Chiang Mai Challenge
 

Fodors Friends, I need your help!!

I've been in touch with Ratt about working with Poon while we are in CM and we're having a bit of a challenge. It was my understanding from other postings on this board that it was possible to go to the Elephant Training Camp at Lampang for just a couple of hours, NOT do the whole mahout training one day undertaking, but stay for an hour or two, see the show, maybe ride an elephant briefly and head on to do other things. Ratt says not...

She did mention something with elephants that lasted from about 8am until around 1pm, and I think she was talking about the Conservation Camp but I'm not certain about that either.

She has also encouraged that we visit an Elephant camp in town for just a couple of hours - I think for time purposes - but, based on messages from Gloria and others, I'm really inclined NOT to do that.

Am I completely confused (which is really quite possible) or is there a missing piece here. Guidance or suggestions most welcome!!

Thanks!!

You can visit the ECC anytime during business hours...maybe 8:30 or so until 4 or 5, have a look around, take what they call an elephant taxi (ride) and buy some elephant dung paper and lunch. The one day program is all day, not only until 1. Maybe they have changed open hours to stop at 1...but I doubt it.

If you go, it is entertaining to watch bathing...be there before 9, preferably 8:30 for that. A visit to their hospital is also good...some sad cases there.

It is 1 or 1 1/2 hours from Chiang Mai, so it is quite a distance to go for just an hour or two...that's probably why you are being steered towards somewhere closer. You might consider the one day program if time permits. www.changthai.com

Closer places are not necessarily "bad" but are much more full on touristy. As far as elephant treatment and mahout treatment is concerned, the TECC or places like the Anantara and Four SEasons in the Golden Triangle have very good working conditions...but other places can be OK too. You'll be able to tell right away...clean elephants and clothes for the mahouts, bright eyes for both, flapping ears for elephants, no cuts/wounds on the head or back of elephants...

Considering that the alternatives for the tourist camp elephants and mahouts are rather limited (begging on city streets, illegal logging are the most common), tourist camps are something that aren't so bad in that they provide relatively easy work for elephants that would otherwise be unemployed or in a much worse situation. Just choose carefully, and don't stay at a place that is not nice, tell them why, and you can report mistreatment or poor conditions to the TECC or the Golden Triangle Asian Elephant Foundation (Anantara/Four Seasons).

If you leave Chiang Mai about 8:00, watch the show and then perhaps take a short ride it will be getting on for 1:00 before you are finished. I guess that is what Ratt had in mind.

It takes slightly under an hour to drive from Chiang Mai to the Elephant Camp.

OK, so here's what we are now thinking, given that our "must do" things in CM are elephants, cooking class and Doi Suthep - I'm really afraid that we're probably trying to crowd way, way too much into a couple of days...and maybe miss just the "being" in CM. Guidance??

Arrive Friday lunch time-ish, probably to the hotel and settled by 1 or 1:30. Grab a bite en route to Doi Suthep for a couple or three hours. For this, should we get a taxi or take the bus from the city gate??? And if we just get a taxi, are there a couple of shops worth stopping at on the way back perhaps?? The Celadon market?? Are these in the same general direction??

Probably either dinner on the river or the night market and food there that night.

Saturday we have a class booked at A Lot of Thai (9-3:30) and then walking around the old city after for a couple of hours. Is that time for one or two of the key Wats?? Anyone know where A Lot of Thai is in relation? That evening, we'll probably do whichever of the night options (night market or river restaurant) we didn't do on night #1

Sunday: Full day mahout training at the Elephant Conservation Camp and Walking market that evening when we return.

Monday morning: we have a 12:50 flight out, so we can either relax that morning, get up early and stroll around the old city for a couple of hours or leave in time to have our taxi stop at a couple of shops on the way to the airport perhaps??

Is shopping at the markets enough to hit the high spots and get some goodies to take home? And are we skipping what should be half to a full day of seeing things in the old city that are not available in the evenings??

With this full of an agenda, I'm thinking sleep happens in Phuket...

There is not a celadon market, per se, but two well-known celadon factories, Baan Celadon and Siam Celadon. These are in the area that used to be called the Handicraft "villages" but which were factories even when I was first in CM 20 some years ago. It's not on the way to Doi Suthep.

CM is a huge sprawling city with no public transport. Thus, there are problems getting anywhere without hiring a car and driver. (You can catch a songthew around town, but not to go to places you want to visit.)

There is no way you are going to do everything you think you want to do in CM. Since your priorities are the elephants, a cooking class and Doi Suthep, do those and add in incidentals as you can. Don't stress about it. If you love CM, you'll go back. If you don't love CM, you'll feel like you had enough with your one visit.

Thanks. Great feedback.

Any chance either of the Celadon factories are on the way (even relatively) to the airport from Yaang Come so that we might be able to stop at a couple of "shops" or factories/outlets on the way out on Monday morning?? Have heard that many are not at all worth the effort, but if there are one or two generally (celadon and otherwise) that might be worth a stop, we can probably hit them if we leave the hotel by 9 or 9:30 for our 1pm flight to Phuket.

They really aren't "on the way" to the airport. But if you leave early enough you could do it. Traffic is terrible, so do ask your driver how much time you would need to make that stop. Do you have enough time in Bangkok to visit their showrooms there?

Probably - I have an extra day and a half in BKK on the way out with no plans including a full day on my own. We'll get details from you in BKK as to where to go there to hit the high spots.

Thanks!

We hired Poon via the internet prior to our trip to Thailand to take us on a day trip. Turns out at the last minute she was not available and sent a friend who turned out to be very nice. We were picked up early morning, went to the Elephant Training Camp where we spent a few hours watching the elephants bathe an elephant show and even saw the hospital. On the way back we stopped for lunch and a beautiful temple - can't remember the name or location. Then we continued on to the Celadon factory and ended our day by going to Doi Suthep after which she dropped us back at our hotel. No problem and no rush.

skiski6

Am I correct that they do NOT use baskets or chairs on the back of the elephants at the Elephant Training Camp in Chiang Mai as they do at many other Elephant camps??

Are you talking about an elephant ride place in Chiang Mai now, or the Elephant Conservation Center in Lampang? I thought you were going to Lampang...

Every place that gives rides uses the "chairs." If you are concerned about the information that the Elephant Nature Park gives out about the chairs breaking elephants' backs, I'd advise you to take that with a huge grain of salt.

While it is true that there have been cases, very few, of that happening, and you can see one such case at the ENP, it is NOT by any means the norm or an expected outcome. The ENP collects abused and injured elephants and uses their sad stories to attract customers...while offeriing a refuge is a great thing I think, using them for getting tourist dollars is exploiting them in the exact same way as offering rides and mahout training programs using healthy elephants, a thing they preach heavily against.

The "chair" has been being used on elephants for centuries...you'd think if broken backs were even a little common it wouldn't still be being used...the vast, vast majority of mahouts love their elephants like family and would not hurt them...and even the others who don't love, love their elephants depend on them for their livelihood, and it would be downright stupid if they did something that would break their backs.

The chairs are fitted well the majority of the time, with plenty of padding underneath. You will be able to see that in all but the lowest of the lowest level of ride offering places...and if you suspect that the place isn't looking out for the welfare and comfort of the elephant, then you can report them to the TECC or the Golden Triangle Asian Elephant Foundation.

You will be able to see if the elephants are unhappy right away...they are readable, just like people.

If you are doing the one day program at the TECC in Lampang, you will be able to ride on the neck. I think in that program you also take an elephant "taxi" - a ride in the chair. What you will be able to see when you are on the neck is the backs of the elephants...and in my experience, the backs are blemish free, which would not be the case if the chairs were so harmful.

If it is the TECC you are going to, you can rest easy knowing your money is used to support not only the working elephants and mahout and their families, but also the hospital and the elephants that are in refuge or retirement at the center as well. It is a good place.

No - Lampang for sure!! Thank you for the particulars and the clarification.

I am particularly sensitive to the abuse issues as I have a rescue dog (from a puppy mill) that is still skiddish from years of abuse and I cannot fathom utilizing either my time or dollars to support bad treatment of animals. If the ECC profits from doing good things and the advertise it, then at least they are still doing good things.

Guess I just wanted to clarify standard v. abusive practices.

Thank you!!

Abuse you will be able to clearly see I think...elephants that are abused have a look about them in their eyes. I have also seen elephants (not at the TECC or other good place, but on the street) with wounds on their heads and ripped ears...that to me is indicative of abuse. The TECC collects tourist money to enable them to gainfully and safely employ elephants and mahouts (rather than have them begging or logging illegally) as well as to support the hospital and refuge. I doubt there is much, if any profit.

Thank you so much for your feedback! I am very comfortable with the TECC program and am extremely excited about our visit there. We are still trying to determine for sure whether it will be a part day visit or a one-day training course, but in any case, no doubt a fantastic experience!

More in a trip report for sure...

Thank you!!

So that sounds like at the ECC at Lampang, those of us who want to do the mahout training course could participate while the others in our party could just "browse" for the day and fill in a few hours there.

Does anyone know if the 2 options are at the same place? When I contacted them it sounded as though the mahout training was elsewhere from the day visitors , and I couldn't establish if I would be far from the rest of the family .

Also does anyone know if its OK to catch a bus there to arrive early?
Thanks

I am also a huge animal lover. I went to ECC specifically at the recommendation of my dog's holistic vet who did some training there a few years ago and said the work they are doing is wonderful. She also recommended the Elephant Nature Park outside of Chiang Mai but said to avoid all the other ones.

We are absolutely SOLD on ECC in Lampang - Just need to get things arranged in such a way that Poon/Ratt is comfortable with us doing both a few hour visit there and a trip to Doi Suthep the same day.

It sounds as if others have done that without any problem and had a very enjoyable day. If that does create problems for them, perhaps we will need to work on a "plan b" for a driver, but I don't think it will come to that. I hope not since Poon has gotten such wonderful reviews here!!

Thanks to everyone for your feedback and clarification.

Hooray!! We have everything worked out with Ratt for our day with Poon out of Chiang Mai - half day at the TECC and a visit to Doi Suthep with a little bit of shopping if time permits.

I'm so relieved that it has all worked out - and am so glad for a couple of the wonderful trip reports that outlined the detail we were hoping for and helped to clear up some of the confusion.

Thankfully, this "trip list" is about checked off. Thanks to everyone for all of your great help!!