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china 1st time: Tauck or Insider Journeys?

china 1st time: Tauck or Insider Journeys?

Old Aug 12th, 2016, 12:45 PM
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china 1st time: Tauck or Insider Journeys?

I am considering a trip to China with DH for 2017. Although we generally travel independently, DH does not want to go to China without an escorted tour. He is not an adventurous traveler. He is happiest in Hawaii, or on a Windstar cruise (small - less than 300 people). I do more adventurous trips with my girlfriends. I do not want to do any cheap tours that involve 'shopping stops' and inconveniently located hotels. We did do an escorted tour of Israel years ago and although I didn't always like the group aspect, we had an amazing tour guide and we went places that I wouldn't have thought to plan on my own. So I am ok with an escorted tour in China.

I am looking at a Tauck tour, pricey though it includes most meals (not just at the hotels), and well located, 5 star hotels. Lots of extras on the Tauck tour and great reviews. It includes a few days in Hong Kong which I am not really interested in.

My travel agent suggested Insider Journeys which has small tours, escorted, as long as there are at least 7 on the tour. She has had great feedback on them from other clients. In looking at hotel reviews, I am not as happy with the hotel choices although they are listed as 4 star. The Inside Journeys does not cover most meals except breakfast. Which is ok as you get to explore a bit more I think. Both include a 3 day river cruise on the Yangze. I can take or leave that, but DH really likes the idea as a bit of a break from the hectic pace of touring.

Any thoughts on these 2 options? I also looked at A & K but they are really pricey!
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 12:53 PM
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Have you read the threads here on why you should never take a tour in China? Maybe reading them would convince DH that China is best done independently, and that it is not difficult.

I can't help with the companies you list, they are out of my price range these days. My first trip to China was with the Smithsonian, and even that trip had shopping ops., although it wasn't otherwise too bad. My second was a Silk Road tour with Intrepid, but they would be too down-market for you.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 01:07 PM
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I did read them, but it seemed like the bad stories were focussed on the lower end tours that included the shopping stops, substandard hotels, out of the central areas, lots of hidden costs and bland food experiences. I do not think that either of these tours will be in that category. I do worry that if I rule out the escorted tour, DH will not want to go.

Of course then I might switch to Japan, and he would probably be ok with that.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 02:35 PM
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The Smithsonian is not a cheap tour, and it definitely had shopping stops. It is how the local guide - and you will have to have a local guide even if you also have a guide from the tour company - makes her money.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 02:45 PM
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To be honest with you, Ellen, I'd opt for Japan. We were there during the koyo (fall colors) and it was spectacular.

There are too many problems with tours in China: shopping stops, inaccurate history and info about sites from guides, pollution. But if China is what calls to you - go and make the best of it, breaking away from the group tour as often as you can.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 03:32 PM
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A friend of mine went on a Tauck Tour to China and thought it was fabulous. She and her husband are not adventurous travelers. They liked that everything was taken care of. The hotels were first rate, though you would expect that of a Tauck Tour.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 03:38 PM
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Having been to both countries, I prefer touring Japan to touring China. I did Japan independently for 3 weeks and it was such a wonderful experience that I am going back for 16 days in November. When we toured China we went on a 3 day Viking Yangtze River cruise as part of our tour and I thought that experience was basically boring, though I did enjoy seeing the sites in Beijing, Shanghai, the Li River area and Hong Kong.
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Old Aug 12th, 2016, 04:43 PM
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HIgh-end in China? U are deluded. China is a rubbish heap in nearly all respects. Sure, a long and great history but you won't be there. You'll be 2016.
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Old Aug 13th, 2016, 08:04 AM
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The simplest and best solution is hiring drivers, and not guides from your hotels. We used them at the Grand Hyatt Beijing, the Grand Hyatt Xi'An, and the Shanghai Marriott. These guy come uniformed with nice Mercedes, and you hire them for an eight hour day, with a bit extra for overtime. You tell them where you want to go, and they do it. No gift shops, no communist propaganda, and the price is very reasonable. I don't know why more people don't tour China that way. Oh, and the hotel concierge can always help you with your route.
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Old Aug 13th, 2016, 08:57 AM
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And actually, no need to hire cars except for very rare purposes -- public transportation in China is very easy and efficient to use, and affords some wonderful glimpses into local life.

I've been to both Japan and northern China as a solo, independent traveler and found neither boring. I did find it easier to travel in Japan, though.
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Old Aug 13th, 2016, 04:55 PM
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Ok, so China is not off the table, but I am now starting to consider Japan instead. Thanks for all of your comments - off to do more research on Japan!
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Old Aug 13th, 2016, 05:06 PM
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Single best resource on Japan = japan-guide.com
Next best = JNTO

Good luck!
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Old Aug 14th, 2016, 02:43 PM
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I have traveled twice in China with the personal guide with some family members and found it very manageable. However, I do understand your husband's position.

We taken a few trips that fall into the same category, trips that we want to go on but not by ourselves. We selected overseas adventure travel, which is grand Circle travel's small group. Never more than about 13 people, more adventurous by far it would seem than a grand Circle trip. I have not been to China with them, but you may want to take a look. Oat.com
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Old Aug 14th, 2016, 02:58 PM
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We traveled to China independently and had no problems. With the amazing trip reports of kja and others here, you can glean wonderful information. While we were traveling, we happened upon friends who were on a tour of the summer palace. We were invited to tag along, which we did for the abbreviated tour that their tour company provided. When the group left for lunch, we returned to areas in the summer palace that we knew we had missed and we discovered that the brief tour left out our favorite spots. While a tour may be easier and you will have the companionship of hopefully likeminded interesting travelers, you will wait for everyone while they take bathroom breaks and you will see less than touring on your own. You can easily hire guides along the way as well as drivers.
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Old Aug 14th, 2016, 03:00 PM
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(@ dgunbug: thanks!)
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Old Aug 15th, 2016, 07:31 PM
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> No gift shops, no communist propaganda, and the price is very reasonable.

True, which is good; true, and good, but in the slightly negative way of getting no information at all; and (I'm sorry) completely contrary to fact. In that order.
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Old Aug 15th, 2016, 07:49 PM
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(@ temppeternh: Good to "see" you again -- hoping all is well!)
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Old Aug 15th, 2016, 08:56 PM
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Huh, temppeternh? When we use drivers and not guides, we do are own research, both before leaving, and while travelling. Does anyone really remember what a guide says, anyway? But I bet most people remember what they read.

My point is that there are alternative ways to travel through China. kja, for example, is very brave, and uses public transportation. Wimpy me prefers drivers. I mainly suggested drivers because the DH was reluctant to go without a tour, and having a guy in a Chinese-style silk shirt, all smiles, with his Mercedes may put him at ease.
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Old Aug 15th, 2016, 09:46 PM
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@ CaliforniaLady -- I believe there is a lot of research showing that some people learn and remember best by reading, while others learn and remember best through hearing. And, of course, not everyone does read in preparation for a trip. These things aside...,

IME, the cost of a car and driver was often 10 or 20 (or more) times the cost of public transportation in China -- literally, the difference between the equivalent of $2 to $5 for public transportation or $50 to $100 for a car and driver. Maybe those prices have changed or maybe the differences don't matter to everyone; they did to me. So yes, there is a choice to be made here, and if people won't otherwise go to China, I appreciate the value of making sure they are aware of the options, as you (CaliforniaLady) are doing. But I think there is also value in placing that option in context, both in terms of the information value and the relative costs those options, as temppeternh is doing.

I don't think it took any more bravery to use public transportation in China than it did in Italy or France or Mexico (just to name a few oft visited locations) -- if anything, I found the public transportation systems in Beijing and Xi'an easier and more reliable than anything in Italy. ;-) And I will repeat something I've often said: For me, the chance to see local people interacting with each other on public transportation was one of the delights of traveling in China. I treasure the memories of some irreplaceable glimpses into local life!

Obviously, people must make decisions that work for them, and I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, nor am I judging anyone for their travel choices. I'm just trying to add to the available information so that people can make informed decisions about what to do.
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Old Aug 15th, 2016, 10:31 PM
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Well said, kja. Different strokes for different folks.
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