Beijing - Was I dishonest?
Aug 12th, 2010, 08:40 AM
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Beijing - Was I dishonest?
I have used FODORS´forums for more than three years. This is my first contribution with a reporting thread. I am afraid I am too verbose, so if you feel this is boring, please forgive me for the waste of your time. Also, if some English mistakes are encountered, please bear with me because English is actually my third language.
To the story!
While strolling around the ZhongShan Park, wife and I were approached by a nice young girl who offered to guide us through the Forbidden City. We declined her services for that day, but left opened the possibility of her guiding us on another day. We gave her our hotel address and telephone number.
She further inquired on whether we had visited the Great Wall.
To make things short, we agreed to joining a Badaling mini bus tour. Daney, that was the girl´s name, told us we would be included in a up to 15 PAX tour and should pay 100 yuans per PAX to the guide once they picked us up at the hotel next morning. As a result, yesterday, we were picked at the hotel at 7:30 and were escorted to a small van, no more than 8 seats, plus driver´s post.
I questioned the guide if 15 people were to be stuffed in the small van, prepared to decline boarding the tour, and was pleasantly surprized to be informed that we would be only 5 people, plus the driver and guide. The cost of a cab was between 600 and 800 yuan, so I figured that 200 yuans (2 pax at 100 yuans) for a semi-private tour was quite OK.
After the 5 passengers were on board, our guide informed that we would visit the Great Wall in Badaling, PLUS the Ming Tombs PLUS the the Olympic Park.
Hmmm... things were getting better...
We were further informed that we would also visit a Jade factory, a silk factory, a tea showroom and, finally, a foot massage outfit... Hmmm....
I asked the other 3 passagers (a young couple from Chile and a Calgary farmer) if they wanted the shopping part of the tour. Neither of us was interested in shopping jade, silk, tea or having a foot massage. As in a choir, we declined the offer of being taken to silk, jade, etc...
The collective lack of interest met with an unarguable and blunt "NO, NO". We were informed that it was not possible at all and that the tour could not divert from the pre established itinerary under any circumnstances.
Every nervous terminal in my body sent red signals...
His argument was: "Look folks, you will get free entrances to the Great Wall, free entrances to the Ming Tombs, and you will have a free lunch. What you are paying for the tour, barely covers those expenses alone. I cannot alter the itinerary. We don´t care if you buy anything or not. We just need to take you to those places and stay there for a certain pre established time. Roughly 40 minutes per stop"
A strong argument, specially since Daney had not told us we would get those free perks. Since I was determined not to buy anything, I figured, "Well... let´s see."
First stop: a jade ¨museum¨. If we had not been somewhat irritated with the forcefulness of the stop, we would have really enjoyed the amazing jade work and the process of sculpting jade stones.
A girl started to demonstrate and to lecture on the qualities of jade and their work. After that, she started to make my wife and the Chilean girl try jade jewelry.
In retrospect, I admit I was rude for candidly telling her we were at their shop solely because we were forced to and that none of us wanted to buy anything.
As a further irritation, the guide told us bluntly that we could not leave before the pre established 40 minutes had elapsed.
We were left alone to wander through the shop. There was an incredible amount of very fine art work. It was like going through a real museum. It was specially interesting to watch the artisans sculpting the jade, which was possible to do through windows which separated the workers from the tourists.
After 40 minutes we we driven to Badaling for the Great Wall of China. As announced, the guide bought the tickets and passed us through the controlling gate.
Our cost... ZERO, zilch, nothing.
What a sight. Pitty it was cloudy. That experience alone was enough for the 100 yuans and well worth the day.
After a couple of hours at the Great Wall it was already 13:00, and we were taken to small restaurant. Nothing fancy, but decent food. Our cost: the two beers we had ordered. The food part of the bill had already been taken care of.
Hmmm... can you believe it?
From the restaurant, we were taken to the Zhaoling tomb of Emperor Zhu Zaihou of the Ming dinasty and of three of his concubines. The guide paid the admission tickets and escorted us through the site. He tried explaining about some bloody rituals, but I was more interested in the sight proper than in the bloody story. All in all, excellent sight stop. Our cost: ZERO, zilch, nothing...
From the Ming tomb, we were escorted to a Silk factory. By this time, I had already felt the tour was not bad at all and in fact, I actually appreciated the silk part of the tour.
After the silk factory, we were informed we were to attend a tea ritual presentation.
The Chilean couple had gone to a tea house in Hong Kong and told me they were ripped off of a quite sizeable sum for tea.
Hmmm....
- "Steve, - that was our Chinese guide´s western name - What is the cost of this tea thing?"
- "Nothing! If you wish, you can buy some tea."
By now, I started to feel sorry, and somewhat awkwardly admitted to him I owed him an apology.
The tea girl was quite pleasant, explained us about different types of tea. Prepared four or five different types of tea and let us try them. I really enjoyed the Litchi Tea and the Jasmine tea. After about half an hour, we thanked the girl and, withouth buying anything, went on to the next stop: the Bird´s Nest in the Olympic Center.
We could not go inside the Nest, but could see and take photos from afar. Since we had not anticipated this bonus, it was more than welcome.
Finally, we were told that we would be taken to the foot massage parlor. I prepared myself to hail a cab. After all, we had already seen the Great Wall, we had already seen the Ming Tomb, and had already seen the Bird´s Nest.
Furthermore, it is not awkward at all to look at jade museum quality pieces. It was
also not awkward at all to go through the silk thing, in fact it was quite pleasant. As for the tea presentation, it was really very pleasant.
We were also warned that the foot massage thing would take about an hour.
Watching someone going through a massage for a full hour was really too much for my stomach, even after all the perks we were given. I was only afraid the driver and the guide would phisically hold us down if we hailed a cab.
With nothing else to lose, except maybe our lives, I shyly asked Steve:
-"So, what is the cost of this foot massage?".
To my absolute surprize, the answer was, believe it or not,:
-"Nothing! You can tip the masseurs if you wish."
My jaw nearly broke.
After having climbed up and down the Great Wall of China half way through to Mongolia (just kidding) the 30+ minutes of a fantastic foot massage was a God sent gift.
Forgot to mention that before the massage proper, while we had our feet in warm water with some herbs for roughly 15 minutes, we were lectured by a girl on the benefits of Chinese medicine. Even a supposed Tibetan doctor was offered to analyze our healths.
After going through a free consultation with the doctor and thanks to the auspices (ain´t this Chinese-y?) of and interpreter, they did try to sell me four bottles of pills for a round sum of 6.400 yuans (slightly more than one thousand dollars).
I showed them a great interest but had to explain that , regrettably, since we were going the Great Wall of China, I had not brought with me my credit cards and I never carried that much cash with me. But I assured them that I was totally sold on the treatment proposed and that the day after, or the second day at the most I would go there to buy the US$ 1000.00 medicine, as prescribed by the Tibetan doctor.
I do appreciate this was not really too honest, but it was the most polite form I could think of getting away from there.
I tipped the masseurs 100 yuans for the massage and later on another 50 yuans to the driver.
All in all, it was a fantastic day, a fantastic experience, and dirt cheap for a grand total of 350 yuans.
Finalizing, it was dusk when Steve and the driver dropped the Chilean couple and ourselves in a popular shopping center in Beijing.
Frankly speaking, the only but in this whole story is the fact that I am feeling like I acted somewhat dishonestly.
Otherwise, I wished we were victims of this type of scam in each and every place we stopped...
To the story!
While strolling around the ZhongShan Park, wife and I were approached by a nice young girl who offered to guide us through the Forbidden City. We declined her services for that day, but left opened the possibility of her guiding us on another day. We gave her our hotel address and telephone number.
She further inquired on whether we had visited the Great Wall.
To make things short, we agreed to joining a Badaling mini bus tour. Daney, that was the girl´s name, told us we would be included in a up to 15 PAX tour and should pay 100 yuans per PAX to the guide once they picked us up at the hotel next morning. As a result, yesterday, we were picked at the hotel at 7:30 and were escorted to a small van, no more than 8 seats, plus driver´s post.
I questioned the guide if 15 people were to be stuffed in the small van, prepared to decline boarding the tour, and was pleasantly surprized to be informed that we would be only 5 people, plus the driver and guide. The cost of a cab was between 600 and 800 yuan, so I figured that 200 yuans (2 pax at 100 yuans) for a semi-private tour was quite OK.
After the 5 passengers were on board, our guide informed that we would visit the Great Wall in Badaling, PLUS the Ming Tombs PLUS the the Olympic Park.
Hmmm... things were getting better...
We were further informed that we would also visit a Jade factory, a silk factory, a tea showroom and, finally, a foot massage outfit... Hmmm....
I asked the other 3 passagers (a young couple from Chile and a Calgary farmer) if they wanted the shopping part of the tour. Neither of us was interested in shopping jade, silk, tea or having a foot massage. As in a choir, we declined the offer of being taken to silk, jade, etc...
The collective lack of interest met with an unarguable and blunt "NO, NO". We were informed that it was not possible at all and that the tour could not divert from the pre established itinerary under any circumnstances.
Every nervous terminal in my body sent red signals...
His argument was: "Look folks, you will get free entrances to the Great Wall, free entrances to the Ming Tombs, and you will have a free lunch. What you are paying for the tour, barely covers those expenses alone. I cannot alter the itinerary. We don´t care if you buy anything or not. We just need to take you to those places and stay there for a certain pre established time. Roughly 40 minutes per stop"
A strong argument, specially since Daney had not told us we would get those free perks. Since I was determined not to buy anything, I figured, "Well... let´s see."
First stop: a jade ¨museum¨. If we had not been somewhat irritated with the forcefulness of the stop, we would have really enjoyed the amazing jade work and the process of sculpting jade stones.
A girl started to demonstrate and to lecture on the qualities of jade and their work. After that, she started to make my wife and the Chilean girl try jade jewelry.
In retrospect, I admit I was rude for candidly telling her we were at their shop solely because we were forced to and that none of us wanted to buy anything.
As a further irritation, the guide told us bluntly that we could not leave before the pre established 40 minutes had elapsed.
We were left alone to wander through the shop. There was an incredible amount of very fine art work. It was like going through a real museum. It was specially interesting to watch the artisans sculpting the jade, which was possible to do through windows which separated the workers from the tourists.
After 40 minutes we we driven to Badaling for the Great Wall of China. As announced, the guide bought the tickets and passed us through the controlling gate.
Our cost... ZERO, zilch, nothing.
What a sight. Pitty it was cloudy. That experience alone was enough for the 100 yuans and well worth the day.
After a couple of hours at the Great Wall it was already 13:00, and we were taken to small restaurant. Nothing fancy, but decent food. Our cost: the two beers we had ordered. The food part of the bill had already been taken care of.
Hmmm... can you believe it?
From the restaurant, we were taken to the Zhaoling tomb of Emperor Zhu Zaihou of the Ming dinasty and of three of his concubines. The guide paid the admission tickets and escorted us through the site. He tried explaining about some bloody rituals, but I was more interested in the sight proper than in the bloody story. All in all, excellent sight stop. Our cost: ZERO, zilch, nothing...
From the Ming tomb, we were escorted to a Silk factory. By this time, I had already felt the tour was not bad at all and in fact, I actually appreciated the silk part of the tour.
After the silk factory, we were informed we were to attend a tea ritual presentation.
The Chilean couple had gone to a tea house in Hong Kong and told me they were ripped off of a quite sizeable sum for tea.
Hmmm....
- "Steve, - that was our Chinese guide´s western name - What is the cost of this tea thing?"
- "Nothing! If you wish, you can buy some tea."
By now, I started to feel sorry, and somewhat awkwardly admitted to him I owed him an apology.
The tea girl was quite pleasant, explained us about different types of tea. Prepared four or five different types of tea and let us try them. I really enjoyed the Litchi Tea and the Jasmine tea. After about half an hour, we thanked the girl and, withouth buying anything, went on to the next stop: the Bird´s Nest in the Olympic Center.
We could not go inside the Nest, but could see and take photos from afar. Since we had not anticipated this bonus, it was more than welcome.
Finally, we were told that we would be taken to the foot massage parlor. I prepared myself to hail a cab. After all, we had already seen the Great Wall, we had already seen the Ming Tomb, and had already seen the Bird´s Nest.
Furthermore, it is not awkward at all to look at jade museum quality pieces. It was
also not awkward at all to go through the silk thing, in fact it was quite pleasant. As for the tea presentation, it was really very pleasant.
We were also warned that the foot massage thing would take about an hour.
Watching someone going through a massage for a full hour was really too much for my stomach, even after all the perks we were given. I was only afraid the driver and the guide would phisically hold us down if we hailed a cab.
With nothing else to lose, except maybe our lives, I shyly asked Steve:
-"So, what is the cost of this foot massage?".
To my absolute surprize, the answer was, believe it or not,:
-"Nothing! You can tip the masseurs if you wish."
My jaw nearly broke.
After having climbed up and down the Great Wall of China half way through to Mongolia (just kidding) the 30+ minutes of a fantastic foot massage was a God sent gift.
Forgot to mention that before the massage proper, while we had our feet in warm water with some herbs for roughly 15 minutes, we were lectured by a girl on the benefits of Chinese medicine. Even a supposed Tibetan doctor was offered to analyze our healths.
After going through a free consultation with the doctor and thanks to the auspices (ain´t this Chinese-y?) of and interpreter, they did try to sell me four bottles of pills for a round sum of 6.400 yuans (slightly more than one thousand dollars).
I showed them a great interest but had to explain that , regrettably, since we were going the Great Wall of China, I had not brought with me my credit cards and I never carried that much cash with me. But I assured them that I was totally sold on the treatment proposed and that the day after, or the second day at the most I would go there to buy the US$ 1000.00 medicine, as prescribed by the Tibetan doctor.
I do appreciate this was not really too honest, but it was the most polite form I could think of getting away from there.
I tipped the masseurs 100 yuans for the massage and later on another 50 yuans to the driver.
All in all, it was a fantastic day, a fantastic experience, and dirt cheap for a grand total of 350 yuans.
Finalizing, it was dusk when Steve and the driver dropped the Chilean couple and ourselves in a popular shopping center in Beijing.
Frankly speaking, the only but in this whole story is the fact that I am feeling like I acted somewhat dishonestly.
Otherwise, I wished we were victims of this type of scam in each and every place we stopped...
Aug 12th, 2010, 10:32 AM
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Very interesting story. And by the way, your English is excellent.
As you figured out, the tour profit comes from the money you spend at the shopping stops. You got a good deal, as you didn't buy. The only cost to you above the tour cost was your time.
Were you dishonest in telling them you would be back to buy US$100 worth of herbal pills? Yes. Was it a terrible thing to do? IMO, no.
We don't hear many stories like this where the tourist comes out without being fleeced. Usually the stories we hear are the $600 tea ceremonies!
As you figured out, the tour profit comes from the money you spend at the shopping stops. You got a good deal, as you didn't buy. The only cost to you above the tour cost was your time.
Were you dishonest in telling them you would be back to buy US$100 worth of herbal pills? Yes. Was it a terrible thing to do? IMO, no.
We don't hear many stories like this where the tourist comes out without being fleeced. Usually the stories we hear are the $600 tea ceremonies!
Aug 12th, 2010, 12:02 PM
#3
Kathie - that was a $1,000, not 100!
I wouldn't have told them I'd be back, but I don't know that it
is anything to worry too much about. And if you're worried about not buying at the shopping ops, you told them upfront that you wouldn't. Of course, the guide may still have hoped, but I'm sure there was a commission just for bringing you in (that's why he wouldn't change the itinerary), although he missed out on extra payments from your purchases.
I wouldn't have told them I'd be back, but I don't know that it
is anything to worry too much about. And if you're worried about not buying at the shopping ops, you told them upfront that you wouldn't. Of course, the guide may still have hoped, but I'm sure there was a commission just for bringing you in (that's why he wouldn't change the itinerary), although he missed out on extra payments from your purchases.
Aug 19th, 2010, 06:09 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it either. I've read many reviews about the "tours" to the great wall and how they mandate these stops because they get a kick-back. It's their choice to do business in that kind of way and it's your business to shop in your kind of way (meaning to buy over-priced items or not).
Glad to hear that you at least enjoyed the stops and managed to not cave in to demanding sales men. Good for you!
Glad to hear that you at least enjoyed the stops and managed to not cave in to demanding sales men. Good for you!
Aug 23rd, 2010, 07:58 PM
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I think you did fine. The commission shops rely completely on having tours come in and they work by seeing as many people as possible, hoping a few will bite for the over priced goods and services. (like spam....not many will answer, but the few make up for the 99.% that don't send money to Nigeria). The tour guy made his quota of bringing bodies in, so he's covered. The sales people must see many many people who escape their clutches and never come back, so I wouldn't worry one more second about their feelings or if you made less than 100% disclosure. You felt you had to talk your way out of a pressurized sales situation and you survived! And whoever owns these factories no doubt are multi-millionaires and aren't wasting one minute of sleep worrying about whether you had a good trip or not! Great story, thanks for sharing.
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