ellstah

Seriously, I don't know what I'd do without my Fodors forum! My best friend has become Google, but my real bestie remains Fodors

I've got what I THINK is a somewhat sensible itinerary for the SE Asia leg of my trip, but please let me know if you think if my itinerary looks a bit...off or anything. I'm definitely open to suggestions and advice from all of you who have traveled so extensively in the region!

I'm trying to keep everything somewhat budget-friendly but still relatively comfortable (as comfy as budget travel can be), so I'm trying not to have to fly everywhere as often as possible, so long as it doesn't require some 24 hr long ride on buses that may potentially make me quesy.

SE Asia Start Point:
Feb 27 - Taipei, Taiwan to Phnom Penh, Cambodia

*PHNOM PENH (2 nights) to do the following:

1) The Silver Pagoda
2) The Killing Fields
3) Tuol Sleng

===Bus from Phnom Penh to Siem Reap (5-6 hrs? / any recommended bus companies?)===

* SIEM REAP (3 nights) to do the following:

1) *Angkor Wat
2) Bayon Temple
3) *Angkor Thom
4) *Ta Prohm
5) Banteau Srei + Kabal Spean
6) Preah Khan
7) Pre Rup
8) Banteay Samre
9) Phnom Bakheng
10) Tonle Sap

===Siem Reap to Vientiane by bus (any recommended bus companies?)===

Possible stop in Don Det / 4000 islands? I hear this is a 1 day bus journey to Don Det from Siem Reap, and another 1 day bus journey from Don Det to Vientiane? Does anyone have any advice on this? Having trouble finding much detail on this.

Siem Reap - Don Det - Vientiane?

*VIENTIANE, LAOS (1 night)
1) Check out some Wats (Wat Sisaket and Ho Pha Kaew), Mekong River food stalls

===Vientiane to Vang Vieng by bus (4 hrs? / any recommended bus companies?)===

*VANG VIENG (2-3 nights) to do:

1) Caving, Limestone Mountains – Tham Chang Cave
2) Outdoor Activities –Tubing, etc.

==Vang Vieng to Luang Prabang (5-6 hrs??)==

*LUANG PRABANG (2-3 nights) to do:

1) See colonial buildings, ancient temples
2) Mount Phou Si temple – climb to temple’s peak
3) Tat Kuang Si – awesome waterfalls / pools (should we hire a driver?)
4) Morning Almsgiving
5) Wat Xient Thong (Golden City Temple)
6) Phu Si Hill at sunrise – to see view of Luang Prabang
7) Mount Phousi at sunset
8) River Cruise to Pak Ou Caves (maybe--I've read this isn't that impressive)

**This is where I get confused...LAOS - VIETNAM

I was thinking of Luang Prabang to Hanoi, since both are somewhat northern, seemed to make the most sense?

Only method of travel I found was a $200 flight from LP to Hanoi, and comments about how this is a 24 hr+ bus ride with no direct route.

I was hoping to do Hanoi - Halong Bay, and need to find my way to Ho Chi Minh City for a flight out to Australia afterward...

Thanks in advance for all the help, and apologies for the longgggg post!

Vientianeboy

I would not spend 3 nights in Vang Vieng, but rather two and one extra night in Vientiane. Vientiane has a lot to do and to see and your time there is too limited. You might also find that you are very disappointed by Vang Vieng, as there has been a lot of building going on and some of the views are now spoiled. You realise there was another death in VV yesterday with some drunken idiot jumping off a tower?

While the Pak Ou caves themselves are not exciting, the boat trip up the Mekong is a very pleasant way to spend half a day.

thursdaysd

For transport options in Cambodia see http://talesofasia.com/. I think you need another day in Siem Reap.

The islands in southern Laos are OK, but I'd recommend Champasak and Wat Phu if you only make one stop in the south. And that's one looong bus ride - worth checking for flights. There used to be a Pakse-Vientiane flight that would cut it down some. (See http://wilhelmswords.com/asia2002 for my definitely dated trip to the same region.)

I'd cut out VV altogether except as an overnight to break up the bus ride. Or look at flying Vientiane to LP. VV was ridiculously back-packer touristy (beer and bikinis and inner tubes and outnumbered locals) even when I was there in 2002, and the young woman I talked to last year thought it was pretty bad now.

I'm not up on overland from LP to Hanoi, have you checked the Lonely Planet guidebooks? Do you want to see anything in Vietnam other than Hanoi and Saigon? Because if not it would make more sense to fly Taipei to Hanoi and go Hanoi - LP - Vientiane etc. Or Taipei into Saigon and loop north and fly home from Hanoi.

TrangNguyen

- From Luang Prabang to Hanoi:
Actually it is nearer from Vietiane than from Luang Prabang to Hanoi, and there are many direct buses from VTE to HAN ( it takes about 24 hours ride, costs around 35 USD with soft sleeper)
- In Vietnam
From Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh city, you can travel by airplain(2 hour flight),by train (29-32 hours) or by bus (2-3 days)
How many days are you going to spend in Vietnam? There are many other sights you should not miss.

crellston

PHNOM PENH

You have the main sights covered but don't miss the Central and Russian markets if you have the time.

Buses to SR are probably best arranged with your guesthouse who will know the decent ones and will usually arrange "free" transport to bus station if necessary.

DON DET / 4000 ISLANDs

Bus travel from LP into Vietnam is possible but will take a lot of time - probably best to fly if you have limited time. Land border crossing can be a little problematic from time to time (bribes/rip offs etc).

I love the Si Phan Don area but would not choose Don Det (unless you want to be surrounded by other backpackers with little Lao ambience). Don Khong is much a better place to stay IMO. That said it is long way just for one night. As thursdays suggests Wat Phu is maybe a better option in the south or, even better is the area around Tad Lo up on the Bolavens Plateau but again all are a long way for one day.

VAN VIENG

A dreadful place. Avoid it like the plague!

LUANG PRABANG

Loads to see although it does get very busy these days. I would miss out the Pak Ou caves as VB suggests as they are pretty uninspiring but a boat trip on the river is good as is a trip accross to the opposite bank of the river. There are so many Wats in LP that I suspect a lot of your time will be spent in these. Early morning and late afternoon are the best times (quieter and great for photography).

Bus travel to Vietnam from LP is entirely possible but does take a long time and land border crossing can be fraught with problems (e.g. bribes and other rip offs) from time to time. The roads, whilst better than they used to be are still rough in places. That said overland travel is undoubtedly the best way to see more of the country if you have the time.

sf7307

Is your 3-night stay in SR just 2 full days or is it 3? I don't think you can see everything on your list in 2 days. You might be able to include Tonle Sap if you have 3 days.

ellstah

Thanks for all the advice guys! Does anyone know what the best method of going from Siem Reap to Don Khong is?

If I'm to change out Don Det for Don Khong (it does sound like it's a lot more peaceful/beautiful than the backpacker-filled Don Det)

crellston

The best/easiest (& probably only!) way is to get a bus to Kratie, which itself is an ok place to spend a day or two and then a bus/boat combo to any of the islands. The guest houses in Kratie will sell you a combination ticket of a bus to Stung Treng, a boat across the river and then another bus to Don Khong and a ferry to any of the islands. It sounds a lot more complicated than it is - takes around 5 hours with a bit of waiting at Stung Treng for the boat.

Some photos & further detail on our blog (Entries# 7 onwards):

http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-blo...ai/1/tpod.html

It is really easy to find accomodation on arrival in Kratie (if needed) and Don Khong.

ellstah

Oh boy. After looking at all this, and realizing I really only have about 10 days to explore both Cambodia and Laos, I'm thinking I may need to re-evaluate what I can/can't fit in and my methods of transportation.

Just based on the transport times, it seems I may be in over my head (can someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this below?):

1) Phnom Penh to Siem Reap by bus -5-6 hrs?

2) Siem Reap to Vientiane by bus (after double checking my research, it sounds like this is a REALLY long bus journey taking at least a few days, esp. with a stop in 4000 Islands?)

-Possible stop in 4000 Islands from Siem Reap:-

@ crellston, not sure if i read this right, but it sounds like if i go from SR to 4000 Islands, this is about the amount of time it takes:
-Siem Reap to Kratie - 5-6 hrs
-Kratie to Stung Treng- 2 hrs? (*at Kratie, buy combo ticket of bus to ST, boat, bus, ferry)
-Stung Treng -- border crossing/visa on arrival -- ferry to Don Khong - a few hrs?

Estimated travel TOTAL TIME: 1 -2 days?

4000 Islands - Paxse - 4 hrs?

Paxse to Vientiane - 10 hrs? (8pm sleeper/overnight bus)

Estimated travel TOTAL TIME: 1-2 days?

It seems like it's at least a 4 day journey from Siem Reap to Vientiane by bus (having to stop in one or two places on the way so it's not so overwhelming being on a bus for so long), so I'm wondering if I should cut 4000 Islands out entirely from my trip, and also rethink journeying by bus.

Might have to fly due to my limited time constraints. Please let me know your thoughts/advice

2) Vientiane to Vang Vieng by bus - 4 hrs?

3) Vang Vieng to Luang Prabang by bus - 5-6 hrs?

crellston

ellstah - you have got it about right. Realistically you will need an overnight stay in Kratie and you also need to think about the departure times of the buses. It is a pretty town alongside the river with a busy local market an one or two temples worth seeing but with just 10 days I don't think it is worth the time. Si Phan Don is beautiful and very peaceful and great if you are on an overland trip. It is 4-5 hours by bus to pakse where there are flights to other parts of the country or onward buses

I really would suggest you rethink your travel plans and either stick with one country where bus travel may make more sense, or just go to the main sights in the two, flying where possible. If you have the budget then flying would make more sense as bus travel will eat into your vacation time dramatically.

my choices for 10 days would be Siem Reap 4 days, Phnom Penh 2 days and Luang Prabang 4 days. I would miss out Vientienne - it was a lovely city years ago but I was disappointed the last time I was there in 2008.

I don't mean to add to your dilemma, but have you considered just Laos - spending a few days in LP followed by a tour of the far north (still largely unspoilt) around Muang Sing, Phongsali etc. would make a great trip.

Have you looked at www.travelfish.org and http://www.talesofasia.com/ both of which provide excellent, up to date info on travel in SEA?

ellstah

Thanks, crellston.

I think I'm going to re-adjust to the schedule below, do you think this is more feasible?
I originally wanted to do a lot of overland travel through Laos and Cambodia b/c I hear it's really beautiful, but after reading everyone's feedback, seems like given my limited time, I should fly wherever possible (and within my budget), so I decided to do a mixed bag of overland travel/flying (to save $ and to see the countryside).

Does this look more feasible for a 10 day trip?


1) Luang Prabang - 2 days, 3 nights

==6 hr Bus from Luang Prabang to Vang Vieng
2) Vang Vieng - 1 day, 2 nights

==6 hr Bus from Vang Vieng back to Luang Prabang==
==Flight from Luang Prabang to Siem Reap==

3) Siem Reap - 3.5 days, 4 nights

==7am bus from Siem Reap to Phnom Penh, arrive by 3pm==

4) Phnom Penh - 1.5 days, 2 nights
5) Depart to Sydney 2:45pm

thursdaysd

Forget VV. It is totally not worth two six hour bus rides, especially when you're going back to where you started! Some of the VV scene has migrated north to LP, if that's what you're after, and if it isn't, you don't need to be in VV.

I might even suggest skipping LP and spending all your time in Cambodia - you could add Battambang (by boat if it's the right time of year) and/or the coast (I think I read that Bokor had reopened). LP used to be magical, but I was disappointed when I revisited (for the third time) last year.

ellstah

@ thursdaysd:

really? what changed about LP that had you disappointed?

crellston

ellstah - I totally agree with thursdaysd's comments re VV the scenery is pretty enough but it is jammed with partying backpackers either high or drunk. fine if that is what you are after but not really a good representation of Lao.

I also tend to agree with T's comments re LP. I have visited LP 4 times over the last 15 years the last time being in 2007. It had changed a lot over that period and not for the better. It was a lot busier (relatively), much more expensive and now receives a lot of bus tour groups. Still probably worth a visit for a few days particularly if visiting the far north.

Staying in Cambodia is no hardship as there is a lot to see both in the interior and on the coast. The scenery is not as dramatic as Lao but it does have some great beaches and islands - Koh Tonsay would make a nice beach break - http://www.travelfish.org/location/c...pot/koh_tonsay

crellston

ellstah - I am signed up for the travelfish weekly updates and thought you may be interested on this proposed itinerary for PP that just came through:

http://www.travelfish.org/trip_plann...ays-phnom-penh

ellstah

Hm, all good points about possibly just extending my stay in Cambodia. Would I be missing much by not going to Laos, though? I originally wanted to see both Laos and Cambodia because I felt they were very similar countries, but also very different so wanted to experience/see that. I don't think I'll be back in the region anytime very soon, so I wanted to see as much diversity as possible (although, to your point, at this point, LP is probably very commercialized and not entirely representative of Lao culture.

Koh Tonsay looks beautiful! From what I've found via google (there doesn't seem to be much, which I'm guessing contributes to its unspoilt nature)

thursdaysd

For my take on LP, see http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...luang-prabang/

I understand what you want to do, but you need more time.

Smeagol

I loved LP and think it's still magical ( I went 2 years ago) personally I think it's worth a few days. Aside from the crazy tour buses at Tak bat we didn't see hoards of tourists but maybe we were out of season! That's said you do have a LOT in your itinerary. I do think you are trying to see too much

1stimetraveller

Hi Ellstah,

I was wondering how you went with this itinerary? I will be in Phnom Phen for 7weeks for an internship (31st July-25th September), then will take a bus to Siem Reap for 3 days. From there, I am hoping to visit a little bit of Laos and then go down to Vietnam, where I will fly back home to Melbourne. The 2 places in Vietnam that I absolutely want to visit are Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City.

I don't mind overland travel so much as I will be travelling for about 4 weeks once I leave Cambodia and am also trying to save on cash. I was wondering if you had any recommendations from your personal experience?

Thank you!

LancasterLad

You might find this excellent link useful for all the major towns in Cambodia...

http://www.canbypublications.com/

If you plan on travelling from PP to SR by road, then the best bus company is Giant Ibis...

http://www.giantibis.com/

Vietnam is a long, narrow country, and there's a lot of land and places to see between Hanoi (north) and Ho Chi Minh City. So use your time available carefully. Internal flights are inexpensive (Vietjet).

We're going to Vietnam soon for 4 weeks, and I've chopped our ambitious itinerary in half, so that we aren't rushing around. Basically we're doing...

- HCMC (2 nights)
- Fly to Dalat
- Dalat (5 nights)
- Fly to Da Nang
- Da Nang (4 nights)
- Train to Hue
- Hue (5 nights)
- Train/bus to Hoi An
- Hoi An (7 nights)
- Fly to HCMC
- HCMC (1 night)
- Bus to somewhere in Meekong Delta (2 nights)
- Bus to HCMC
- HCMC (1 night)

Next year we'll do the north of the country, Hanoi, Sapa, Nimh Binh, possibly Halong Bay, and combine it with a couple of weeks in Thailand.