before entering someone’s home you must take off your shoes; this also applies to some shops and businesses. - Never take a shoe off and wave it at someone – this could lead to violence.
It is also impolite to touch people on the head.
Extended arm with waving hand palm down means “come here” - palm up is considered impolite.
19. The “Wai” - It’s not really necessary to “Wai” people - the Thai greeting - as you’ll probably get it wrong. If they Wai you, you might try a wai back.
20. Remember, this is the Land of Smiles and you will find everything goes much better when you have a smile on your face - whatever the situation….
Mar 27th, 2011, 08:20 AM
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" They are telling her to get a multiple non immigrant B Visa for 6 months but everything I read says they only issue 90 day Visas and you have to leave Thailand to get it renewed."
Usually nowadays - but not always - on production of the correct papers from the school, you will be issued with a Non immigrant "B" visa for 90 days. You can ask for 6 months or a year and see what they say.....
Anyhow - once in Thailand you, or rather the school then apply for the work permit - and then more or less at the same time immigration will extend your visa to cover the rest of your work period up to one year. After a year you have to renew.
So there are two lots of red tape -
First immigration and the visa - which must usually be obtained OUTSIDE Thailand and
Secondly the Work Permit, which is obtained form the dept. of labour.
The school should be well used to this and there should be no problems.
After arrival with a non-immigrant "B" you have to "sign on" at local immigration every 90 days - this is usually a 5 minute formality....the immigration office is located in Jomtien - it can get a bit busy at times, but colleagues can give advice about that.
a "multiple entry" stamp is extra - it allows you to go in and out of the country as often as you like - it cost around 2800 baht and can be obtained in Thailand...... you can also get a single exit stamp, at less cost.
(NB - if you EXIT the kingdom without a re-entry stamp, your visa and therefore work permit will be invalidated!!)
The trouble with visas and work permits is that there is a story for almost every one issued - some of the more dramatic ones are the result of sheer stupidity by the applicant or exaggeration. So long as the school is legit, your daughter should have no worries - it can take some time though.....but most people work as normal during this period.
in summary - so long as you arrive in Thailand with a NON-IMMIGRANT "B" visa it doesn't really matter how long it is valid for.
THe work permit is issued after arrival and the visa should be correspondingly extended.
Usually nowadays - but not always - on production of the correct papers from the school, you will be issued with a Non immigrant "B" visa for 90 days. You can ask for 6 months or a year and see what they say.....
Anyhow - once in Thailand you, or rather the school then apply for the work permit - and then more or less at the same time immigration will extend your visa to cover the rest of your work period up to one year. After a year you have to renew.
So there are two lots of red tape -
First immigration and the visa - which must usually be obtained OUTSIDE Thailand and
Secondly the Work Permit, which is obtained form the dept. of labour.
The school should be well used to this and there should be no problems.
After arrival with a non-immigrant "B" you have to "sign on" at local immigration every 90 days - this is usually a 5 minute formality....the immigration office is located in Jomtien - it can get a bit busy at times, but colleagues can give advice about that.
a "multiple entry" stamp is extra - it allows you to go in and out of the country as often as you like - it cost around 2800 baht and can be obtained in Thailand...... you can also get a single exit stamp, at less cost.
(NB - if you EXIT the kingdom without a re-entry stamp, your visa and therefore work permit will be invalidated!!)
The trouble with visas and work permits is that there is a story for almost every one issued - some of the more dramatic ones are the result of sheer stupidity by the applicant or exaggeration. So long as the school is legit, your daughter should have no worries - it can take some time though.....but most people work as normal during this period.
in summary - so long as you arrive in Thailand with a NON-IMMIGRANT "B" visa it doesn't really matter how long it is valid for.
THe work permit is issued after arrival and the visa should be correspondingly extended.
Mar 27th, 2011, 08:30 AM
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Jomtien is about 1.5 hours from Bkk. It is quite a good place for a "newbie" to start from
One has to assume that there are English speaking other staff at the school they are most likely to supportive of any newcomer.
Pattaya/Jomtien is a pretty large seaside conurbation with probably the largest and most densely populated English speaking expat community in Thailand - by quite a long way. By the time she leaves, your daughter may well be wishing she'd met more Thai speakers to learn he language from.
There is plenty to do, and shopping facilities etc are on a par with any normal European town.
Here is my "guide" to Pattaya - it's in need of an update, but in general it's still useable...
Here are a few thoughts on Pattaya for those who can’t make up their mind, or are worried about the sex industry and what it’s like for single women, couples, children etc,
Pattaya is a cheap and, in general, cheerful town On the Eastern seaboard of Thailand, the climate is great....just about the driest place on the Thai coast and the cost of living is cheap.....
The image most people have of a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah is really a result of careless and sensationalist reporting by various media around the world. It is true that there are many middle-aged men who have found they can afford to retire here often with a wife or girlfriend half their age – or at least “looks” half their age...who are we to judge? - ...but it is also a fun holiday resort and great value for money.
The demographics are changing – new markets have been found in Eastern Europe Russia and Asia..Korea, Taiwan China and India – the new economies are sending their people on holiday for the first time in many cases and Pattaya is ideal for them
There is also a lot to do if you are a family on holiday.
Visually, the beaches in Pattaya are not up to much compared to elsewhere in Thailand; it’s a very urban environment...rows of umbrellas and deck-chairs. Although people do swim, the sea is rather polluted…how much is unclear….they claim to have cleaned up the water a lot in the last few years and have marked of areas for swimmers. Neighbouring Jomtien beach about a 15 min “bus” ride away looks to be more swimmer-friendly but there is the occasional bout of untreated sewerage there from time to time. (This IS Thailand!). Cosy beach and Sugar beach between Pattaya and Jomtien offer less crowded or urban alternatives. Bear in mind that what is done to monitor pollution on any of the beaches throughout Thailand is not clear. Inevitably, wherever you are, ALL the main holiday beaches in Thailand are subject to pollution from time to time depending on season wind and tides.
All the same many people enjoy the beaches in and around Pattaya....At both Pattaya and Jomtien beaches you can hire all sorts of water sports stuff, and it’s all pretty cheap. However there are several reports of scams and intimidation involving hirers of jetskis etc. (take a photo of anything you hire before you use it)
All beaches have plenty of people selling drinks and snacks etc....have a fresh coconut and drink the liquid inside through a straw....very refreshing!
Off shore there are one or two islands with much nicer beaches, they are easily accessible for a day trip. If you go to Koh Laan, the main beach is really just a row of restaurants etc., but, it’s well worth hiring a moped and driving over to the other side of the island.....views from the top are great and there are some very quiet beaches there. Or simply walk along the coast for a bit to get away from the crowds.
Further down the coast towards Sattahip there are some quite reasonable beaches, Ban Sare or Ban Amphoe for example.
On the mainland, Pattaya offers a range of amusement parks, gardens, and theme parks and various sports.
There are numerous good quality golf courses, horse riding and motor sports, both karting and a car racing circuit. There are some small airfields nearby for fans of light aircraft too.
Nong Nooch Tropical Gardens although scandalised by the Beeb for their treatment of Elephants is worth a visit, just don’t support the Elephant rides. Elephant village is similarly not to be supported. Pattaya Park is a Water World amusement park that offers all the usual water rides plus a revolving restaurant and some hair-rising ways of getting up there and back down. Mini Siam is a miniature tour of Thailand - full of bus-loads of tourists with a MacDonald’s’ at the entrance. Million year old stone park has beautiful gardens - feed the 5ft long catfish! And cringe at the abysmal treatment of tigers and crocodiles. Further a field is Sri Racha tiger Zoo...to be avoided at all costs, and Kao Keow Open Zoo, a refreshing change from the usual callous way animals are treated in Thailand. There is also the “Underwater World” Aquarium on Sukumvit Rd. Any hotel or travel shop will arrange to take you there. For kids and the easily pleased, there’s also Ripley’s Believe It Or Not and Toys R us!
The Sanctuary of Truth is a rather unexpected attraction given the nature and reputation of Pattaya as a holiday destination. Built by a wealthy business family to celebrate the religions of the world, it is an enormous hand-carved wooden building built on a small promontory at Naklua the Northern end of Pattaya.
You’ll need a Sawngthaew or Motorcycle taxi to get there and it is rather dear to get in....current price unknown.
Work on the building seems to be continually in progress, and provides employment for many artisans and craftsmen from all over the country.
A walk around the site you’ll see carvers at work, inside the building are signs explaining each section of the building, and just marvel at the wonderful if rather crude carving.
The building itself is amazing but there are also some peripheral attractions that don’t seem so wonderful. One can rent a horse to ride around the site. At the time your correspondent was there one of the animals had got out of control and was being chased around the site by clearly untrained staff.
Another “attraction is the dolphin show. Here a small species of Dolphins (they are replaced from time to time!) -are put through there paces in a muddy pond, balancing balls and splashing the audience....it’s all rather embarrassing really.
However, all in all despite the rather second rate other attractions the site is well worth a visit.
Pattaya offers some of the best shopping outside Bangkok, and it is actually more accessible being sited in a much smaller area. New shopping malls are constantly being built –
The malls....several new malls have opened in the last 2 or 3 years - – Central Plaza is the latest to spring up between beach road and second – very large very “up-market” – lots of “brand-name” shops/restaurants etc etc – with a food hall and “hi-so” supermarket downstairs. Beach road and second road are the main shopping roads. The Avenue Complex on Pattaya Second Road, features the Villa supermarket for those craving a taste of home – at a price.
Still going strong despite the new competition is “ROYAL GARDEN PLAZA” - accessible from Beach Rd or Second Rd); they offer more quality goods and brand names. Royal Garden has an eatery with good views of the bay on the top floor.
Check out the older “MIKE’S” shopping malls – (2 on between beach rd and 2nd) good for clothing (Thai and branded) toys musical instruments and souvenirs; Mikes has a public swimming pool on the roof!
Other Malls around town include “Big C” on 2nd road, Tesco’s on Pattaya North (Nua), and Carrefour on Pattaya Central (Klang), and the new All these have a range of other shops and restaurants all under one air-conditioned roof. Tesco and Big C also have stores on Sukumvit Rd - the main road from Bangkok. - All have car parking
Along the beach stalls shops and arcades offer all the usual souvenir stuff and some things that might cause a few raised eyebrows.... (A Samurai Sword or replica gun?!?!). Lots of ersatz stuff and big brand copies, CDs and DVDs for 150 baht, computer programs.....
There are a lot of markets around Pattaya too. The most notable being the “soi Bua Khao” market on Tuesdays between that Soi and South Pattaya road, and the Saturday night market near Tesco on Threpasit road and Sukhumvit and for food, the fish market in Naklua or the nearby general market.
Eating out in Pattaya & Jomtien is a treat! There’s everything form every country and it’s all cheap! Even the up-market stuff is half what you’d pay in Europe. You can eat US, French, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Full English Breakfast, Italian, Belgian, Dutch, German....... The list is endless.....BUT – don't forget, this is Thailand......gastronomy is said to be the Thai National sport........
Thai food is wonderful.....everything from mild Chinese based noodles to hot and spicy Issan food....seafood, barbecue, Tom Yam soups...try it...you’ll love it.....if you want to spend a bit of Money try Ruen Thai on 2nd road or Sugar Hut on Thap Phraya Rd, the hill between Jomtien and Pattaya. Ruen Thai has great food from the all regions of Thailand and puts on an ethnic floor show music, dance or even demonstration Thai boxing! Sugar Hut is in fact a very beautiful resort, the restaurant is in a traditional Thai style wooden house. The atmosphere is amazing.... you remove your shoes on entering the dining area and the seating is either traditional low or for those of us who are less flexible there are “normal” height chairs and tables. Everything is teak and silk....just a pity the menu is so badly written and the food is a little on the bland side, but for a one off evening out it’s a must.
At the other end of the price range there are the small Thai restaurants and street stalls dotted all over town....many won’t have a menu in English so just walk in, sit down and look hungry.....let them bring you something and try and guess what it is you’re eating....for (a lot) less than $5 for 2 you can’t go wrong. A bowl of street noodles can be as little as 15 baht.
Just one phrase you might find useful....”Mai Pet” (one for the Geordies!) - this means “not hot”...it won’t mean no chillies but it might bring it down to a level where you can just about eat it! - “Mai Prik” is NO chillies at all.
And for the mindless, bootless and unhorsed, the culturally stagnant and the grossly obese, there is the usual plethora of fast food outlets....McD’s, KFC, and Burger King....how can people eat that stuff!?!?!? And WHY when you are in a land of gastronomic delights, would you? (My comfort food of choice is a big plate of liver and onions - mmmmmmm!)
The night life in Pattaya is legendary....although now the bars officially close at 1.00pm; this does not stop some places from turning music down and carrying on till the early hours of daylight. In fact closing times seem to have relax quite a lot bvetween the occasional purges organised by police or local govt.
There are discos (drinks can be very dear), clubs bars of sorts including the girlie places....
As with almost everywhere in Thailand, the sex trade ripples through Pattaya like veins through a stilton, and in a similar way gives the place its distinctive character. Aimed at both Thais and tourists it is quite unlike the red-light areas of Europe and America, it isn’t nearly as sleazy; mainly it consists of small open bars where (middle-aged) men sit drinking beer and talking to the “bar-girls”. If a tryst is arranged it will probably take place in one of the hundreds of hotels that permit “guests”. There is very little open display of lewdness as this is not approved of in Thailand.
The “Go-go Bars” are behind closed doors and have naked or semi naked girls pole dancing or rather holding a pole and swaying to music. You and your (young) family would not be admitted to a Go-go bar – (couples would).Some shows in the Go-Gos are very risque at times.
If you go to an open beer bar you will be treated as a perfectly ordinary customer and the girls will dote on your children. (They are mostly mothers themselves). ..............and as for the “seediness” how many men do you know go to Hamburg or Amsterdam and find a wife?
The southernmost end of beach road is pedestrianised after about 6.00 pm every evening and is called would you believe - “Walking Street”! This is probably the single most popular or visited part of Pattaya. With quite a few girlie bars etc , it's also the centre for most of the go-go bars, seafood restaurants built out over the sea, shops of all description, (there's even a Boots” pharmacy) - street entertainers, beggars, everybody goes there to see or been seen. There are plenty of open-fronted bars where you can just sit and watch the crowds go buy. It is also one of the dearer parts of town too. In the Sois off Walking street the mayhem continues ….. more go-gos, hotels, restaurants and some very good seafood street stalls too.
For something a little more “wholesome” - on 2nd road spend an hour or so at the newly relocated Malibu Bar....it’s a girl and lady-man show....a low budget affair, they make their own elaborate costumes and mime to well-known western songs. Every night they tread the boards from 8 till about 12.00 midnight...sometimes poor and amateurish but always entertaining...don't miss Tina Turner! This guy (now the owner?) is actually quite professional and very good indeed. He does a couple of performances every night and the place fills just to watch his act. Unfortunately sometimes he has to take time off (twice a night, 7 days a week, year in year out - who wouldn’t?!? and the act is performed by a less talented stand-in. All -in- all a great friendly atmosphere, lots of couples and even kids - and no smut!!!!....no admission charge, and they do food. - kind of lost some of it's atmosphere in the new location though.
Alcazar and in particular Tiffany's on second road are world famous for their glamorous and extravagant “Ladyboy” shows – they are really cabaret shows - perfectly OK for general viewing – featuring elaborate costumes, singing or miming rather than any sexual content.
If you are finding the heat a bit too much there are plenty of enclosed air-conditioned bars with a western theme, be they Irish, English, Belgian or whatever. Here you can eat “comfort food” and watch replays of your favourite old TV shows and live football.
If you’re tired out by all this...get a massage. Make sure it’s actually a massage establishment and not a “gentleman’s relaxation” facility! There are plenty of small boutiques you can go in and get a 1or 2 hour leg rub for about 150 to 400 baht and some beautiful Spas that will pamper you for the best part of a day for a few grand. (Thai baht that is!)
Pattaya remains one of the few seaside towns where anyone can do what they’ve always dreamed of.... But at an affordable price!
One has to assume that there are English speaking other staff at the school they are most likely to supportive of any newcomer.
Pattaya/Jomtien is a pretty large seaside conurbation with probably the largest and most densely populated English speaking expat community in Thailand - by quite a long way. By the time she leaves, your daughter may well be wishing she'd met more Thai speakers to learn he language from.
There is plenty to do, and shopping facilities etc are on a par with any normal European town.
Here is my "guide" to Pattaya - it's in need of an update, but in general it's still useable...
Here are a few thoughts on Pattaya for those who can’t make up their mind, or are worried about the sex industry and what it’s like for single women, couples, children etc,
Pattaya is a cheap and, in general, cheerful town On the Eastern seaboard of Thailand, the climate is great....just about the driest place on the Thai coast and the cost of living is cheap.....
The image most people have of a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah is really a result of careless and sensationalist reporting by various media around the world. It is true that there are many middle-aged men who have found they can afford to retire here often with a wife or girlfriend half their age – or at least “looks” half their age...who are we to judge? - ...but it is also a fun holiday resort and great value for money.
The demographics are changing – new markets have been found in Eastern Europe Russia and Asia..Korea, Taiwan China and India – the new economies are sending their people on holiday for the first time in many cases and Pattaya is ideal for them
There is also a lot to do if you are a family on holiday.
Visually, the beaches in Pattaya are not up to much compared to elsewhere in Thailand; it’s a very urban environment...rows of umbrellas and deck-chairs. Although people do swim, the sea is rather polluted…how much is unclear….they claim to have cleaned up the water a lot in the last few years and have marked of areas for swimmers. Neighbouring Jomtien beach about a 15 min “bus” ride away looks to be more swimmer-friendly but there is the occasional bout of untreated sewerage there from time to time. (This IS Thailand!). Cosy beach and Sugar beach between Pattaya and Jomtien offer less crowded or urban alternatives. Bear in mind that what is done to monitor pollution on any of the beaches throughout Thailand is not clear. Inevitably, wherever you are, ALL the main holiday beaches in Thailand are subject to pollution from time to time depending on season wind and tides.
All the same many people enjoy the beaches in and around Pattaya....At both Pattaya and Jomtien beaches you can hire all sorts of water sports stuff, and it’s all pretty cheap. However there are several reports of scams and intimidation involving hirers of jetskis etc. (take a photo of anything you hire before you use it)
All beaches have plenty of people selling drinks and snacks etc....have a fresh coconut and drink the liquid inside through a straw....very refreshing!
Off shore there are one or two islands with much nicer beaches, they are easily accessible for a day trip. If you go to Koh Laan, the main beach is really just a row of restaurants etc., but, it’s well worth hiring a moped and driving over to the other side of the island.....views from the top are great and there are some very quiet beaches there. Or simply walk along the coast for a bit to get away from the crowds.
Further down the coast towards Sattahip there are some quite reasonable beaches, Ban Sare or Ban Amphoe for example.
On the mainland, Pattaya offers a range of amusement parks, gardens, and theme parks and various sports.
There are numerous good quality golf courses, horse riding and motor sports, both karting and a car racing circuit. There are some small airfields nearby for fans of light aircraft too.
Nong Nooch Tropical Gardens although scandalised by the Beeb for their treatment of Elephants is worth a visit, just don’t support the Elephant rides. Elephant village is similarly not to be supported. Pattaya Park is a Water World amusement park that offers all the usual water rides plus a revolving restaurant and some hair-rising ways of getting up there and back down. Mini Siam is a miniature tour of Thailand - full of bus-loads of tourists with a MacDonald’s’ at the entrance. Million year old stone park has beautiful gardens - feed the 5ft long catfish! And cringe at the abysmal treatment of tigers and crocodiles. Further a field is Sri Racha tiger Zoo...to be avoided at all costs, and Kao Keow Open Zoo, a refreshing change from the usual callous way animals are treated in Thailand. There is also the “Underwater World” Aquarium on Sukumvit Rd. Any hotel or travel shop will arrange to take you there. For kids and the easily pleased, there’s also Ripley’s Believe It Or Not and Toys R us!
The Sanctuary of Truth is a rather unexpected attraction given the nature and reputation of Pattaya as a holiday destination. Built by a wealthy business family to celebrate the religions of the world, it is an enormous hand-carved wooden building built on a small promontory at Naklua the Northern end of Pattaya.
You’ll need a Sawngthaew or Motorcycle taxi to get there and it is rather dear to get in....current price unknown.
Work on the building seems to be continually in progress, and provides employment for many artisans and craftsmen from all over the country.
A walk around the site you’ll see carvers at work, inside the building are signs explaining each section of the building, and just marvel at the wonderful if rather crude carving.
The building itself is amazing but there are also some peripheral attractions that don’t seem so wonderful. One can rent a horse to ride around the site. At the time your correspondent was there one of the animals had got out of control and was being chased around the site by clearly untrained staff.
Another “attraction is the dolphin show. Here a small species of Dolphins (they are replaced from time to time!) -are put through there paces in a muddy pond, balancing balls and splashing the audience....it’s all rather embarrassing really.
However, all in all despite the rather second rate other attractions the site is well worth a visit.
Pattaya offers some of the best shopping outside Bangkok, and it is actually more accessible being sited in a much smaller area. New shopping malls are constantly being built –
The malls....several new malls have opened in the last 2 or 3 years - – Central Plaza is the latest to spring up between beach road and second – very large very “up-market” – lots of “brand-name” shops/restaurants etc etc – with a food hall and “hi-so” supermarket downstairs. Beach road and second road are the main shopping roads. The Avenue Complex on Pattaya Second Road, features the Villa supermarket for those craving a taste of home – at a price.
Still going strong despite the new competition is “ROYAL GARDEN PLAZA” - accessible from Beach Rd or Second Rd); they offer more quality goods and brand names. Royal Garden has an eatery with good views of the bay on the top floor.
Check out the older “MIKE’S” shopping malls – (2 on between beach rd and 2nd) good for clothing (Thai and branded) toys musical instruments and souvenirs; Mikes has a public swimming pool on the roof!
Other Malls around town include “Big C” on 2nd road, Tesco’s on Pattaya North (Nua), and Carrefour on Pattaya Central (Klang), and the new All these have a range of other shops and restaurants all under one air-conditioned roof. Tesco and Big C also have stores on Sukumvit Rd - the main road from Bangkok. - All have car parking
Along the beach stalls shops and arcades offer all the usual souvenir stuff and some things that might cause a few raised eyebrows.... (A Samurai Sword or replica gun?!?!). Lots of ersatz stuff and big brand copies, CDs and DVDs for 150 baht, computer programs.....
There are a lot of markets around Pattaya too. The most notable being the “soi Bua Khao” market on Tuesdays between that Soi and South Pattaya road, and the Saturday night market near Tesco on Threpasit road and Sukhumvit and for food, the fish market in Naklua or the nearby general market.
Eating out in Pattaya & Jomtien is a treat! There’s everything form every country and it’s all cheap! Even the up-market stuff is half what you’d pay in Europe. You can eat US, French, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Full English Breakfast, Italian, Belgian, Dutch, German....... The list is endless.....BUT – don't forget, this is Thailand......gastronomy is said to be the Thai National sport........
Thai food is wonderful.....everything from mild Chinese based noodles to hot and spicy Issan food....seafood, barbecue, Tom Yam soups...try it...you’ll love it.....if you want to spend a bit of Money try Ruen Thai on 2nd road or Sugar Hut on Thap Phraya Rd, the hill between Jomtien and Pattaya. Ruen Thai has great food from the all regions of Thailand and puts on an ethnic floor show music, dance or even demonstration Thai boxing! Sugar Hut is in fact a very beautiful resort, the restaurant is in a traditional Thai style wooden house. The atmosphere is amazing.... you remove your shoes on entering the dining area and the seating is either traditional low or for those of us who are less flexible there are “normal” height chairs and tables. Everything is teak and silk....just a pity the menu is so badly written and the food is a little on the bland side, but for a one off evening out it’s a must.
At the other end of the price range there are the small Thai restaurants and street stalls dotted all over town....many won’t have a menu in English so just walk in, sit down and look hungry.....let them bring you something and try and guess what it is you’re eating....for (a lot) less than $5 for 2 you can’t go wrong. A bowl of street noodles can be as little as 15 baht.
Just one phrase you might find useful....”Mai Pet” (one for the Geordies!) - this means “not hot”...it won’t mean no chillies but it might bring it down to a level where you can just about eat it! - “Mai Prik” is NO chillies at all.
And for the mindless, bootless and unhorsed, the culturally stagnant and the grossly obese, there is the usual plethora of fast food outlets....McD’s, KFC, and Burger King....how can people eat that stuff!?!?!? And WHY when you are in a land of gastronomic delights, would you? (My comfort food of choice is a big plate of liver and onions - mmmmmmm!)
The night life in Pattaya is legendary....although now the bars officially close at 1.00pm; this does not stop some places from turning music down and carrying on till the early hours of daylight. In fact closing times seem to have relax quite a lot bvetween the occasional purges organised by police or local govt.
There are discos (drinks can be very dear), clubs bars of sorts including the girlie places....
As with almost everywhere in Thailand, the sex trade ripples through Pattaya like veins through a stilton, and in a similar way gives the place its distinctive character. Aimed at both Thais and tourists it is quite unlike the red-light areas of Europe and America, it isn’t nearly as sleazy; mainly it consists of small open bars where (middle-aged) men sit drinking beer and talking to the “bar-girls”. If a tryst is arranged it will probably take place in one of the hundreds of hotels that permit “guests”. There is very little open display of lewdness as this is not approved of in Thailand.
The “Go-go Bars” are behind closed doors and have naked or semi naked girls pole dancing or rather holding a pole and swaying to music. You and your (young) family would not be admitted to a Go-go bar – (couples would).Some shows in the Go-Gos are very risque at times.
If you go to an open beer bar you will be treated as a perfectly ordinary customer and the girls will dote on your children. (They are mostly mothers themselves). ..............and as for the “seediness” how many men do you know go to Hamburg or Amsterdam and find a wife?
The southernmost end of beach road is pedestrianised after about 6.00 pm every evening and is called would you believe - “Walking Street”! This is probably the single most popular or visited part of Pattaya. With quite a few girlie bars etc , it's also the centre for most of the go-go bars, seafood restaurants built out over the sea, shops of all description, (there's even a Boots” pharmacy) - street entertainers, beggars, everybody goes there to see or been seen. There are plenty of open-fronted bars where you can just sit and watch the crowds go buy. It is also one of the dearer parts of town too. In the Sois off Walking street the mayhem continues ….. more go-gos, hotels, restaurants and some very good seafood street stalls too.
For something a little more “wholesome” - on 2nd road spend an hour or so at the newly relocated Malibu Bar....it’s a girl and lady-man show....a low budget affair, they make their own elaborate costumes and mime to well-known western songs. Every night they tread the boards from 8 till about 12.00 midnight...sometimes poor and amateurish but always entertaining...don't miss Tina Turner! This guy (now the owner?) is actually quite professional and very good indeed. He does a couple of performances every night and the place fills just to watch his act. Unfortunately sometimes he has to take time off (twice a night, 7 days a week, year in year out - who wouldn’t?!? and the act is performed by a less talented stand-in. All -in- all a great friendly atmosphere, lots of couples and even kids - and no smut!!!!....no admission charge, and they do food. - kind of lost some of it's atmosphere in the new location though.
Alcazar and in particular Tiffany's on second road are world famous for their glamorous and extravagant “Ladyboy” shows – they are really cabaret shows - perfectly OK for general viewing – featuring elaborate costumes, singing or miming rather than any sexual content.
If you are finding the heat a bit too much there are plenty of enclosed air-conditioned bars with a western theme, be they Irish, English, Belgian or whatever. Here you can eat “comfort food” and watch replays of your favourite old TV shows and live football.
If you’re tired out by all this...get a massage. Make sure it’s actually a massage establishment and not a “gentleman’s relaxation” facility! There are plenty of small boutiques you can go in and get a 1or 2 hour leg rub for about 150 to 400 baht and some beautiful Spas that will pamper you for the best part of a day for a few grand. (Thai baht that is!)
Pattaya remains one of the few seaside towns where anyone can do what they’ve always dreamed of.... But at an affordable price!
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lauramsgarden
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