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I worked for many years in a student health service, always travel with hand sanitizer, and will be as careful when we are there as I was in the health service during winter when germs were everywhere. LL and Kathie, it sounds like the two of you had very different experiences of KTM and Valley.
I am now debating whether it makes more sense to go to Bhutan first and finish our trip with 3-5 days in Nepal or vice versa--go first to the higher stimulation and then end with more tranquillity and happiness. Hanuman, I have fallen in love with the Como hotels. I am hoping to restrain my love of nice hotels (and in fact, "our" hotel in Paris is very simple and costs only 185 euro), but the Uma Paro seems irresistible. Still trying to find a place similar to Pokhara ,but hopefully less traveled in Bhutan where we could spend 4-5 days in same place and do day hikes. We will do one short trek (maybe Paro-Thimpu, maybe somewhere in East Bhutan) but I think my current fantasy of two is probably overdoing it if we leave time for Nepal. Have flight question I think I will address to whole forum. Thanks again for all your help , |
@Kathie<<<LL, I'm not sure where you got your data, but the population of the Kathmandu Valley was certainly not 150,000 25 years ago.>>>
Your're right, I was way too low - apologies. 150K was more like 1970. But the fact remains the population is now close to 4,000,000. While there aren't any kerosense run tuk-tuks now (no tuk-tuks at all), there's still dodgy fuel practices, and the sheer volume of traffic in 2014 and the muck it produces puts the 1990 numbers into insignificance... http://news.nepal-travel.org/2014/04...lems-in-nepal/ https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ne...w=1024&bih=653 And then there's the brick kilns. How many? I thought about 300, but perhaps I'm wrong, and the suffering and pollution they cause... http://www.animalnepal.org/documents...ckproposal.pdf And then there's the fresh water supply. Google 'Kathmandu, fresh water supply', there's plenty about it. And sanitation. The holy Bagmati River is an open sewer. Google 'Bagmati River is an open sewer'. But I'm glad we spent time there, no travel guide book can prepare you properly though |
LL,
Your descriptions of Nepal fit my stereotypes of India. Do I sense anger at how a beautiful country has not been well-cared for? Makes me sorry I turned down the invitation to go to the Everest base camp in 1972 (:--but I've been sorry about that for a while. Please tell me something nice about Nepal in the present day. Perhaps, it, too, sports rainbow flags? |
Just catching up with this as I have been traveling (only DC and a wedding in Dearborn).
I would certainly not say that Bhutan lacks soul, if by soul you mean someting spiritual. It is, however, much less lively than Nepal. I have trouble imagining anywhere in Bhutan outside, perhaps, Thimpu where you can't do day hikes, as there are VERY FEW roads. Local people get around by walking. But you should consult whichever tour company you choose. For my trip to Nepal with pix, including a couple of less-traveled places, start here: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...and-mountains/ For something very comfortable but not as expensive on the river in Bangkok, look at the http://ramadaplazamenamriverside.com/ and for something comfortable but more basic there is now the http://www.ibis.com/gb/hotel-7026-ib...de/index.shtml (although if you consider 185 euro a night "only" the Ibis may be too basic). But whichever hotel you choose I do recommend being on the river. |
LL, There is no question that Nepal has severe environmental problems. I don't need to google 'Bagmati River is an open sewer'. I know it is - I've seen it - and it was an open sewer when I was in Nepal in 1994. And it was an open sewer decades before that. Likewise, the Ganges. Are you arguing that no one should visit Pashupatinath?
You produce lots of links - but for what purpose? No one is suggesting that the environment in Nepal is pristine. I said that the air quality in KTM was better in 2008 than it was in 1994 because the tuk-tuks had been outlawed. That was my experience in those two visits at the same time of the year (Nov-Dec when the views are supposed to be clearest). If you want to visit Nepal - and it is a remarkable place, you will have to put up with the pollution, as you do in any Chinese city or any major city in India. It comes with the territory. I'm not sure what you are objecting to... Did you read my trip report? |
<<<Are you arguing that no one should visit Pashupatinath?>>>
Visiting Pashupatinath isn't part of the problem. It's the environmental issues involved with what goes on at Pashupatinath on a daily basis that'll need looking at sooner rather than later. If the environmental catastrophe enveloping Kathmandu [+ Valley] is to be properly addressed, then the remains of the 40-odd cremations every day of the year being swept into the Bagmati can't be ignored. |
We are in our 60s and spent 3 weeks in Nepal in March, and we did some great day trekking. If you are interested, post again, and I can give you some very different suggestions for places to visit than the usual ones (walking and sightseeing). We were not at all impressed with Pokhara and found other much more interesting and lovely places elsewhere in Nepal. I have not been to Bhutan but am quite put of by the need for $250 a day per person and the constant need to have a guide.
We've spent a lot of time in India, and we found Nepal to be less crazy and chaotic, and, other than the terrible air pollution in Kathmandu, much cleaner than India. Also, think about Chitwan park in Nepal; we really liked it. For our six week trip to India and Nepal this past spring we never purchased bottled water (we'd read horror stories about the iffiness of even bottled water in Nepal). Instead we purchased a Camelbak ultraviolet purifier that you just put the water in, shake it for a minute while the ultraviolet rays do their job, and drink. Worked like a charm. |
Hi Julies,
I'm very interested. I'm sorry to hear what you say about Pokhara--I am afraid it might be someplace that was very beautiful 40 years ago, but I also love the lakes of Italy and they have been visited and beautiful for hundreds of years. Could you also let me know places where you stayed? I am both drawn to what Kathie describes as the grit of Nepal and afraid of it. I would love to see the Taj Mahal but am put off by the stories of crowds and confusion and poverty . I am in my sixties, my husband is in his mid fifties. We are experienced hikers (a bit out of shape, but that will change), also somewhat torn between doing a full trek and a series of day hikes. So please write more. And I'll remember your tip about the water purifier. The $250 charge for Bhutan seems reasonable to me when it includes food, lodging, transport and a guide. The guide part I have mixed feelings about. It would depend so much on who you get. It sounds like the two of you did a wonderful job of discovering a Nepal less traveled by. Thank you for offering to share it. |
Don't totally disregard Pokhara. Just don't stay for more than a couple or three of nights. The problem with the place is that it's too popular, and is killing itself off by becoming over-developed. The main strip has some really nice places to eat, but there's too much same-same about it.
You can't beat the setting, you can almost touch the Annapurna mountains from Sarangot. The best area to stay for all round views is South Lakeside. We stayed in a guesthouse which doesn't advertise. It's gets lots of return guests and others by word of mouth. The views from the roof terrace were terrific. The hill village of Bandipur is a couple of hours short of Pokhara just off the Prithvi Highway. Bandipur is a true living museum, absolutely traffic-free, with some easy day treks in glorious countryside. We got there by the cheap, fun option of public bus from Pokhara, but I also enquired about a taxi, which came out at US$32 one-way. Considering the distance that sounded reasonable. |
Our dear, departed dogster described Nepal as "India lite" not as an insult to Nepal, but as a descriptor of being able to get much of the India experience with less hardship. He also thought it was the best "bang for your buck" experience. If you haven't read some of his writing, I encourage you to do so. Let me know if you need a link.
julies, I've really enjoyed your reports, especially India and Nepal, as you do a great job of finding places not on the tourist track. |
cmstraf--IMO the terms "lakes of Italy" and Pokhara don't even belong in the same sentence. If you are thinking that Pokhara is somewhat similar, NO WAY. We found Pokhara to be congested, the lakeshore dirty and uninteresting, and the marvelous boating we had read about on the lake was a joke. That's our honest opinion.
Because of some unanticipated events earlier on our trip, we arrived in Kathmandu with no plans for Nepal other than a one night reservation at the Courtyard Hotel (thanks Kathy). When there we made contact with Himalayan Expeditions (highly recommended)and used them to arrange drivers for us and to book some of our lodging. Before our trip my husband and I had gone back and forth and back and forth between ourselves as to whether to try a multi-day walk or to find locations where we could do day hikes. We too are experienced walkers and hikers (but not in the best of shape right now), and for us day hikes ended up being a really good choice. We spent three nights in Balthali Village Resort and did day hikes into rural villages from there. http://www.balthalivillageresort.com/ It is not deluxe by any means (if that is what you are looking for) but had perfectly acceptable rooms and food. In Bandipur we stayed at the Old Inn (very nice place) for three nights, and one day went out with one of their guides for a really nice nine mile roundtrip day hike into a rural village. Another day we just walked around the town and the area on our own. We also spent two nights at the Famous Farm in Nuwakot, and this place was nice for two nights, but it wasn't really an area for major hiking. But, the local town we walked to was a super interesting heritage site with lovely restored old buildings, one of which was turned into a museum. We had three full weeks in Nepal (IMO a bit too much unless you are doing a major trek) but really enjoyed our time there. Kathie--You've spurred me on. I'm going to start to post my very long trip report on the six weeks we spent in India and Nepal this past winter/spring. |
@Julies<<<IMO the terms "lakes of Italy" and Pokhara don't even belong in the same sentence. If you are thinking that Pokhara is somewhat similar, NO WAY. We found Pokhara to be congested, the lakeshore dirty and uninteresting, and the marvelous boating we had read about on the lake was a joke. That's our honest opinion.>>>
You're right. But everywhere in Nepal is rough and ready isn't it? And why not, that's how the vast majority of the locals have to live. If you obtain and believe the info from guide books, or biased rich folk on travel forums, then the reality might not meet your expectations. If you read about marvellous boating from a guide book, and you were sucked in, then the guide book achieved it's objective! You should have done a bit more homework. There is a lot more to the Pokhara area, and here's a secret. Stay with local people, recommended through word of mouth, and you'll not only have a great time. |
LancasterLad
We didn't boat! While walking around we saw what it was all about and immediately knew forget it! But, you are right in that the guidebooks promote this as an activity/experience in the town, and they do make it sound appealing. We always check things out on our own before jumping in and signing on. Actually, we had had strong apprehensions about Pokhara all along and probably wouldn't have visited at all, but we had a few extra days to kill, and it made sense logistically, so we did it. As soon as we approached the town we knew it probably wasn't going to be for us. We could see how Pokhara would be fine for people who are heading in or out to treks because it would be civilization with stores, bars, and restaurants. But, I don't get the draw for others. Sorry. There were so many other nice places in Nepal that I just want to relate my experiences so others can gain from them and my perspectives. I read quite a bit of your trip report when you were posting it, and I understand that the way you chose to approach your trip was different from the way many here travel in upper end facilities. I'd say I am somewhere in the middle between both extremes. |
Kathie,
Please send links to Dogster's reports. I remember him a bit from our Japan 2008 trip (I just got nostalgic reading my own trip reports). I hope that "departed" is not as ominous as it sounds. Julies, Thank you so much. I just skimmed through your post (between work things) and looked up the Balthali Village Resort. It looks wonderful! My hotel tastes are eclectic. I am teased (and then followed) by friends because I'm the kind of person who notes down room numbers, has favorites, but although I am picky, I like some 2.5 star hotels, usually end up in 3.5 star small hotels (Pensione Accademia in Venice), and have made occasional 5 star splurges which still make me smile to think of them (Iwaso in Japan, Le Tahaa Resort and Spa in French Polynesia, Four Seasons and Mauna Kea in Hawaii). My taste is better than our budget--but my husband gets these travel awards for every 5 years of perseverance in his company, which will be financing this trip. I hope to alternate moderate price simple places in Nepal/Bhutan with a few splurges. I fell in love with Uma Paro in Bhutan, and I would am drawn to Kathie's advice about the Hyatt in Kathmandu. We will certainly go for the oasis concept if we go there, also in Bangkok--one of the less expensive ones mentioned on the river. OK, back to what I'm paid to do. LL--would you feel comfortable sharing the name of the place you liked so much or does this forum feel too public? I have found a knockout way to navigate crowds (which I hate) in Yosemite Valley in summer (which we visit in high season only with out of the country houseguests) without staying at the Ahwahnee, but I'm afraid that posting it here would be all that it takes to ruin it forever. |
Here is the link to his website. Sadly, dogster has passed on to the great beyond.
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Hi Kathie,
I'm sorry. And you left me the note but not the link. I'm actually really sorry. |
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cmstraf.
The guesthouse in South Lakeside is called Pun Hill. It's owned and run by an extremely friendly Sherpa family, There's only 7 (large ensuite) rooms, two balconies, and a great roof terrace where you can almost feel Machapuchere and Annapurna II. A double room including an excellent breakfast (several choices) cost 1,650 rupees (US$16). Absolutely amazing value. Their e-mail address is: [email protected] In case you might be interested, we spent our first week in Kathmandu staying with 3 generations of a Hindu family just outside the Kathmandu Ring Road at Swayambhu. We booked that with Airbnb, and that was another amazing experience. Here's the link, and all the reviews are spot-on... https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/57124...uests=2&s=wozb |
Thanks Kathie and LL
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Kathie,
Is Dwarika's hotel near the Hyatt in Kathmandu and is there a reason you chose the Hyatt over Dwarika's? |
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