Calling all Thailand Gurus--please critique game plan
 

I have been lurking on the Thailand forum for some time and have enjoyed and profited from many posts about where to stay, what to see, how to do it. Special thanks to rhkkmk, kathie and JamesA and many others for your travel wisdom.

I would appreciate a critique of our trip. I know this is the most basic, gloss-over agenda. I'm sure we will go back so we're basically just trying to get an overview. We are well traveled on the Western side of the world....this will be our first trip to the Eastern side so we want to try to keep from being overwhelmed.

Then again,

We are very energetic, have traveled together for 15 years, like to see the sights, sample as much of the local cuisine as possible and shop. We like to meet people. We are early-risng, siesta-taking, staying-up-late people when on vacation. Our motto is "Sleep when you're dead" and we sort of prefer a rather grueling agenda. We get bored sitting still for long periods but short bits of relaxation in between are required.

Jan 25-Feb 10. 2005
Arrive BKK midnight
4 days Bangkok
5 days Koh Samui or Krabi
3 days Siem Reap
3 days Bangkok

Here are my questions:

1. Airlines. If I fly Korea Air, tickets are $668pp with good connections. I also get miles from Delta for this flight. The layover is in Seoul and on the way back it's 6 hours long. If we fly Singapore air, connections are better, but I get no miles and tickets are almost $300pp more. Is Singapore Airlines better than Korean Air? Small differences add up on a flight that long in coach. Why does flying into Seoul make me nervous?

2, We considered an open jaw-perhaps flying out of Singapore but we are locked into the number of days we can take and I didn't think 4 days in Bangkok was enough. There are 2-3 days worth of wats and massages alone and then we need time to shop. If we went to Bangkok twice, we could tour Wats the first time through and then shop/sightsee the second time. Any opinions about this idea vs flying out of Singapore? I assume shopping is good in Singapore as well.....I'm torn. Help me decide.

3. We will stay at the Penninsula on the first stay in Bangkok. If we do decide to leave from Bangkok, which hotel should we stay in that will be most conductive to shopping? I like the Marriott that rhkkmk always stays in. Is it near the SkyTrain? I have ordered Nancy Chandler's map. I hope this will come more clear when I see that. Is there a strategic shopping route?

4. We will contact Ponheary to be our guide/driver for the Angkor Wat segment. I will also read the Dawn Rooney book recommended by Kathie. The side trip to Angkor Wat looks pretty straightforward. I hope we can see the major sites, Bayon and Ta Phrom in 3 full days and nights. I know it's ambitious but we'll be ready to move after hanging out on the beach. Still looking at hotels--We like the Raffles hotel but it's too spendy. Looking for something cheaper but comfy with a good pool.

5. In Bangkok I will see if Ratt can take us to the Damnern Saduak floating market. Otherwise is it good to have a guide for the wats in Bangkok or are they pretty easily grasped with a guide book underarm?

6. Chinese New Year is Feb 8th and whether we go to Singapore or back to Bangkok, is there anything I should now about this? We will be there Feb 7-10. I will need to do some research on it--but anyone who has been there during that time, please advise. Are the shops closed or is it confined to Chinatown? Are the cultural events absolutely insane? Better seen from a hotel balcony, like the run in Pamplona?

7. I like the ZaZen Bungalows on Ko Samui. I got a quote for a deluxe beachfront for $118/night. Really like the looks of the place but am starting to think maybe Krabi instead? Is Krabi more aesthetically pleasing beach-wise? Here's what we want out of the "hanging out at the beach portion of the trip": Air Conditioning, good pool, nice grounds, bungalow (as opposed to hotel), beachfront, nice beach with shady areas or umbrellas, super clear water, all day access to food and drinks and someone to bring it to us if possible, nice restaurant on site or close by. $200/night tops. We don't need to party at night-rather watch the sunrise with some awesome coffee. Please advise where you think we should be for the beach portion.

8. On Bangkok air we fly from ko samui back to BKK and then on to Siem Reap depart 15:40 arrive 19:05. It's not bad, but is there something more direct?

9. Prep me for the jet lag. Total travel time from SFO or LAX is 9-20 hours including ground time. Plus I've got to get from TX to CA, which I would do the day before. Is a 20 hour journey just incredibly horrible? When I touch down in Europe, I always tell myself I could not have made it another hour. What about knocking yourself out with a careful mixture of drugs and alcohol (kidding, sort-of)? What's the best way to live through it, short of handing over $4500 and going business class?

10. Has anyone been to the english speaking meditation classes on Big Buddha Beach?

I will stop there though I have many more questions. I want/need to get our airfare purchased so I can start booking accomodations and am anxious to hear what you all have to say.

Isn't it a grand time we live in, when you can throw your travel questions out into the wind and tap into the greatest resource anywhere; a fellow traveler.

Cheers!

Overall, I think your itinerary is fine. You've given yourself enough time in each place to get to know it a bit. You haven't figured in your travel time between places, so recognize that will take a bite out of several of your days.

1. Transpacific Flights: I know this an unpopular opinion on this board, but I think coach is coach. The thing that would make your flight more comfortable would be more space. Your options for that are: Business Class (I always use miles to upgarde); if you are a very frequent flier on United (Premier or Premier Exec) you can get Economy Plus seats assigned which give you about 6 extra inches of legroom; Eva Air has Evergreen Deluxe Class which gives you almost Business class seats with coach service. Otherwise, you're stuck with coach. Some people believe having individual seat back screens for entertainment makes a big difference. For me, I mostly read, so I don't care.

2. If you want to visit Singapore, then an open jaw is a great idea. Shopping in Singapore isn't nearly as good as shopping in Bangkok, so don't go for the shopping. Given your limited time, I'd save Singapore (perhaps combined with Bali) for your next trip.

3. I always stay at the Royal Orchid, in the Towers. I find it find for temples (just catch a water taxi) or for shopping (taxis). Others talk about being stuck in traffic for an hour. In all my visits to Bangkok (about 20) I've never had the experience of being stuck in traffic for that long. yes, the traffic is bad, but not that bad. I haven't used the Sky Train. For me, staying along the river is important, and it certainly hasn't cramped my shopping style. (It is true that the Pen is on the "wrong" side of the river, so carrying purchases back may be a bit of a hassle, but I've never heard anyone complain about it.)

4. Yes, your side trip to Angkor does look straight forward. I stayed at the Angkor Village Resort in Siem Reap and had a lovely stay. My only compaint was that the beds are traditional style, which means HARD. It has a lovely little pool, and the charming restaurant had the best food we ate in Siem Reap. The French proprietor was helpful and did everything to ensure our stay was good. We had the more expensive rooms (which are on the upper level). They have soaring ceilings which contribute to the comfort. I must warn you that people seem to have highly variable experiences at the Angkor Village (as they seem to at the other hotels in Siem Reap and other places where tourism is still developing). Bob, for instance, never knew that there was an option to order from an a la carte menu in the restaurant, so found the food rather expensive and not very interesting.

5. I see no reason to have a guide for the temples in Bangkok. Read up before you go, take a good guidebook along.

6. I've not been in bangkok for Chinese New Year. In Singapore, many of my favorite shops are closed for the celebrations.

7. I have no info for you on this.

8. There is no more direct flight from Koh Samui to Siem Reap than the connection through Bangkok.

9. Jet lag: There are a number of threads on this topic. Everyone is different, everyone has their own favorite remedies. Personally, I use melatonin to help me adjust to the time change. I no longer lose much time because of jet lag, but I try to be aware of when I am reaching my limit and take a break from more strenuous activities and nap, swim or get a massage.

10. Sorry, no info on this.

Your schedule sounds just fine to me. I wouldn't take Singapore out, though. It's a very interesting place and since you're already in that part of the world go for it. It's a great place to eat and shopping is really good if you want to buy interior design items for the home or textiles/antique items(Tanglin Shopping Mall)...and also shops along Club street...along with down on Arab Street area for textiles.Also Peter Hoe Evolution in the Chjmes complex across from Raffles hotel. Pull up my previous post on Great Shopping Guides for Southeast Asia where I've listed the best guides...Treasures and Pleasures of.... by Impact Guides. They do many countries and country combinations like Singapore/Bali Singapore/Malasia Bangkok etc.. As for where to stay on your return to Bangkok,...it's totally debatable. If it's the river you want, then probably the Royal Orchid which is attached to THE antique mall of Bangkok which has great items(from all over Southeast Asia) under one big, air conditioned roof...boutique after boutique. I personally like staying at the Four Seasons which is right across the street from the Rajadamri sky train and one or two stops from the Siam Square sky train stop where there are two malls...Siam Discovery...go to a store inside the mall called Anyroom and they carry those gorgeous flower vases by Sakul Intakul who's a leading florist in Bangkok and does the arrangements and huge sculpture-style bronze vases for the Sukothai Hotel. His vases are worth the price and very unique and HARD to find. Plus the Four Seasons is walking distance to the Amarin Mall...a store on the third floor called...Come Thai has only textiles...thousands of pieces...all over the floor piled up...pieces I couldn't find in other places and a decent price. Many make great table runners. Plus the World Trade Center Mall is also walking distance from the Four Seasons and they have great shops in their courtyard...even a Jim Thompson and NeOld and a Shanghai Tang which is wonderful...although there are two Shanghai Tangs in Singapore if you're into their things. And in Singapore, for Crocodile/Alligator everything, it's Kaiyo Reptile Products PTE.LTD at 14-16 Chang Charn Road Tel.4792993. It's near Hoifhat Road...take a taxi. And whatever the price of an item is, take out your calculator and immediately take off 30% and bargain hard...that's on high-end items like purses. Know your crocodile products...like Mississippi Alligator is probably THE best so you will pay...but I got a gorgeous black purse for $700. US which could have easily gone for $2500-$3000 in the US. All items are stamped Crocodile products...as Crocodile has three categories...Crocodile,Alligator, and Caiman. Caiman is a cheaper skin so ask first what you're getting. I prefer Alligator. They provide paperwork saying that it didn't come from an endangered species. Oh, and what part of the skin is important too. Don't get cuts high up on the animal...the bumpy part...not good unless you like that look. Go into a store, in the States, before you go...like Neiman Marcus and look at their bags and then you'll know what high quality skins look like. I kind of grew up on these products as my granfather used to deck himself out in these products when I was a kid...and remember in Singapore they eat crocodile meat so as far as I'm concerned...although I'm vegetarian..it's like wearing leather which I have no problem with. Hope this has been helpful. Happy travels!

Kathie and Guenmai

Many, many thanks for the excellent advise. These are definite keepers.

Have spent all afternoon researching flights and I think the Eva Evergreen Deluxe Class is the way we'll go, hoping the little bit of extra space will help. I see BillT and some others have been fans.

Leaning towards returning to Bangkok rather than going out from Singapore. Might change my mind if we end up on Singapore Airlines.

Hoping to hear more feedback about the best/cheapest way to go over from LAX.

Excellent, excellent shopping notes Guenmai.

i may not remember all your questions..

i would go the cheapest way...korean is just fine...singapore is of course the best in the business...we take sleeping pills on trans-pacific...

za-zen is not all that great and the water is not good, plus there are noisy fishing boats out front...their restaurant is excellent...

i prefer the peace resort just down the beach...the water at bophut is not crystal clear and the sea floor is mushy..the pool at peace is fabulous and right next to the beach...the beach itself is just fine...you would have to limit your time on the beach--its too hot....pool has plenty of shade...

you schedule is ambitious, but just fine...

you will love the peninsula...all the river hotels from the major chains are fine---i do not like the sheraton however, but many fodorites love it...

transportation in bkk is easy...doesn't really matter where you stay if you have access to the skytrain and taxis...the river is really best...

in addition to nancy chandlers, may i suggest the book: THE TREASURERS AND PLEASURERS OF THAILAND by ron krannich...it is super for shopping, eating and hotels, plus some sightseeing...

look at the angkor hotel in siem reap and also the sofitel (i would stay there another time if the price is right)...forget the grand...

bob

Iv'e been to Bangkok in Chinese New Year ..yes some places are closed at that time of year but there were so many others open that it did not interfere with our enjoyment.I would not worry about that aspect. Have fun!

Offwego- if you are 6 feet tall or taller believe me you want as much leg room as you can get- otherwise you are a pretzel for 15 hours or so. We went Evergreen Delux Class. Our ticket from Houston texas was about $977 - so from SFO or LA it should cost you hundreds less. It made all the difference in the world.
As this is your first trip to the East if you have not been in 90 degree heat with 90% humidity- you will find that you are not going to be able to go go go all the time- you should build in a lot of rest breaks at the hotel/pool/massage. Our approach was to get started early in the morning and then be back at the hotel by noon and relax and then go out in the late afternoon/evening- just avopid that mid day period when the sun is hottest.

BillT

I was able to find tickets last night on Eva Air (Evergreen) all the way from Austin for $1989 for 2. That is a great price and we are looking forward to having a bit more room.

Understand completely about the weather. It gets plenty hot and humid in our neck of the woods too, but frankly I'm sitting here in my air=conditioned office all day--I'm not exactly out pounding the pavement. So I get it completely; hence the importance of a good pool at the hotel and easy transportation.

Can't thank you enough for your good advise.

Hi!
I've heard mixed things about Korean Air but have never taken it myselt. I do not think it compares to the other asian airlines -- Thai, Singapore, Cathay, Malaysian.

In Bangkok, consider staying on the other side of the river -- Royal Orchid, Oriental, Marriott, Shangrila. Just a bit more convenient. But if you got a great rate at the Peninsula, stay there.

No need for a guide for the temples as long as you're well read.

Shopping in Bangkok is MUCH better than in Singapore. Personally, I found Singapore quite boring. Not nearly as interesting as the other places on your list.

I'd also consider taking a day trip to River Kwai while in Bangkok. Very moving.

There is shopping everywhere in Bangkok. There is a huge shopping center connected to the Royal Orchid and ones near the marriott and Oriental. All of those can be gotten to from the Peninsula since I'm sure they have ferry service.

Going to Bangkok twice is a good idea. There is a huge amount to do in the city and around it.

Three full days in Angkor Wat should be fine.

A lot of the stores will close around Chinese New Year in Bangkok. If you want to have clothes made, order them during your first stay and have your fitting your first day back. They can do clothes in 24 hours but they do a better job when you give them time.
Gloria

Offwego-I live in L.A., too. anyhow, go for an airline that will give you frequent flyer miles. I've been on frequent flyer programs since the 80s and you really get lots of them when flying to S.E. Asia. Singapore Air is great, but expensive. I've flown them within S.E.Asia, but Thai Air out of LAX is usually only $750. rd.trip and if you have to cancel you only have to pay a $75. cancellation fee even if you cancel as late as the day of departure. I went to the Thai Air office , on Sepulveda, about 5 mins south of LAX and got a ticket for Bangkok and Singapore for next month for $1181. total...taxes included. Got to go...will finish typing later.

Definately go with the miles and the cheaper ticket.

Shopping in Bangkok is MUCH better than in Singapore. No contest.

As for hotel, if shopping is your main concern on your way back, stay at The Pathumwan Princess and get an executive level room. Should only run you about $120 a night and you'll have a suite, executive breakfast by the pool and all day access to the exec lounge where they serve snacks, soda, coffee etc., complimentary.

Also, PP is ATTACHED to MBK. This is one of the best shopping places in town as the prices are good AND it's indoor (read - A/C)

You are smart to want to do extra days in Bangkok. On our first trip there, we spent 10 days straight and didn't regret it at all. People thought we were nuts but it worked out well and we always spend at least 4-5 days in Bangkok when we go to Thailand.

Good luck!

thank goodness I'm kind of a black sheep in this foram the last thing I want too be called is a Guru or expert. lol


flying threw taipai may be faster and if you go on EVA or CHINA AIRLINES the price may be about the same. china airlines is part of delta skymiles so check to see what kind of miles if any you can get.

Hi again...I think it would be a good idea for you to conatct Escapes Unlimited...800.243-7227 or 714.771-3154. They are actually the nation's specialist on Bali, but do the whole Southeast Asia region. My best friend goes to Bali/Singapore regularly, traveling alone, and only uses them and only flies Singapore Air which has very good hotel/flight packages. My best friend met me in Bangkok in April 2002 and she'd gone through Escapes Unlimited and when we got to Singapore she had been booked into the Rendevous Hotel(on my reccomendation)which was on Singapore Air's list of specials. The first night was something like $8.00 and the second around $40.It usually cost about $125-$150. This is for a 3-4 star hotel in an excellent location(across from the Dhoby Gaut MRT-subway-station).They even had the Ritz Carlton on the list for about $50. for the first night. My best friend loved the Rendevous and location and said she'll always stay there when she returns to Singapore. Escapes Unlimited travel is located in Orange County...right south of L.A. Talk to the agent named Roe. I spoke with her, some years ago, although I ended up just making my own arrangements on that trip. If I were you, I'd fly into Bangkok...go to the beach area first...then to Siem Reap..and back to Bangkok and then on to Singapore and fly home from Singapore. I usually do L.A.-Bangkok-Singapore-L.A. However next month I'll have to double back to Bangkok due to wanting to save some money...but in October maybe the pricing will be better for you.You might as well do Singapore since you are already in that part of the world and in these politically troubled times I really try to get as much in as possible once I've flown somewhere...since who knows if I'll get back as frequently as I used to. Happy travels! I've got to go.

Forgive my ignorance but what is MBK - related to Bangkok?
Sophia

MBK Mabungkhrong (sp) mall.

Upstairs in MBK is a fabulous food hall....lots of stalls with clean fresh food. You buy coupons first then wander around the various stalls to choose what you want at very reasonable prices. If you have vouchers left you cash them back in. Have fun!

On my most recent BKK trip of just one week ago, I discovered the Food Loft on the 6th (maybe 7th) floor at Central Chitlom store. Now there's a great food court! IMHO it beats MBK's. (sorry peteralan)

As far as traffic, I HAVE been stuck for what was going to be an hour (taxi driver said so! and I believe him) to get from our apartment at Sukhumvit soi 11 to the Oriental for a dinner reservation. We finally jumped out of the taxi and caught the skytrain and arrived about 10 minutes later than our expected arrival time. Two nights later, we didn't bother with even trying a taxi to get to the Shangri-La for our Horizon dinnerboat cruise. We hopped on the skytrain, even dressed in nicer dinner attire, and made it on time!

As far as hotels that are close to shopping, I'd suggest the Intercontinental. It is right on the Sukhumvit skytrain route, and is located right at the Chitlom stop, along with Gaysorn Plaza (very upscale shopping mall) and the Central Chitlom dept store (very nice!!... food loft is there too...)

Also very near the Intercontinental is the World Trade Center as it is just behind Gaysorn, and across the street via walkway.

The Siam Center/Siam Discovery area is just one skytrain stop away, at the Siam stop, or you can walk it if you feel energetic. MBK (Mahbon Krong--sp) and Siam Discovery are in close proximity to each other. There are skywalks that cross a very busy intersection to get from Discovery to MBK. This is really the heart of the shopping district, IMO, and is all along the skytrain routes. Another new shopping center is being constructed and will open in 2005 and is right between Siam and WTCenter.

My next trip to BKK should be in Feb 05. I'm already anxiously thinking about that trip. I hope you will have as much fun as I do in Thailand.

Carol- what is your gig with all these trips to Thailand? Are these business trips where you buy goods have them shipped back and sell here in the states?

Shoot - I lost a long post. I'll try to remember everything, it won't be in logical order any more though.

Most important thing: We *just* did this trip except we also went to Chiang Mai up north. Go to http://groups.msn.com/BernsteinAlbum/vacations.msnw and click "Thailand and Cambodia 2003".

We stayed at Poppies on Ko Samui. Loved it and highly recommend it! But, it was low season so not as expensive as normal.

In Bangkok, stay anywhere close to the river. They have river "buses" (Not the tourist boat!) that will drop you at the skytrain station. We stayed in Chinatown.

Stay away from tuk-tuks and unmetered cabs. Only use licensed tuk-tuks which we only found in Chiang Mai. It is similar to cabs here in the states, photo and license information will be on the back of the front seat or somewhere you can see it. Best bet - use the boats or have a hotel call a cab for you (your hotel or any hotel you happen to be near). If you get "scammed", be firm. They aren't out to hurt you, and will return you to you original location.

In Angkor, three days is plenty. 2.5 days is really all you need. There is a standard two day tour that the guides do. Then the extra day they will take you to the further out places.

Umm....what else did I have???

1. We flew United through LA then Tokyo. Worked great. About 2 hours in each airport.

2. Four days in Bangkok should be enough. The only thing we didn't do that we wanted to do was Wat Arun. Get (can I say this here?) an Eyewitness Guide. Those are great for self-tours of wats and buildings.

3. Jet lag - figure out the times in your time. That's what I did. We were coming from the east coast so the LA to Tokyo leg was when we slept. When we woke up by Tokyo we were on Asia time.

If you remember, take a photo of the Ko Samui airport for me. When we flew in, it was a monsoon. When we flew out, I was out of film. Beware of the departure tax at Thai airports. Costs you 500baht each for each flight. You must have it in cash.

I hope I remembered everything. Feel free to ask any questions. I'm new to Fodor's forum so hopefully I will find this thread again (something about clicking my name.)

gnr :-)

I agree about Koh Samui airport. Take pictures! It has to be one of my alltime favorites. It's open air! Planes land on the runway, turn around and taxi back down that same runway, and then let passengers off in a parking lot of sorts. You hop on a "Disneyland tram" and are taken to the "terminal" to claim your bags.

My son says the first time he went there, they didn't have a conveyor belt for bags. They just stacked them up and everyone grabbed theirs. Now they have a conveyor belt.

I think you would like staying at Poppies. I have not stayed there, but did eat a nice dinner there. The beach at Poppies is nicer than at the Regent where we stayed.

February will be my next trip to BKK. Hopefully I'll have the time to do a beach then! Samui would be my pick.