Craig

As some of you know we have been unable to get the flights we need for a Papua New Guinea tour (without extending our time off for several days) so...

We now have business class seats Hartford to Hanoi for a 15 day trip next April. If we exclude our time in the air and 1-1/2 days in Bangkok, we are left with 11 days on the ground in Vietnam.

We want to focus on northern and perhaps central Vietnam. We will definitely want to spend time in Sapa to visit villages and markets and photograph the hilltribe people there. We would probably also do a 2 day/1 night cruise on Halong Bay (Ginger or Jasmine Junk).

I know we can't do it all without feeling rushed. Of the following how would you alot your time?
Hanoi
Sapa
Halong Bay
Hue
Hoi An
If visiting Hue/Hoi An we would fly and would not mind going early or leaving late to extend our time - there are early morning and late evening flights every day between the two.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Kathie

Craig, I'm so sorry that PNG has not worked out for you. I was really looking forward to that trip report!

I can really only speak from experience about the Hanoi portion of the trip. We really enjoyed Hanoi, there is much to see and do. We spent a week there with one day trip to the Perfume Pagoda, and found plenty to keep us occupied. We didn't go to either Halong Bay or Sapa, as we were there in November - not the best time for either of those places. I read very mixed reviews of Sapa. I think the trick is to get farther away from Sapa to really get an experience of the tribal cultures.

I really wanted to go to Hue/Hoi An (Hue more than Hoi An), but we were traveling at a time of the year when they often have flooding in that area, so we opted for elsewhere.

Have a great trip!

ekscrunchy

Between Hue and Hoi An you will want to go overland via the Hai Van pass.

Craig

ekscrunchy - well that's fine but will I have time to do that with the time allotted and why?

ekscrunchy

Craig I did not go to Sapa so cannot comment on that. If you DO have the time, you can fly from Hanoi to Danang, transfer to Hoi An and spend even one night, and then do the drive to Hue, spending two nights there before flying to your departure point..

I mentioned the pass because the scenery is quite spectacular and I found it interesting, although in January the weather was foggy and not ideal.. If you get an early start, you can still finish the drive by late morning..so it could be an option that might not eat up much more time than the flight between the two places..

I admit, though, when I first responded, I did not see that you had only 11 days, which to me would be quite a rush to include all of the places you mention..

thursdaysd

If you're planing to go to Sapa and to Halong Bay I wouldn't think you have time for Hue/Hoi An - Hanoi is worth several days on its own. However, if you do go south I would spend more time in Hue unless you're a shopper. Do plan to visit My Son on a half day tour from Hoi An, and try to make time for the Champa Museum in Danang.

dogster

Awwww, I'm sorry PNG didn't work out too. I wanted to hear about that. Mmmm. Vietnam doesn't seem nearly as OUT THERE.

I went on Bhaya Cruise to Halong Bay in Oct last year.. They were great. New company, French run [I think]Check them out.
www.bhayacruises.com

IMHO if you're gonna do the Halong Bay thing [not my favorite thing in Vietnam] then stay 2 nights on your boat and DO it properly. Don't just whizz down and whizz back. It ain't that stunning - and the one day trip, which I've also done, is a bloody MISERY.

ekscrunchy

Yes, with only 11 days I am not even sure I would include Halong Bay... Especially if you have seen that type of karst scenery in southern Thailand, for example..

Craig

Dogster - Yeh, being OUT THERE is big on our list but we are not retired and thus have only so much time to do our thing. If Halong Bay is bloody misery then should we bother as opposed the other choices (and what are they???) or would two days be better with more time in other northern areas as well? Will check into the Byaya Cruise as I kind of admire your approach to travel.

Craig

So ekscrunchy, dogster please comment on Hoi An and Hue as alternatives. Thanks.

Craig

Let me ask this in another way - say if we spent extra days in Sapa doing excursions and 3 days in Halong Bay and extra time in Hanoi would we have a productive trip - ie lots of great photos, interaction with locals etc?

dogster

lol - well Craig, I wouldn't be going to Vietnam in the first place. Heh. But I've been there twice so I KNOW that it's kinda boring [In comparison to... well, everywhere else in Asia. Lol.]

BUT diff'rent strokes...

And yup, I do understand you don't have my luxury of time - but I'm tremedously impressed how far you get and how much you do in the time available.

Hanoi is my biggest buzz in Vietnam - by far. There's a lot to discover in Hanoi - lotta great food etc. Metropole, despite how much I hate them, is probably your best choice for accom. New wing rooms are very nice indeed, old wing rooms are - well, old. Tarted up. You know the thing. Raffles.

Really, as I'm 58 and EXACTLY of the Vietnam War generation [and was very nearly conscripted et al]I found Vietnam to be a whole Apocalypse Now of baggage dumping as I RID myself once and for all, of all that accumulated psychic disturbance I'd been carrying around with me since then. I wonder if that makes any sense at all? So it was absolutely worth going for that alone.

So Vietnam, for me, was nothing to do with what Vietnam will be - for you. But I still thought it was kinda dull. But the Dogster has been around - maybe TOO much.

Kristina

Craig-
I'm very interested in the responses you get to your query. I have hoping to go to Vietnam next summer for about the same period of time, also trying to squeeze a few days in BKK or with the PLF in Cambodia too.

Lucky you getting those business class seats. The reason we are not going this summer is because I could not find any available. Which airline are you flying?

So, I've been giving your question a lot of thought as it is my question too. I think to try and fit in all those locations is too much moving around. I like your last suggestion of just Hanoi, Sapa, and Halong Bay (though I wonder if 3 days there is "too much&quot

I am torn about Halong Bay. On one hand, it sounds like it has the potential to be lovely, and a bit of forced restfulness (this is a vacation!), but on the other hand as ekscrunchy said, I have seen that type of scenery in Thailand before. Wondering if others who have done both can comment on this?

Will you be in BKK at the beginning or end of the trip? I ask because if it's at the start, then you may be better adjusted by the time you reach Hanoi, if not, then you will have to allow for jet lag and such.

dogster

In brief: yup.
Remember, you ain't the first tourists in Vietnam. Australians have been there in their mega-millions. The longer you stay in one place the more chance you have of getting out of that one/two day fly-in/fly-out zone. Sapa will have been infested with a million Craig and Jeane's way before you get there - so yer 'genuine, never before seen, tourist/locals interaction' won't really occur unless you invest your time. Same with Hanoi, Halong Bay.

Halong is just a cool-out zone. The only people you'll meet there are other tourists or people who live OFF tourists. Pretty scenery if it isn't fogged out - which it ALWAYS is - check back in trip reports - they'll always say 'oh, damn, it was overcast. '

But it's pretty just the same to cruise thru and get in a canoe and do that canoe thing.

rhkkmk

i found halong bay only so so....the scenery is nice but gets old real quickly....we spent the full day there and that was PLENTY....worth doing but only if you are not giving up other things and it is quite a ride from hanoi

Kathie

Craig, my take on it is, yes, if you keep your trip to the north with a combinations of Hanoi, Sapa and Halong you'll have plenty to do/see/experience. For me, the longer I stay in a place, the more likely I am to have to unplanned experiences that really make a trip.

By the way, we did not stay at the Metropole. I can't remember why now, but it was a conscious decision, even though the Metropole is the most luxe place in Hanoi. Instead we stayed at the DeSyloia, a small boutique hotel. We very much enjoyed the place. We had a suite which cost about US$100 at the time. I recently checked for someone and the prices have gone up considerably. The hotel has an excellent restaurant, Cau Cau. It's a little way away from the lake, but it is certainly walkable if you'd like. The staff were wonderful and very helpful. They arranged a car and driver for us when we went to the Perfume Pagoda.

Lyndie

Hi Craig-PNG would have been remarkable and is on our list for 2010 if we survive till then. Easier to get to from Oz than USA.

Have to tell you that Sapa is a tad too touristy and the hilltribe people are quite "tourist weary"! Kinda like the ones you see in Phuket & Koh Samui. Complete waste of valuable time if you've only got 11 days.

Sapa is not as interesting as Dalat. Do a bit of research on the area around Hue, Dalat etc. Hue, is a remarkable place.

The Bay at Halong was dirty & imho does not deserve it's World Heritage classification. Far more beautiful places to see! Have you checked out Lonely Planet's website. We're not all cheapskates since Bruno & I shared a large lottery win! Good luck!

ekscrunchy

Craig:

I think that my opinions are colored by the gray and drizzly weather I had everywhere in Vietnam north of Saigon. But here goes: Hoi An is an adorable town with truly wonderful architecture. The sight of the local white-ao-dai-clad schoolgirls on their bikes heading for classes, along the narrow lanes lines hemmed in by the tile-roofed pastel-painted houses, makes great memory material.

BUT: Hoi An is crawling with tourists. Most street-front spaces in the central area is dedicated to tourist-oriented retail or eateries. The central food market is most interesting, but you will see a larger and more frenetic one in Hanoi. The only locals you will likely meet are in the tourist trade in one form or another, including the many who will try to entice you into their shops to be fitted for "ready in one day" clothing.

I think it would be a wonderful place to relax for a few days if you had a hotel with pool and could foray into town to eat and do some light shopping. There are also a few house museums of moderate interest. I liked Hoi An very much, except for the weather, and was glad that I went. BUT you do not have the luxury of so much time, so I will go out on a limb here and say that you can skip Hoi An.

Hue, however, might be the one foray other than Sapa that you should take. Because of poor weather, I did not amble around too much, but the town looked very pleasant for this activity. There is a good concentration of "sights" and also the possibility of wandering around, eating the local foods, and I would think, meeting some locals on your wanderings along the river or in the town. So what about making this your last stop before heading home? I would spend two nights, if you could squeeze them in. But one issue might be that I understand that the weather is almost always rainy.

OR: As I said, I did not get to Sapa. But there are alternatives to Sapa if you want to see hill tribes. Read Femi's report, as she mentions a stay in another village with a bustling local market.

You might want to investigate the towns of Cao Bang and Can Cau and the Quan Ba district (I believe there is also karst scenery here) for hilltribe villages and markets that might be less overrun with tourists than Sapa. I know nothing about these other than what I've read in a few guidebooks.

I think that if I were in your shoes, I would limit myself to Hanoi and a trip to one of the NW areas that are a little off map for foreign tourists...maybe a road trip of 4 days beginning in Hanoi. I think this would give you your best chance of really getting out and seeing something off the well-trodden tourist path. It will not be PNG, but it might be very interesting... You would need to do this overland, I believe but a good agency can put together a side trip like this by 4-wheel drive.

So: 5 nights Hanoi, 4 nights NW, and then you could even fit in Hue.

FromDC

So of course this post makes me want to rethink the itinerary I just settled on a few days ago re: Halong Bay. Haven't seen the karst scenary in Thailand and DH really loves the idea of going there, but only for an overnight.
BTW, I spent 2 hours on the phone with someone from USAir yesterday who finally found 2 biz class tickets for me. This was after the Thai Air flight was cancelled and I had been calling back on a regular basis to see if anything opened up for Oct/Nov. So I wouldn't give up on PNG, you just need to get the right person on the phone who is willing to spend the time with you - -I know this isn't easy since I have had people say to me after 5 minutes "nothing" and others who were willing to take lots more time. Going in and out of Dulles (not JFK, even better for us) thru Seoul on the way and thru Narita on the return.

ekscrunchy

Take a look at these, from Cao Bang district; notice karst formations:




http://www.terragalleria.com/vietnam....cao-bang.html