Bhutan, Tibet, Vietnam, China
 

My husband and I are thinking of taking a trip to the above countries but have seen little in the way of discussion from members about the first two mentioned. Can anyone give me any tips for visiting there (individual tour guides, hotels, etc.)? Are people NOT going on trips there anymore? I believe these countries would be fascinating, but I'd like more info before I get serious about plans. Thanks, Marilyn

As for Bhutan, you have to go with a tour group. It is a government regulation and there is no way around it. Tours can focus on a variety of themes from birdwatching to Buddhism, but most longer tours seem to have some sort of focus. In addition, the number of tourists allowed in the country each year is highly regulated, which makes visas terribly expensive. I cannot provide much info beyond that. I found the Bhutan Embassy sight helpful.

Try contacting the Bhutan SOciety of the UK at www.bhutansociety.org for up-to-date and correct information. There is a lot of wrong and misleading information around about visiting Bhutan. We were there a few years ago and would recommend the country highly - absolutely beautiful!

Firefly--
Is it possible to go to Bhutan without a tour group? I believe I'd heard somewhere that you can get into the country without one if you enter from China.
In any case, would you recommend Bhutan OVER Tibet, if you had to pick? From what I'm gathering, a trip to either country is quite expensive, and we may have to choose.
I'd also like to hear from anyone if they think we're taking on too much flying time by including Vietnam in our itinerary. I think we'll only be in Asia for a total of 2-3 weeks.
Thanks again,
Marilyn

As far as I know, Bhutan still requires that you visit the country only as part of a tour group. All visa applications must be channelled through the Department of Tourism (DOT) from a selected tour operator. It is your tour agent who will process the visa application for you. The minimum tariff for tourists visiting in a group of 3 persons or more are as follows:

High Season Tariff - US$ 200 per person per night halt (March, April, May, September, October and November).

Low Season Tariff - US$165 per person per night halt (January, February, June, July, August and December).

Individual tourists and smaller groups of less than three persons shall be subject to surcharge, over and above the minimum daily rates applicable, as follows:

Single individual US$ 40 per night
Group of 2 persons US$ 30 per person per night

this information if from http://www.kingdomofbhutan.com/index.html
http://www.tourism.gov.bt

According to the US State Dept website on visa requirements for US citizens travelling to Bhutan (http://travel.state.gov/links.html):
BHUTAN - visa required. Tourist visas arranged by travel agency (valid for 15 days) and issued at entry point of entry in Bhutan. Visa requires $20 fee, 1 application, 1 photo, prepaid land tour, and onward/return ticket (approval time takes about 2 months). For further information, contact the Bhutan Mission to the U.N., 2 United Nations Plaza, 27th Floor, New York, NY 10017 (212/826-1919) or the Bhutan Travel Service, 120 E 56th Street, Suite 1130, New York, NY 10022 (1-800/950-9908 or 212/838-6382).

I don't think it is possible to enter overland from China, and in any event you would need a visa so going this way won't get you around that issue. From what I understand even going overland from India (Assam) is difficult because of the extreme security concerns in Assam.

I think seeing Vietnam in the same trip is probably doable, but consider the time of year. The best time to visit Bhutan is in the fall, esp late September and through November. Other times the mountains will be obscured by clouds. However, Sept and Oct are the two of the rainiest months in Vietnam (esp Sept), so you may want to avoid Vietnam at that time. November would be a good month for both.

I personally would choose Bhutan over Tibet for both political and cultural reasons. However, Tibet will be cheaper by quite a margin. The fees are high in Bhutan to discourage large groups and backpackers a la Katmandu in Nepal. . .

Beachmama,

With only 2-3 weeks, I think you'd be much
better served just to focus on one country.
Bhutan will not disappoint. With only one
airport and one road, you need two weeks to
see the country. Most tours go only to Paro and Thimphu and then turn around. The
best part of Bhutan is in the interior.
Vietnam is at least two weeks, even flying
from one city to the next. Make two
trips out of this and really enjoy these
countries.

Dear Cicerone and Pewang--
I really appreciate your feedback and your well-thought out information. Although I'd love to split this into two trips, which would be clearly ideal, it costs quite a bit to get to Asia from our home in California. Therefore, I'm trying hard to get as much "bang for the buck" as possible.
Bhutan's prohibitive costs are really a turn-off. What do you think about passing on Bhutan and going to Tibet instead? Is there a big difference in cost?
How about adding Sikkim? Either of you been there?
Vietnam has got to be on the itinerary somehow! Maybe I can extend the trip to a month....
Any tips on a good agent who can pull this all off for us for an individualized tour?
Thanks again to you both,
Beachmama Marilyn

Mt. Sobek Travel http://www.mtsobek.com/
has a 19 day tour to Bhutan, Tibet and Nepal. I recently took a trip with them
to Peru & they were very good. I haven't
been to Tibet (plan to go next year), so
I can't compare the two. I went with Far
Fung Places (San Francisco) to Bhutan and
really enjoyed the trip. I don't think they go to Tibetm but the may go to Sikkim.

Pete

I have not been to Sikkim, and it certainly an interesting thought; however, I wonder if you will find the culture similar to Bhutan. Sikkim is in India, and my guess is that it will be influenced by Hinduism and Islam so you may not get as strong a Buddhist feeling in the culture. The mixing of all those religions could be wonderful, I don't know, but you may not have the same experience as you would in Bhutan. I am not sure what you are looking for. ( I can only liken it to going to Lombok rather than Bali on the assumption that Lombok is next to Bali and must be the same; however Lombok is based on a Muslim culture and is therefore very different.)

You might want to post a new question on this topic, or go to "lonelyplanet.com". This is the site for backpacker travelling, and India/Sikkim are popular as Sikkim is much cheaper than Bhutan. Get onto the chat/talk site and post your question. The area of the site you need is called "Thorn Tree ". Select "Asia- Indian Subcontinent" and take a look at the postings there on Bhutan vs Sikkim, or post your own question. The site is somewhat similar to this Talk section of the Fodors site.

I have used Soebek for trips in Bali and thought they were very good.

I have not been to Tibet and don't plan to go until the Dali Lama does. . .

I am not sure how old you are, however, if you and your husband are in your 20s or 30s, I would highly recommend Intrepid for your trip to Bhutan. They have a trip that costs about 1/2 of the MTS trip. I went on a trip to Vietnam and Cambodia with Intrepid a few months ago and it was great, particularly for those in their 20s/30s.

Vietnam is a wonderful place to travel, and is quite easy to travel independently. You could easily spend two weeks in Vietnam.

You can book your days in Bhutan directly with a Bhutanese guide, and avoid the "middleman". We've had a good experience with Chencho at [email protected]. For low season, we are paying $160 per person per day, with a discount for the children.

If you have two or three weeks, just choose one of these countries. I also recommend the Thorntree (Lonely Planet traveler's board). Do some more reading on these countries to help you decide where you want to go, then ask a more focussed question on this board, and you'll get plenty of info.

By the way, there are great airfares from California to Asia these days. A flight to Bangkok, Singapore. or Hong Kong (all good gateways, depending on whre you are going) is less than $700 per person.

Thank you all for your helpful feedback. I think the thread that weaves through all the posts is that I would be better off focusing in on one general area or country rather than in trying to spread myself too thin.
My yearly vacation is so precious to me that I want to be so sure that I've planned it well.
My husband and I are in our early 50's so we're well past the hitchhiking or trekking days of our youth. We prefer to have arrangements made by an agent so that we are greeted by someone when we arrive in a new and different country. However, we refuse to travel in packs!
Among the places we've gone are Nepal, Botswana, and Costa Rica. We would like to see an area and a culture we've not yet experienced.
I hope I'm not taxing all of your patience and I promise to head straight for travel guides to make a final decision for our trip next year, but may I ask ONE more question? If it were you and you'd been to the places we've been already, would you recommend Tibet/Bhutan or China/Vietnam?
BTW, I really appreciate the referral to Lonely Planets'Thorn Tree site. It's another great resource.
Thanks again,
Marilyn

I've been to China, Vietnam & Bhutan.
If I had to choose, I'd do 2 weeks in Bhutan.

Good luck.

Pete

Well, if it was me, I'd opt for a combination of Cambodia (Angkor Wat) and Laos (Luang Prabang), neither of which are on your list.

If I was just choosing from places on your list, I'd spend the whole time in Bhutan (I haven't been there yet).

Hi. Several of us are thinking of going to Bhutan. Can any of suggest a good tour operator? We are not into trekking. Thanks.

wj1

http://www.farfungplaces.com/