SLICMama

Hello,
My son's China visa is limited to 60 days but he will be there for 67 days The visa agency says he should go to Hong Kong, Taiwan or other country for a weekend, which will then renew the visa for another 60 days. I hear that a train to Shenzen and then crossing to Hong Kong is cheapest. Any advice out there on exactly how to do this? Thanks!

rkkwan

Where in China will he be? That would determine the cheapest way to do it.

rkkwan

Okay, sounds like he'll be in Shanghai, it's a pretty long way to go to by train to Hong Kong. Check all flights from Shanghai (both airports) to Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, South Korea or even Thailand.

SLICMama

Thanks--yes he will be in Shanghai.

CanadaChinaTraveller

Check Sprint airlines, they have very cheap flights.
I have done this several times. you only need to cross the border and come back. I have stayed in HK just a few minutes in some cases.
How come his visa is only 60 days? Work visas do not have such limits.

CanadaChinaTraveller

Sounds like he is working on a tourist visa. Working illegally? Good luck to him. If he gets caught, he may have to fly to HK sooner than 60 days and won't return to China for a very long time.

Kathie

Your son needs a different kind of visa if he is working/doing an internship. The company he is working for should take care of this. If they will not, I'd be very suspicious of them and would reconsider accepting the internship. I know I already said this about the lack of assistance with housing, but that was a matter of convenience, this is a legality. It is illegal to work (even an internship or volunteer work) on a tourist visa.

CanadaChinaTraveller

In the news today: http://shanghaiist.com/2016/06/16/si..._crackdown.php

SLICMama

He is an unpaid student on a university research grant. I didn't think I needed to explain all that to the Fodor's police so I used the shorthand that I thought Anglophones would understand. Never mind, I will seek my information elsewhere.

CanadaChinaTraveller

Don't shoot the messenger. We are just warning you. You can't work in China without a work visa and even volunteering for free is still considered work. We are just warning you of the consequences of illegal work, something important especially when there is a campaign going on to track down the foreigners breaking this law.

lcuy

I would think after all the help everyone has given to you that you would simply say "thank you " for this warning.

I don't think I'd want to have one of my kids arrested, fines, and tossed in a Chinese jail.

jobin

IMO,
if he's at the Univ, mostly on the campus, with the other students: 98% problem free.

lcuy

Well, slickmama has left fodor's. She didn't like all the Anglophones giving free advice, I guess.

Kathie

She didn't like our answers - that her son was doing something illegal that could land hm in trouble - so left to find people who knew less and would tell her everything would be fine.

jobin

Come on Kathie. Did you ever work in China, either with a work visa or without? Exactly what first hand info do you have? Or do you offer only a reiteration of US govt website news?

"Shanghai is China's most populous city and the largest city proper in the entire world.
Shanghai's population in 2016 is estimated to be just over 24 million.

Shanghai also has over 150,000 officially registered foreigners, including approximately 31,500 Japanese, 21,000 Americans, and 20,700 Koreans.

These numbers are based on official figures, so the real number of foreign citizens in the city is probably much higher." These data from World Pop Review

So, considering that the 'real number' of Americans is greater than 21K, let's say it's 30K, amongst 24,000,000. Does anyone really expect one single male student to be identified during a summer school stay (amongst thousands of various other white aliens, many hanging out at Fudan U), prosecuted as a criminal, fined and deported? Get real Kathie and quit scaremongering.

Kathie

Jobin, I have not worked in China, but I certainly have friends who have. They were always very careful to follow the law to the letter in matters of their visas. It seemed everyone knew of someone who had gotten into trouble for visa issues. I would expect that the OP's son would only run into trouble as he left China. People who work on tourist visas or overstay are subject to fines (I doubt that they would arrest him) and will be denied visas to China in the future. Given that this young man is fluent in Mandarin, I expect he would want to return to China in the future.

I have no interest in scare-mongering but I am well aware that decisions made at this point in life have repercussions far beyond what the youngster anticipates. I think we would be negligent to say to the OP that everything will be fine or to deny the seriousness of working on a tourist visa.

CanadaChinaTraveller

@Jobin - do you think that the authorities are just roaming the streets looking for illegal workers? The way it works is having regular campaigns where they will go where they will find a higher number numbers of foreigners. For example, going to certain bars, blocking all exits and checking everybody. Another is to visit places of employments that are known to have foreigners and checking everybody. They used another technique recently when they offered cash incentives to Chinese who would report "suspicious" foreigners. Ever noticed that most residential building have some kind of security guy. He knows everyone in the building and see people going in and out all day and is the key person in reporting those "suspicious" foreigners. And since the OP's son is staying in an AirBnB place, I suspect that the person renting out the place is probably not going to register him in the first place.
But a common way for the foreigners to get caught is going out to party, having too much to drink and causing trouble. Then they are checked by police.
And, yes, I lived in China a few years. Most people know someone who was put on the next plane after being given barely one hour to pick up his personal stuff at his apartment. It happens all the time.
What is wrong with doing things legally?

kvchina

I have lived and worked (legally) in China, for quite a number of years. I have assisted other foreigners in getting appropriate visas and staying on the right side of Chinese law....whatever that happened to be at the time. I have also advised foreigners (who asked) when their proposed course of action could bring trouble. My information comes from field experience, not from the US gov't website. One doesn't need to "scaremonger" but to ignore the current reality in China and blue-sky everything, is foolish.

There are really two questions on the issue: What is the (current) law? and How rigorously is the law now enforced? The 2013 change in Immigration/visa regulations, and the existing government's enforcement at the central, provincial, and local levels, unfortunately no longer favor casually working and particularly not working on tourist visas. The 2013 law also leaves foreigner "internships" in a gray area, with no specific interpretations forthcoming. But clearly, with the Chinese economy not as robust as in previous years, the intent is to do everything possible to discourage internships by (young) foreigners.

From the little information the OP gave us, it does appear that the son is being asked to intern on a tourist visa, as I'm guessing he's unlikely to have a business visa. Either way, an L or an M are specifically not appropriate for internship, even unpaid. So he's definitely on the wrong side of the law. Enforcement would depend mostly on the clout of the organization/university he is interning with. Interning for a major player may lessen the risk, but it does pose an interesting question--if the university has clout to begin with, why not just dole out the paperwork to get him a legal visa. He could have been issued a short-term X with internship privileges. This is pretty simple for a public (state-sponsored) institution. Them not being willing to do this is a red flag--meaning maybe they aren't on the good side of the local PSB and thus the risk for the son is increased.

Generally, Chinese police don't go around doing "papers please" to foreigners except under very unusual and specific circumstances. The most common way a foreigner is caught out working illegally is in a raid (i.e. on private English language schools) or being turned in/reported. I doubt if the OP has much risk on the former, but there is some on the latter. A Chinese student could find out he's on a tourist visa and report to the PSB. As mentioned above, a local guard or resident at his housing location could report him to the local police station to check his lodging registration...at which point his visa status and activities would be probed.

The original topic of the thread has gone off-track but I believe the OP got the critical information before she left in a huff. This brings me to a final observation: What the heck was she doing on this forum anyway? I take a very dim view of helicopter mothers who are doing the legwork for what should be the son's effort and responsibility. The son is almost certainly at least 20 years old, has been to China, speaks Mandarin. He should be able to research and make his own arrangements, and find out the answers to questions. The thread about Shanghai housing is another case in point. Where's the traveler/intern himself in all this? It's one thing for a parent to seek information on behalf of a minor child, but anybody old enough to get his own passport and travel is old enough to tell Mom that he's going to shoulder the burden of preparation. Accordingly, my current policy on forums is to not be an Enabler to these Helicopter Moms of adult children. Which is why I didn't respond to the OP in the first place, but this discussion on visa/legalities is now between us.

rkkwan

Very simple and possible situation:

OP's kid coming back into China second time, few days after staying for almost 60 days and out of country for a weekend. They ask "What have you been doing in China for those 55 days"? "What places have you visited"? "How long will you stay here this time"? "Where are you staying tonite"? "How much money did you spend during those 55 days and how much money you have left"? etc.

Chances are they won't ask and say the percentage is 85%. So, good chance, right? But what happens for the remaining 15%? One needs to have good answers for those questions.

jobin

AirB&B? Where did you read that? Quit making things up. And as far as in/out of China; cross out of the mainland, then walk back in. Try HK, Seoul, UlaanBaator (a bit far) but the idea is the same. Probably the student has a 10 year tourist visa, multiple entry with 60 days per entry. He is fully permitted to walk out on day 59, then walk right back in, no questions asked about the past or the future.
On these univ campus, white kids are crawling all over, surrounded (often) by fellow chinese students NONE of whom wish to report anything to the mostly hated police. If you think all members of chinese society like or want the CCP to rule their lives, U a dreamer. Secret agents inspecting tenants? Go back to the cold war.

Those old folks watching the door of the apartment building are there to keep them away from the city park, where idlers mingle and talk about the creepy government. So the govt gives them a tiny job and little red ribbon. Good dog.