artsnletters

China isn't really on my to-do list, but I stumbled across an unbelievable deal for an 8-day (on the ground) tour to China - $649 from San Francisco, including air, 5-star hotels, English-speaking guide, 16 meals, and some sightseeing entrances. Like I said, unbelievable. The catch is that it's a shopping tour and you're required to go to a handful of shopping stops - jade exhibition, silk mill, tea plantation, cloisonne factory, fresh water pearl farm - but don't have to buy. I figure those might be interesting anyway. So I figured, what the hell! Otherwise, I'll probably never go to China in this lifetime, and if I love it, I can always go back. So I bought the trip before it filled up, without doing any advance research. So, a few questions:

How is Hainan Airlines? I'm 5'8" and have long legs, so I usually pay for economy plus on transoceanic flights. Should I expect to have to wedge myself into the seat? I picked an aisle seat with this possibility in mind.

I'm not sure exactly which meals are included, but what should I expect to pay for lunch and dinner when on my own?

I went ahead an bought all the offered excursions, as I had to decide at the time of bookin. They weren't that expensive. Most of them I am sure I want to do, but will I want to do any of these rather than just going off on my own? I take lots of photos, so always looking for good photo ops.

- Shanghai, Huangpu River Night Cruise
- Suzhou, Grand Canal Cruise - I think otherwise my only free time in Suzhou (we already visit the Lingering Garden)
- Huangzhou, boat ride on West Lake, otherwise my only free time in Huangzhou

I will have a free afternoon in Shanghai. Anything I should be sure to see/do?

The trip is obviously whirlwind, including Beijing, Shanghai, Suzhou, Wuxi, and Hangzhou. I'm going in late October (will be home in time for the election).

kja

You might find this recent thread of use. Pay particular attention to the long post by temppeternh:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...a-572632-2.cfm

artsnletters

Looks like I'm in for a very mixed time. I had no intention of buying anything, so it sounds like I can just prepared to be bored some. I'm great at tuning out. I'm only required to stay 60 minutes, so if it looks like it's going to drag on, I'll go for a walk. At least this won't have been an expensive mistake. Still interested in any feedback on the airline and anything to do in my limited free time.

Kathie

I hope you enjoy this whirlwind trip.

The shopping stops are always a red flag. Remember that the prices you see in this stores will be any times what the prices should be. Also, the shopping stops may be far from anything you would like to see/do, so don't assume that after your required 60 minutes you will have time to do something you want to do.

Also, be aware that the guides will just spout the propaganda they learned about the sites. Get yourself a good guidebook, which will offer you more accurate info about the history.

rkkwan

You're wasting your 8 days. Okay for those who, like retired, who have too much time and a few hundred dollars to spare. Otherwise, it's better to never visit China than doing this, in my humble opinion.

thursdaysd

That's a long way to go for a lot of shopping ops and westernized food. I suggest buying a couple of guidebooks and going off on your own at every opportunity (if any).

artsnletters

I've committed, so I'm going to have to make the best of it. There are a couple days I should be able to ditch the tour entirely, since we're there two nights. Maybe I will just go visit the Wall on my own and then do other things. Are taxis easy to come by?

artsnletters

And would a taxi driver in these places be able to get me to my hotel with the name and address in English? Just thinking when we get to a new city whether I could ditch the bus at the first stop and find my own way to the hotel after going where I please.

CanadaChinaTraveller

Food will be terrible. You can go and get your own decent food (not expensive) but some tours don't even give you that flexibility.

kja

Getting to the Great Wall on you own is extremely easy. Search this board for information on Badaling and Mutianyu -- the two segments of the Wall easiest to visit from Beijing. I took the local bus to Badaling and thoroughly enjoyed the chance to see local people interacting with each other. Mutianyu is also easy to reach by public transportation, though its a bit further. Posts on this board, particularly those by petertempnh, will include step-by-step instructions about how to get to either, and -- should you choose to go by taxi instead (I wouldn't -- your call) -- will also tell you how to manage doing so.

Taxis are easy to find. If going somewhere in the city, insist on a metered cab, make sure it is used, and DO NOT TIP! Beijing's subway system is extraordinarily efficient, easy to use (it is signed in English), and inexpensive. Consider using it whenever possible, particularly because surface traffic in this heavily trafficked and extremely polluted city can take much longer than the subway. If you are going somewhere outside the city and choose to take a taxi, negotiate the fare in advance. Again, look for advice from petertempnh.

Always make sure you have the name of any place you want to go writen in both Chinese and English characters. Taxi drivers will not likely understand the English writing.

Hotels in China -- even those in really good locations -- can be extremely affordable. You might even consider selecting hotels for yourself that will almost certainly be better located than anything your tour will include. If you are not already familiar with the concept, look up "sunk costs."

Good luck!

thursdaysd

Make sure any guidebook you buy has place names in characters. I also recommend a phrase book, with characters and not just pinyin.

Your hotels should have cards with the name in characters and often a map, make sure you carry one.

The guidebooks should have restaurant suggestions, but try to avoid the worst tourist traps. Cheaper may well be better.

China is a non-tipping country, but on this kind of tour I suspect that you will be expected to tip the guide and maybe the driver. (Especially if you are not shopping!)

lcuy

I heard recently about tour companies who now charge you a fee if you refuse to go into the shopping stops. You might check the fine print.

Years ago, my husband & I were invited to on many company conventions. 5-star hotels, private tours of famous places, dinners by famous chefs, etc. It wasn't like we were being forced to do shopping stops, but every now and then we just wanted to explore on our own, but felt sort of rude to act so ungrateful. We solved it by occasionally saying one of us had jet lag. We then had to sneak out of the hotels by the back door, but had a lot of fun on our hooky days.

You might try this, arts...

kja

Is it too late for cancel-for-any-reason insurance? You'd take a hit, but it might be worth considering. ;-)

BTW, I hope Scruffman is well....

thursdaysd

Yes, the shopping ops are how come the trip is so cheap.....

Kathie

"And would a taxi driver in these places be able to get me to my hotel with the name and address in English? Just thinking when we get to a new city whether I could ditch the bus at the first stop and find my own way to the hotel after going where I please."

No, the taxi driver will need the name of your hotel in Chinese characters. You hotel will have a stack of cards with the name, address and directions written in Chinese. Pick up a couple of these when you arrive at a new hotel. If the tour takes you to the hotel first, it would be easy to do your own thing. If not, print out the name and address in Chinese characters from the website before your trip.

Also, get the concierge to write your in Chinese characters where you want to go. Show this to the taxi driver, then show the hotel card when you want to go back to the hotel.

Good luck to you!

shelemm

Food is ridiculously cheap. Anytime you can get out on vour own, do. If they go out to dinner, you can stay behibnd or go on your own once you get there.

You can always get back to your hotel with the hotel's business card (no cab driver will speak or read English) or if you know how to say the name of the nearest intersection in Chinese, but that might take some practice on your part and the help of the guide or hotel staff. If you can get away, maps are your best friend. Knopf makes some great pocket map/guidebooks that have key points of interest and streets in both English and Chinese. The best of both worlds. Nobody will be able to help you with a map in English only, unless you get lucky.

kja

Many Chinese people can't read maps, as doing so hasn't always been part of their education or experience. And if they do know how to use a map, they might not use a north-is-top convention, which can lead to some very frustrating moments. Even so, I agree with shelemm that good maps would be of benefit to you. If you ask enough people, someone might be able to help.

Food can, indeed, be ridiculously cheap. But the water is not potable, so make sure that you don't use it (including using it to brush your teeth, etc.) and make sure everything you eat is cooked or peeled. And note that there have been a number of reports of the use of unsafe cooking "oils," so again, be a bit cautious.

Which reminds me -- be sure you check the CDC website for recommended inoculations and consider speaking with your doctor to determine whether s/he recommends anything specific for you. Also ask your doctor about precautions to take in light of the pollution China has been experiencing.

I'm not trying to scare you -- just to give you the information you need to prepare yourself if you do decide to go. If it matters, I thoroughly lloved my trip to China, which I did independently. (You know how to find trip reports. ;-) )

kja

BTW, I was serious about looking into cancel-for-any-reason insurance. If interested, you usually have a very limited time window for purchasing it. You can find your options on insuremytrip.com or squaremouth.com; be sure to read the fine print.

snorkelluvn

All of the cities on your destination are good. Suzhou has beautiful gardens, and you will probably visit the lovely lake in Hangzhou. October is a good month to go. You probably get to walk the Great Wall outside of Beijing, right? So, this is a great deal, even if you have to do shopping. In Shanghai, be sure to walk the Bund along the river, then go across the river to walk in the Pudong area (with the big skyscrapers). There is a lovely park with a lake over there. It is very impressive. Go to visit the Yuyuan Gardens in Shanghai also, esp. if you like gardens. Just gorgeous and interesting. Learn about Chinese history to make the places you visit more meaningful. Amazon prime has lots of history documentaries on China.

china is very safe and the people are friendly, but they may act like they know where something is, but don't. Definitely get the names of things in Chinese characters!! No taxi drivers understand Pinyin or English.

ticino

If you are planning on going around by yourself take an iPad, get a local sim-card and use google maps. Also, there are apps with all hotels, restaurants, etc in both Chinese and English so that you can show to the driver when you get a taxi.

China is wonderful!! If I had some free time in Shanghai i'd go for lunch/dinner or a drink at the Park Hyatt. We have stayed there twice, we love the views. The restaurant was on the 91st floor I think. The even taller building in front (Shanghai Tower?) may be ready by the time you get there. The Ritz Carlton has a very nice terrance if the weather is nice. Don't worry about the hotels being full of Westerners there will be plenty of Chinese and other Asians as well.