Thanks anotherlostsoul!

To say that planning this trip is an excercise in frustration, is putting it very mildly. Am I possibly going about this in the wrong way?

"This is my correspondence with a TA in Yangon. My request:
From Heho fly to Mandalay, boat to Bagan, bus/taxi to Pyay, then bus/taxi to Ngapali, then fly back to Yangon.

The reason I wanted to go to Ngapali was that I had read that it was not possible to travel,,to Chaung Tha or Ngwe Saung beaches, for foreigners. Is that still a fact?

I do need timetable for the flights and boat to Bagan. How long a bus ride is it to Pyay and then to Ngapali?"

The reply:
You can fly from Heho to Mandalay, then boat to Bagan. From Bagan to Pyay is not available now.
From Pyay to Ngapali Beach express bus not available for any foreigner. You can fly only to Ngapali beach.

The foreigner need apply to get permit for Ngwe Saung & Chaung Thar. It's easy.

For Mandalay - Bagan available on daily during high season. Sometime not available on daily due to lack of passenger.

As I am digging deeper I realize that I am getting literal answers. I can go to Puyay and Ngpali by road but it has to be a car and not a bus.

This is from a travel agency website, that look suspiciously official:
E) Rakhine State

(1) Package Tours and F.I.Ts are allowed through the inland route to Sittway, Mrauk-U, Ngapali, Thandwe, Gwa and Taungkoke either by plane, car or ship. Tours to Ahm and Kyauktaw are not allowed.

(2) Package Tours and F.I.Ts are allowed by car to Kantharyar via Ngathaing Kyaung Gwa Road; and to Ngapali via Pyay Taungkoke Road.

It really looks as if I will have to wait until I get there to make arrangements, and hopefully meet other travelers going my way, to share a car. Or hire one myself.

Am not ready to shave my head yet, but will try the Buddhist approach whatever that is.

Do not attach yourself to your desired outcome. Be in the here and now. Allow the future to unfold. Ommmmm... Breathe in the light, breathe out the tension...

(no head shaving required)

"As I am digging deeper I realize that I am getting literal answers." This is exactly my experience. I've had this happen with a couple of other trips. What I've found is that I have to be as literal as they are. So - Can I take a bus from Bagan to Pyay? From Pyay to Ngapali? (and in a later email) Can I take taxi from Bagan to Pyay? From Pyay to Ngapali?

In my experience, one set of questions at time gets answered, more than that, and you get an answer, but can't tell which questions they answered!

Even in person, I expect it will be a bit complicated, but I think it is easier than doing it via email.

I also find that my emails don't get there reliably (or get back to me reliably).

I emailed my hotel at Inle to ask about a transfer/car and driver, since I've though about going somewhere between the airport and the hotel, but have not gotten a response. A travel agency quoted me $125 for a transfer from HeHo to the Lake View. I'll take my chances with the taxis at HeHo!

I think I've made all of the arrangements I can/will before I get there. I will reserve our balloon ride. But everything else will get arranged on the ground.

Of course, your itinerary is more complicated than mine. I'm looking forward to comparing notes on our experiences.

It looks like the government is trying as hard as they can to prevent you (Nyw) from having any interaction with the locals on public transport, especially buses.

I have to say that although we used a tour company and guides in Burma, we were pretty much able to chart our own course. The guides were generally non-obtrusive and did not try to steer us to places we did not want to go to. I had planned our trip in detail - specific sites/shops to visit in Yangon, specific temples to see in Bagan and specific towns, markets and shops at Inle. More than on any other trip we have taken, the guides actually ENHANCED the experience (especially in Bagan and at Inle). I think we were being watched in Yangon which made our guide nervous and resulted in a less-than-satisfactory experience there. I suspect that you will also be watched, especially in Yangon. Trying to hook up with a driver on your own will be challenging but not impossible - just be aware of the risks the driver will be taking to allow you to hire him.

I just don't understand why you (Nyw) and Kathie are so resistant to having a local agency make arrangements (especially for flights and hotels) when this will provide access for you to a "handler" that can step in and bail you out when things inevitably go wrong. I see this as a great time and stress saver when you should be enjoying your vacation. Stubbornly insisting on doing it on your own in Burma seems counterproductive to me.

Craig,
I am not resistant to having an agency make arrangements, which is why I contacted one in the first place. Where the frustration level lies, is not getting the right answers, most likely because I don't ask the right questions.

Kathie I love it will try to memorize
Do not attach yourself to your desired outcome. Be in the here and now. Allow the future to unfold. Ommmmm... Breathe in the light, breathe out the tension...

NY, just turning up and hoping for serendipity is not in the least Buddhist. It only works if you're a nun.

Just how much of this trip is locked in? If you tell us the gaps, maybe we can help.

Craig, is it because I'm stubborn?

Really, the issue is that the travel agencies don't want to sell me what I want to buy. I found that making my own hotel reservations was best (except for one place), and I'm not interested in the daily driver and guide the travel agencies want to sell me (or the bus tour to X or the special tour to Y). The one thing I need help with is the flights, and I've got Eddie working on that. The problem is that the airlines don't publish schedules or prices for fall/winter until late Sept or October. The travel agency might have been useful for the long hotel transfer from HeHo to Inle, but they want to charge me $125. Nevermind. I can haggle with a taxi at the airport (actually I've read on Thorntree that the taxis are pretty much fixed rate of $30 to the lake hotels). I expect that I can engage a car & driver and/or a guide as needed. I don't expect to need more than perhaps a day and a half or two days total on this trip.

Dogster, if I am delusional about being able to find a car and driver as needed (I will likely ask my hotel at Inle), do let me know.

By the way, dogster, I don't consider "Do not attach yourself to your desired outcome. Be in the here and now. Allow the future to unfold" to be the same as "just turning up and hoping for serendipity." Ommmm...

Kathie / Nywoman - I don't know if you've contacted the agency I recommended yet but i'm pretty sure they could answer, clearly, your questions as posted. Their prices are good too. Incidentally, you can travel to Chaungtha and Ngwe Saung beaches - it's about a 6 hour bus ride or you can hire a taxi. Ngapali is a hellish bus ride for the hardiest backpackers only. The road is so poor and the journey so long the agency you contacted probably won't sell you a taxi transfer because they're afraid of what might happen to their car. ;) *But 'saving face' means they won't tell you that.

Kathie, Santa Maria originally quoted me hotels and flights only - no guides, no transfers. After receiving those prices I asked for additional information but there was no pressure at all to use any additional services. Pricing was reasonable - for instance, the transfer to Inle Lake was quoted at $26. Also, Santa Maria was able to tell me when and where the 5-day markets were being held so I could schedule accordingly and they knew the flight schedules even though they weren't posted on the internet.

Dogster,
I have 21 days in no particular order, none of it is locked in except my flights to and from Yangon. I do have my first night hotel in Yangon. That's it.
Arrive 13.50 Yangon Nov 3 depart 14.40 Nov 24
4 days Yangon
3 days Mandalay
1 day Boat to Bagan
3- 4 days Inle Lake
3 days Bagan
1 day Pyay
3-4 days a beach I don't care which one
plus extra days for travel

Forgot there is a flight to Heho booked for Nov 4th but that's it.

Thanks NY: Now, what is your preferred hotel in each location?

I guess, behind my enquiry is my personal philosophy of getting the bare bones in place before arrival. Yup, you'll be able to busk it - but all that will happen is that people will send you direct to the nearest office of the nearest travel agent, usually the one that just happens to be in their foyer.

Where you will end up doing exactly want you are trying to avoid now.

So, think about hotels - I bet there's a super easy solution. Really, bottom line, get the hotels in place, eh?

Or were you planning to use the internet to hook up? Mobile phone? Er... landline? How is your Burmese lately? Actually, you'll just deliver yourself into the hands of the nearest concierce.

And, if I may suggest, do the very thing I bet you haven't - lol - and look up some day tours in Yangon and Mandalay. Maybe in the Santa Maria website, maybe in Diethelm Travel. Even if you don't want to DO them, look at them and learn. These trips are what people will expect you to do. At least you'll be then talking the same travel agent language.

Who knows, you might find something that fits the bill. One stop shop. Easy, eh?

If there is a trip to wherever you want to go, with a car, a driver and a man to get you from A - B, do you have an issue with just doing that? Or do you want to re-invent that particular wheel? Both are fine with me. There are many ways to skin that mangy Burmese cat. There are many ways to get lost in Yangon, too. It ain't like you can hail a cab outside the established tourist areas.

But, NY, there just ain't any infrastructure. It's gonna drive you MAD. The only infrastructive is the travel agents. You will deliver yourself into their hands, one way or another.

So-o-o-o... why don't we just do it now, follow Craig's suggestion and get it over with? Ommmmmmm lol lol Ommmm lol.

anotherlostsoul, I have not contacted your travel agency. I know you think highly of them, as I've seen you recommend them on Thorntree as well.

I actually think I have enough in place that I can wing the rest of the fairly minor arrangements. As mentioned, I have my hotels and flights. If I find that the lack of infrastructure is greater than I am guessing, I'll learn that as well. I do know that there are always travel agencies I can utilize on the ground, and they can often be great sources for the car and driver or guide. Right now I want to leave myself a fair amount of flexibility.

Hi Kathie,

Myanmar is a country that you can 'backpack' ... i.e. just work things out as you go along, if you want to. If you are staying in basic, budget guesthouses agents are not much help - these are the cheapest accommodations anyway. If you want better quality accommodation, well, that's where agents become more and more useful as the more expensive the property, the bigger the difference between the 'walk-in' rate and the 'agent' rate.

If you are backpacking and have time to spare you can organise tours / long distance taxis via your hotels as you go along. If things are booked up on the day you want ... just go the following day if the taxi, or whatever is available then. If you have plenty of time inconveniences are less of a nuisance. On the other hand if you have only finite time in the country and a particular service is not available when you need it ... you could find that you've travelled a long way and not got to see what you intended.

This situation is obviously more acute if you're travelling in high season (November - March) when 'tourist' services are more in demand. This isn't just a Myanmar thing ... it's advice applicable to any country with a tourist industry and high / low seasons. The bottom line is that if you want / need a particular service on a particular day to make your itinerary work, you should strongly consider booking it in advance.

I just had a look back at this looong thread and you've mentioned a balloon ride in Bagan and the Heho - Inle taxi. You should certainly book that balloon ride well ahead - it's expensive but very popular. As for that taxi i'd get a quote for a taxi to take you to Inle via Pindaya and add some interest to the trip. On the way back just taxi direct.

I have not been to Burma since the '70's but I found myself reading your itinerary because the names on this post looked surprisingly familiar to me (lol) I wonder if you are planning to visit the place where elephants are trained? Not sure where this is but it sounded rather special ( as described by one in the know on a recent cruise!) The elephants and their trainers retire at the same time I understand aged 60.

If I am permitted to go to Ngwe Saung, I might go to the elephant camp. It is not on my list of things to do, but then who knows.

Dogster, it is a little hard to book accomodations when you don't know when you are going to be where.

lol. Well, I can't argue with logic like that, NY.

I'm with you all the way, NY - whichever way you play it. I think the trip report will be all the more fascinating for its serendipity.

anotherlostsoul, Nywoman and I are traveling differently from each other, so have different needs. We've both been posting about our trips for a while, so there is lots of background you don't have the benefit of. This thread is a bit confusing, as we are both posting, and a good answer for one doesn't apply to the other.

I am well aware of the need to book ahead during high season, as I've been visiting various places in SEA at least annually during high season (and on occasional at other times) for about two dozen years. All of my hotels are booked. As usual, I checked several websites and in this case also got quotes from an agent. I was able to get two of my three chosen hotels for less either by booking directly, or, in the case of the Strand, booking via lhw; for one hotel, I used an agent.

I've decided not to go to Pindaya this trip. I have a limited amount of time in Burma, so I have to pick and choose. Right now, my tentative plan calls for an afternoon on the lake the first day. Perhaps I'll visit some of the "on the route" sights that day. I have two full days after that, and I'll likely choose some less visited sites on/near the lake for one of those days and I'll likely choose a land excursion to Kakku, Taungyi and the surrounding areas for the other. I'll have a full morning the last day, and haven't yet decided what to do with it. I'm interested in general in visiting Buddhist sites, especially less visited ones, I'm interested in visiting places that allow me to see and interact with the local minority peoples such as markets that are not tourist-oriented, and I'm interested in local textiles.

If you have thoughts, anotherlostsoul, I'd be interested, as I know you are very knowledgeable about Burma.

I will book the balloon ride ahead as soon as I decide which day to do it. Now that I have a better idea of when the flights are likely to be I am in a position to book it.

Kathie,

I love your comments..."Air Bagan has currently published their fall schedule." Let's hope you are referring to the season, and not their planes!!!!

lol, yes, hopefully the season!

NY: here's what I'd do if I was you on your first day - you'll arrive at your hotel 3.30 - 4 ish. You'll need to sort out your next day's hotel and any local touring as soon as you arrive.

Then just catch a cab to Shwedagon about an hour before sunset. You don't need a guide or anything. Just say 'Shwedagon' to the driver. Getting in is easy, getting home is easy too, there are taxis outside the foreigner's entrance.

Stay at Shwedagon as long as you can, definately till after sunset.

No, those nice kind monks inside aren't nice kind monks. They have a racket going on. Sorry, but that's the truth. Just remember one thing: monks tend not to sit and chat to female tourists. If they do, they aren't - not in Yangon temples, anyway. These are ex-monks on a mission for your money.

Once you've finished weeping at the wonder of Shwedagon at sunset, go home.

That'll be enough.