great reading

First, a short recap for Jules and others.

Our itinerary:

A half day and one night in Rangoon

Two full days and two half days and three nights at Inle Lake

The full days and three nights at Bagan

A day and a half and two nights in Rangoon.

Because out time was short, we were very focussed in Inle and in Bagan and saw a tremendous amount in a short time. It was so hot in Rangoon and we were tired enough from our travels that we used our Rangoon time mostly for relaxing. We had a great visit to the Shwedagon Pagoda. I would like to have done some shopping in Rangoon, but really only ended up looking. Given our limited time and our specific goals, I felt like we had about the right amount of time in each place.

Reflections on Visiting Burma

I spent almost twenty years delaying a trip to Burma because of the terrible junta ruling Burma. I respected ASSK’s request that travelers boycott Burma.

So have I changed my mind about Burma and its government? Well, as dogster says, I can now see shades of gray where I once only saw blank and white. Having heard people’s personal stories only reinforces my view of the brutal military regime. So my perspective on the government has not changed. I am more convinced than ever that the junta is basically evil.

But I am not as convinced that the boycott by travelers and the economic sanctions have been effective tools against the government. The generals just keep getting richer and richer while the people get poorer and poorer. The natural resources of the country all belong to the generals. A number of people told us that all teak in the country belongs to the generals. It’s a similar situation with the ruby and jade mines. The government does not invest in infrastructure that would benefit the people, but instead spends its money on building a new capital out in the jungle with facilities for polar bears and underground tunnels in case of nuclear attack. You and I traveling or not traveling to Burma has no impact on that.

The people continue to suffer. A goodly amount of their suffering is economic. One man we spoke with said he thought the people wouldn’t care who rules the country as long as their lives were better.

When I decided at long last to go to Burma, I knew one of the ways I could help was by spending my money with locals. We did that. And we tipped generously, trying to spread our tourist dollars as widely as possible. I was impressed that visiting the areas of the hilltribes that have signed cease-fire agreements with the military government can benefit these ethic groups not only though employing individuals, but also by putting money into the coffers of the tribes who can then spend it to improve the lives of their people.

I keep recalling a conversation with a man at a restaurant over the water near Sankar. He asked me about the Great Lakes – are they fresh water or salt water? Fresh water, I told him. He nodded. I said that Inle is much more beautiful than the Great Lakes. His reply? “But we have no electricity and no doctors.”

My conversations with people after Obama’s speech at ASEAN reminded me how important it is for the people of Burma to know that people outside their country care about them, are aware of their plight.

In the last few years there has been more division in the National League for Democracy over the tourist boycott and even the economic sanctions. Reading the opinions of some of these people has been useful as well. See, for instance, The River of Lost Footsteps by Thant Myint-U and Ma Thanegi’s afterward to Native Tourist. I still have the utmost respect for ASSK. But I now understand that her way is not the only way. Will opening up the country more for visitors and foreign investment make things better for the people of Burma? I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that the boycott and sanctions have not had their intended effect.

Thank you so Kathie much for taking the time to post so much detailed information about what sounds like an incredible trip. I'm leaving for Burma in about 3 weeks, so all of this is quite helpful and I've been looking forward to reading it. We're only going to Yangon (3 nights) & Bagan (4 nights). I feel like I should have so many more questions!! But the Burma trip reports on here have been extremely helpful.

It sounds like a detailed agenda for visiting the temples in Bagan isn't as necessary (as it was in Angkor, for example). Would you say that's true? I made an attempt at writing one out awhile ago but it got overwhelming as there are just so many temples and it's hard to get a sense of where they all are in relation to each other.

Do you think it would be worthwhile to try to "reserve" your Bagan horsecart driver in advance... or is that not really possible based on the system they use?

And I guess lastly, could you make any recommendations for restaurants in Bagan (lunch and dinner)? Or other affordable Yangon restaurants in addition to Monsoon?

Hi John, have a wonderful time in Burma. I agree that it isn't as necessary to have a detailed agenda for the temples in Bagan as in Angkor. The number of temples is really overwhelming. And some very interesting temples aren't named and are not in the books. Have you been able to locate Paul Strachan's Book, Pagan? If not pick up a copy in Yangon or Bagan.

I do think it would be worthwhile to arrange Minthu in advance. Advance arrangements with a driver are respected. But if you just show up and say you want Minthu, that may be more difficult.

For a special meal in Yangon, I'd recommend The Governor's Residence or the restaurants at the Strand. In Bagan, there are two restaurants between the Hotel at Tharbar Gate and the gate itself that are supposed to be good. Frankly, we didn't do as much "local" eating as we usually do. Overall, the Burmese food we ate was ok, but rather disappointing for us (who love Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian foods).

Be conscious of making yourselves open to listening to the people you meet and you'll hear some fascinating and often, heartbreaking stories.

It is impossible I think to plan in advance the temples in Ba when I went to gan. There are so many and they are breathtaking.

The best meal I had was on my last day when I went to Nyaung U and ate Indian at Aroma 2. It was probably my best meal in Myanmar. Will try to finish my trip report as soon as possible. Also had a couple of decent lunches in old Bagan, at the vegetarian restaurants.

The Hotel manager made a list for me to show my horse cart driver on the various pagodas to see. I think we managed around 40+ or so in 2 days.

It realy seems that all the horse cart drivers are knowledgable, and yers they do have a priority system.

Bravo, Kathie. Fodor's should pay you!

Your afterword is an illustration of why it saddens me that Americans don't travel more. Estimates vary widely, but possibly between 15 and 25 percent of Americans hold passports (and that number has jumped wildly in the last couple of years because of the new passport requirements for Mexico and Canada). That's dismal, especially when you consider the small numbers of people that travel beyond North American/Carribbean countries, and the recent influx of immigrants, for whom a passport is de rigeur.

You can't really have a sophisticated understanding of the world without experiencing it, and even one trip, as Dogster suggests, allows only a narrow glimpse through tourist eyes.

Thanks again Kathie and Nywoman.

I echo the thanks.

I have a question for Kathie: Am I understanding correctly that the Ywa Ma market is to be avoided no matter which day one is in Inle Lake area? What would you suggest as the opportune time to set out for a lake excursion?

Thanks for all the encouragement. LAleslie, I have no illusions that I know the "truth" about Burma, but I do have a different prespective as a result of visiting. Like you, I'm appalled at how few Americans travel.

eks, For me, I would avoid Ywa Ma at all times. Others may feel differently.

I liked setting out at 6:30 each morning. Breakfast starts at 6, so you can have a little breakfast before heading out on the boat.

L'Opera rest. outside downtown yangon is very good

The 'Reflections' entry was very well written. I came to a very similar conclusion after my visit. Still amazed that visting Burma was one of my best trips ever in spite of the political and economic woes.

Thanks, Femi.

The photos have now been posted. Check them out:

www.marlandc.com/Burma

i've only looked at a few but they are fantastic....

any GTG pics??

is there a way to do slide show on that site??

Working my way through these photos slowly because they are very absorbing. Thanks to Cheryl.

Bob, Cheryl does have some gtg photos. She said she'll post them of flicker when she gets a chance.

To view the photos as a manual slideshow, just click on the first photo on a page, then click next until you get through the whole page.

Mary, I will convey your thanks to Cheryl.

Kathie, these are really fabulous photos - I've looked at much of Bagan and Inle Lake - they bring back fond memories.

Nice photos Kathie. Thank you and Cheryl for sharing them and, like Craig, they bring back a lot of memories of our trip there.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write a great report Kathie - very good indeed. I'm very pleased you enjoyed yourself.

Kathie, tell Cheryl that I have gotten thru the pictures. They are great and I was a fraid to skip any as I would miss a really great one...and they all are. There are several that are really outstanding.

Was the "mist" in Began due to moisture, or smoke from cooking fires etc? Do you feel you really missed an esential event by not being able to do the Balloons?

Looking forward to the GTG pictures. Let us know when they are up.

Wonderful photos and it sounds like you enjoyed Burma as much as I did!

Karen, the mist is truly mist rather than smoke.

We were disappointed that we couldn't get up in the balloon when we saw the balloons the one day they flew. We had such a marvelous time in Bagan that I don't have the sense we missed anything. If/when we return, we might try again.

We really enjoyed Burma.

i just looked at more and they are maybe the best i have seen on this forum....that brownie hawkeye is still kicking out great pics...

Thanks, Bob, I will convey your comments to Cheryl.

Just catching up here. Thanks Kathie and Cheryl for the wonderful report and pictures. We are now thinking of doing a little Burma with Thailand next November.....

Aloha!

Wonderful! I had time only for a brief look and will return. Rangoon has changed a bit since I was there last in the 80s--all those new Japanese cars!! Thanks so much for posting these...kudos to Cheryl.

"new Japanese cars" eks, the cars were almost all wrecks. In the US, they would have been junked years ago. Instead, these falling apart cars cost about US$20,000 in Burma! Yes, we saw a very few newer cars, no doubt the property of diplomats or the generals.

Items for gifts or bartering: I've just located the list I made while in Bagan. Bagan was the only place we were asked for specific items. Unfortunately, we had none of them, but next time...

Women want lipstick or mascara (Minthu said that while Burmese cosmetics are available, they are low quality and the women are always interested in good quality cosmetics). Next time I'm taking along all of those cosmetic samples I usually toss!

T-shirts, especially with US place names. One horse cart driver proudly told us that he has a t-shirt from New York and one from Boston. So you might take a few t-shirts along as gifts for guides.

Caps with place names or logos. Cheryl has a visor she bought at Royal Flora a few years back - everyone wanted that thing! But other cats, especially with place names are highly valued.

Personal care items. Children asked for a number of things (I don't advocate giving to begging children) including shampoo. I would have help my business class amenities kit from my transpacific flight and given it away.

Coins from your country. Several horse cart drivers showed us they have a collection of foreign coins... often just a half a dozen. But these are symbols of the outside world. Children love foreign coins, though they will trade you coins for kyat if they can.

Next time I'll take a number of such things along as gifts or to barter with vendors for inexpensive items at the temples.

At least they have "7 eleven", ha ha, there now!

Kathie,
This is where I will truly differ with you. Burmese women are not used to wearing make up. They didn't even know what lipstick and mascara were until the tourists came. I saw only one young girl made up and it was not attractive. The women in Bagan kept on asking "present for me" and when asked what, they said lipstick not for me for my mother.

The only real begging, except in cities where the elderly or poor women with babies who asked for money was in Bagan by the women vendors. I was told that the reason for this is that the French guide books advocate bringing gifts.

Actually the begging for gifts by the women in Bagan marred my visit, because it was so annoying, and so taken for granted by them, that tourists should give gifts.

I brought Smiley stickers which the children enjoyed as witnessed by the hordes that congregated when I put them on their hands or faces. I also bought food for children and adults.

Fanny, I'm not so sure that our positions are so far apart.

Only in Bagan did I experience women asking for lipstick or mascara. And they were not begging, but asking to trade their merchandise for items. Most of these women were wearing lipstick, so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that they wanted it for themselves.

I don't encourage begging, and offer this list as items one might want to bring to give as a gift to someone who is helpful to them (a horsecart driver or a guide) or for barter.

One of my favorite Burma stories is from a dear friend who visited Burma back in the days of the 7 day limit, perhaps 25 years ago. They were in a market in Rangoon, and were asked what they had to barter. They couldn't imagine what they had that people would want, but eventually came up with the first class kits (leather, full of nice toiletries). In return they were able to bargain for two lovely hand-made masks. They also had a batch of buttons that read "I (heart) Colorado" they had brought along for a professional group they accompanied to China which they gave away to people in the market. As they strolled the market, they began to see Burmese people walking toward them wearing the buttons they had given away! The buttons had already be traded two or three times!

Kathie, I'm afraid your last post has dragged me out of the woodwork, too. I really can't let this go by.

This is a wonderful report. I don't want to divert it or besmirch your integrity - but I truly don't understand why you would do this 'gift' thing, this 'tipping generously', this 'T-shirt and hats with logo' thing.

You've made a neat list of the usual chant of 'shampoo, stylo, lipstick, T-shirt... that besieges ever tourist in Bagan. With the greatest of respect, this is not about need, this is not about 'women want...', this is nothing at all to do with symbols from the outside world. That is how you interpret it.

Think about the source of your information. How many people did you meet - that you weren't paying? Did you ever get the feeling that you were told what you wanted to hear? Maybe you were taken for a ride in more ways than one.

I'm sorry Kathie, but in my humble, three trip, 90 days in Burma opinion, this really IS a case of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.'

I'll leave it at that.

You could well be right, dogster. I well recognize that my time in Burma was limited. I don't typically post about something like this unless I hear it a number of times. And in this case, we also spoke with a couple of locals about the items people we asking for. Perhaps my memory of my friend's story about bartering for goods in Burma colored my perceptions.

Again, let me be clear my list isn't meant to say "take these things and give them away to everyone you meet" or "give these to beggars" but is a list of items we were asked for. I do not give things away to children or to beggars, but I do believe in giving small gifts to people (like a horse cart driver) who do something special for you. And I do believe in the value of bartering. We did not do so this trip, as we didn't have any of the items asked for.

I do tip generously (everywhere) but I was especially conscious of doing so in Burma. You may think it's a bad thing. i know that some people, especially those coming from non-tipping cultures think it's a bad thing... I've especially heard this from Aussies. But coming from a culture where service people are very poorly paid and where tips make up a large part of their income, I am aware that I can make a difference in the lives of those who perform services for me by tipping generously.

And did we meet and talk with people we weren't paying? Yes, we did. Do I think that either those people or the people we were paying were a representative sample of the population? No.

Did I ever get the feeling I was being told what I wanted to hear? Of course. About this? Not particularly. I went to Burma with the expectation that my old friend's experience of bartering for goods would be long gone. So I was surprised at the things people were asking for and that they would be delighted to barter.

So I pass on this information for what it is worth. To you it may not be worth anything, and you may even feel it is damaging.

Caveat emptor.

Hi Kathie,

This was a wonderful trip report and has really given me encouragement for my upcoming trip at the end of January. You seem to have had a wonderful time - I hope I have such good experiences. I have printed out your report so that I can go through it carefully. I have already emailed Minthu to see if he can take me around Bagan for the 3 days I am there. I took your advice and had an agent in Burma do most of the bookings for me eg hotels, flights and the majority of the tours. I will let you know how it all goes. Once again thank you for putting me at ease and am now looking forward to the trip instead of feeling "trepidation" at the thought of it.

Wonkyknee, I expect you'll have a wonderful trip! I'm glad that my experiences can inform you planning. And I do hope Minthu can take you around Bagan.

wow have things changed in just a couple of years....when we visited we were never asked to barter for anything, nor was there begging of any kind.... of course we were only around yangon which might make a difference...

Bob, we saw very little begging, one or two beggars in Bagan.

The bartering issue is an old one in Burma. I know several people who visited during the early days of Burma opening up when they could only stay 7 days and had to be on a group tour. At that time what the Burmese people wanted was Western goods, as they were unobtainable in Burma. Vendors in the market asked for western goods in trade for their crafts.

There was quite a black market then. The tour guide told people to buy a bottle of Johnnie Walker and a carton of a particular brand of cigarettes at duty free in Bangkok, and the visitors would sell them (at the Rangoon airport, in the taxi, to hotel employees) and get enough kyat for their whole stay.

The most common request we got from vendors in Bagan was to exchange the US$ they had received in payment for goods into kyat.

i think maybe we were asked to exchange cash too but not sure....our driver did take care of lots of $$ exchanges for us as i remember--- at great rates

Three videos are now posted on you tube

Weavers on Inle Lake: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7pY8HhkMbo

A Pa-O wedding, Sankar Village: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITDVrxPc5ww

In the boat on Inle Lake: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zkzgzz4gbI

Kathie what a wonderful and informative and very thoughtful report this is. I too have been wondering for the past six years should I/Shouldnt I go. I have just read a great article in Lonley Planet about the pros and cons of going and what to do if you DO decide to go, which you talked about here as well. I am convinced and ready and excited to go in December. Thanks again and I shall print off this report as well.