China Travel warnings

Old Jan 15th, 2019, 08:57 AM
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,952
CandaChinatraveller.. I do have some advice for any Canadian wishing to visit China now,.. read the Travel Warning just released to Canadians today by our government.

China is playing dirty.. we did not do a thing wrong but honor our agreement with the States.. now China is all bent out of shape and as a Canadian I wouldnt set foot there now even if I was interested in doing so..

Now CanadaChinatraveler .. explain to me why China is all up in arms over THIS one arrest.. ? It doesn't make any sense at all..
justineparis is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2019, 05:34 PM
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 476
"we did not do a thing wrong"
One of the basic issues with such thinking is that the Western world has a very different idea of right/wrong when compared to china.

In the west, the individual person has a distinct place in the world, esp in legal considerations, such as innocent till proven guilty by one's peers. And the notion that everyman can be judged by the law.

These concepts have no place in china. There, all matters of law belong to the state apparatus, the CCP, and nothing of the law concerns the private person. In china, more than a billion (1,000,000,000) persons are totally controlled by an elite, self-chosen few. Those elite decide what is "right and what is wrong".

IMO, the basic chinese mechanism of dealing with western/chinese conundrums is LIE AND DENY, LIE AND DENY, LIE AND DENY.

After all, the Great Helmsman, Ch. Mao, told his people " if i peek at your exam paper and write your answer on my page, and your answer is correct, how can my answer be wrong?"
jobin is offline  
Old Jan 15th, 2019, 07:33 PM
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,297
One might argue that law is written for and by the elite in Western countries also. I donít think China has a monopoly on that. Also, ďlie and denyĒ sounds very familiar. Probably because Iíve been following the news on the shut down.

thanks, Kja. I try to avoid tours and taxi drivers in most countries anyway lol.
marvelousmouse is online now  
Old Jan 16th, 2019, 07:29 AM
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 401
One might argue that law is written for and by the elite in Western countries also.. I don’t think China has a monopoly on that.
One might, but only if one were fond of the tu quoque fallacy and had also failed to notice that in the West, however flawed the system in some countries, lawmakers are elected and may be removed from office either at the ballot box or by an independent judiciary.

The scale and longevity of the dictatorship in China and its repression are unparalleled elsewhere. But even if there were other countries so toweringly awful on such a large scale to point that out would be of no logical relevance, nor excuse nor mitigate the appalling situation in China.

To revert to the topic of this forum, if one is going to choose countries to avoid on political grounds then China should probably be the first to be struck off the list of holiday destinations. Unfortunately the list of countries it would be possible to visit with an entirely clear conscience would be woefully short.

However, while back in the 80s it could be argued that even the most politically correct budget traveller's hard currency spending was contributing to keeping the Party in power, the scale of the modern Chinese economy makes the input from foreign tourism negligible (even compared to the dozens of times larger contribution from domestic tourism). As a point of principle it might be best not to go, but those who nevertheless want to travel tend to suggest that it's an education to do so. But the Chinese tourism industry is part of the same system as the media and education, designed to mislead and provide only pro-Party messages, and the independent traveller, usually lacking all communication skills, is anyway not on a social science trip but a holiday. Real education would involve communicating with hutong residents, the 'ant tribes' in Beijing satellite communities, rural peasants, Xinjiang, and so on, not simply looking out of train windows. A far better education is to be had by reading reliable media and academic commentators at home.

In short, it's complicated (not that those against travel will regard that as an excuse). But pointing out that other places are also nasty is a remark of no relevance at all.
temppeternh is offline  
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