unjust

I know what you're thinking, I hate these types of questions too. Nevertheless, I am asking for your help in deciding which of these wonderful countries to choose to visit for 2 weeks (I didn't think a 2 week combined trip would be close to enough time). Looking for a little adventure, interesting culture/sites to see and some time for relaxation. I'm sure I could find those in either country, so based on your experience, in either or both countries, which would you recommend? Many thanks.

PeterN_H

If sites are important to you, then you find more, and of more grandeur, to see in China--Vietnam has nothing on the scale of the Great Wall or the Forbidden City.<BR><BR>Culture is a difficult to define quality, but as you've put it together with sites, let's take it as meaning something you can go and see, in which case there's greater sprawl and variety again. China is just on a much larger scale.<BR><BR>But China would be the last place I'd choose for relaxation. It's just too crowded, noisy, and unreasonable a place in which to relax. For that, even if I were in a city centre in either case, I'd choose a shady Hanoi cafe over anything comparable in Beijing any day. Vietnam has credible beaches, the countryside is generally quiet, and there's vastly less pollution.<BR><BR>This vague advice will perhaps be a little helpful if you decide in where your priorities lie.<BR><BR>Actually, although two weeks isn't much, there is a way to experience both these countries. Start with a few days in Beijing. Fly to Kunming and spend a few days in and around Dali and Yunnan villages. Take the train from Kunming to Hanoi, and spend a few days there. Something like four days Beijing, four days Dali, and three days Hanoi, with the rest for travelling would work. Alternatively you could spend a week in Beijing and then take the train all the way to Hanoi (it only runs once a week). Or, start in Beijing, then fly or take a train to Guilin. The Beijing to Hanoi train passes through Guilin, and you could board it there. (I think the route via Kunming would be best, however.)<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

unjust

Peter - you seem to be one of the most knowledgeable and helpful participants in this forum. Can you post your email address? I have a couple follow-up questions I'd like to ask you.<BR><BR>Thanks.

PeterN_H

I think public discussion is better for all concerned. Others may know more than I do, and/or have different views.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

marigoing

my 2 cents, w/ the caveat that i've never set foot in china. lived in tokyo 3 years and saigon 4 years and traveled to various other asian countries, but not china.<BR><BR>however, living in hawaii as i do, it seems that every other person's parents or grandparents have been to china, which says 2 things. <BR><BR>1: people here at least don't seem to consider this an adventure destination. my own parents, now in their 70s (and not chinese), have been 3 times, as have all my aunties and uncles. apparently tourism infrastructure has developed to the point that it's easy for senior citizens to get around.<BR><BR>2: repeat visitors like my folks come back talking abt increasing development and crowds. some sites they describe as overrun w/ tourists, like parts of the great wall, ming tombs, cruises along the yangtze river. in some cases fmr outposts have become small cities. in large cities, dining in western-style food courts was apparently a common option.<BR><BR>vietnam, on the other hand, is still relatively undeveloped. that's slowly changing. my first visit in 1995, when i traveled solo from hanoi to saigon over 2 weeks by plane, train, bus, motorbike, i was often the only foreigner anywhere. now cruises w/ foreign tourists have begun making day stops. <BR><BR>unless you opt to fly everywhere and be met by guides, i can almost guarantee an 'adventure' vacation. my first visit there, i found a world so enigmatic and upside-down, so entirely the opposite of mundane, that i abandoned a career and moved there. and incidentally, in the process found small clusters of other americans, australians, japanese, french and assorted other expats who felt and had done the same.

Andrea_expat

I had the EXACT same thoughts as Peter when I first read your post - China is interesting &amp; can provide adventure, but is the last place I'd pick for relaxing. I also agree that you'd have enough time to hit the highlights in China and then head to Vietnam for some relaxation.<BR><BR>It also depends on what you mean by adventure. If you're talking about outdoor type adventures (bicycling, kayacking etc.), Vietnam's tourist industry has much more of that to offer.<BR><BR>But lots of people come to China for adventure! For inspiration, a recent issue of National Geographic has a great article about a Westerner who wanted to trace the path of the Great Wall and ventured on his own to very remote villages.<BR><BR>While it is true that China has developed a tourism infrastructure that makes group travel relatively easy for elderly people, that's not how I've ever recommended anyone come to China! You'll have a much more authentic - and adventurous - time if you travel independently.<BR><BR>China is developing quickly, and it's certainly possible to eat at KFC in almost every major city, but it's still an amazingly different, exciting, surprizing place.<BR><BR>I live in the largest and arguably most foreign-influenced city, Shanghai, and EVERY DAY people do a double take when they see me on the street, motion to their friends to look at the foreigner, say &quot;Laowai!&quot; (foreigner) in astonishment, and bring their small children up to me to say &quot;Hello&quot;. The clash between new and old is evident everywhere you look (with less new and more old the smaller the city you visit). I once saw workers putting the finishing touches on the landscaping of a brand new glass skyscraper - they were squatting on the ground, ladling cement out of a bucket with a paper cup tied to a stick with string.<BR><BR>In the neighborhood I live in, in the center of town, the old people still wear Mao jackets and spend all day on the sidewalks playing Mah Jong. There's an adventure around every corner!<BR><BR>The good news is that you can't go wrong - both countries are fascinating and you're sure to have a great time wherever you go!

unjust

Great feedback from all of you. Thanks. Any input on a two week-ish itinerary of a combo China/Vietnam trip would be much appreciated. I would try to fly between major cities to optimize my time. <BR><BR>In China, I think Beijing is a must. Beyond that, not sure which, if any, of these cities would make sense: Dali, Kunming, Lijiang, Xian, Dazu, Chongqing, Guilin, Chengdu, Leshan?? For guidance, we like to see/explore structures and landscape. Any thoughts on a river cruise? Visit Tibet?<BR><BR>I would probably allocate fewer days to Vietnam and stay in the North - again, unless others offer different advice. Maybe a couple days in Hanoi and finish the trip with a couple days on a beach to rest/unwind. Any advice/direction would be much appreciated. <BR><BR>Thanks again.

PeterN_H

I mentioned the train from Kunming to Hanoi because it's an experience in its own right, following a winding narrow gauge line built early last century by the French through mountainous terrain. But it's perfectly possible to follow at least one of the routes suggested using just air.<BR><BR>A few days in Beijing, followed by a flight to Kunming in order to visit Dali or other points in Yunnan Province, then a flight from Kunming to Hanoi would work. There are three flights a week between Kunming and Hanoi.<BR><BR>One of the keys to successful travel in China is not to try to do too much, and in this case what you do should be on your way from Beijing to Vietnam, if you want to visit both countries on the one trip (and take two days on a beach at the end).<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

DavePitt

So you asked...<BR>If you're only going to Asia once in your life, I think two weeks IS enough time. I've been to both countries and can recommend a week for Beijing and maybe Xian and a week to get through Vietnam if you plan your flights right. I liked Vietnam better, believe it or not. I went through Vietnam in a week after Thailand a couple of years ago. The country would provide a more relaxing and intimate experience. Plus some cool things like the firing range at the Cu Chi tunnels...

DavePitt

P.S.<BR>The food in Vietnam was better. The Furama in Danang is great.

Peep

We spent a week in Beijing last summer and really liked it. It's a fascinating city and just being in China was a thrill! We just spent 2 weeks in Vietnam, and I have to say I enjoyed it more. IMO, VN is easier to get around (lots of people speak English and I could recognize words in their language - can't say that for Chinese! ar ar), the food is better and the people are friendlier. That's based on my limited experience so of course I'm not saying everyone would feel the same.

ThinGorjus

While I have never been to Vietnam, it has always been my dream to visit there. I have been to China, and I can honestly say that standing on and hiking the Great Wall for 3 miles was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have seen the Parthenon, Taj Mahal, Angkor Wat, Kremlin, etc., yet none can compare.

Peep

I agree. Walking along the Great Wall was too cool, probably because I'd heard of it my whole life and never thought I'd actually see it. The Forbidden City is really cool, too, especially if you've read any of their history.