Bali Survey
 

I'm curious to know who's going, who's cancelling.

I've decided to go ahead with my plans, both for personal week at the Amankila and the Legian and for a professional party for 100 at the Legian and Sofitel. I'm confident about the first part but I little wary about the second as I'm responsible for a lot of overseas visitors. No one wanted to cancel, however, so we're going ahead.

Has any one been to Seminyak after the recent bombings? I wonder how the resorts and restaurants have stepped up security. They've been good about checking cars for several years now, but walk-on traffic from the beach is still a vulnerable link in their overall security. I'd appreciate any observations.

putu told me last week that he had a few cancellations for his driving/guiding around bali, but that most people have decided to forge ahead...

Flying tomorrow and will be staying at the Uma in Ubud.

Have gone the full round for our trip at Christmas. Initially, going. Then not going, then going, then not going. Now??? We're going, maybe.

Our daughter has expressed concern about the Bali bombs and the risk to us and other people and wants to know if there will be more bombs...how do I answer that?

She's pretty up on international terrorism for an 8 year old...unfortunately, she saw 9/11 live on CNN (not our choice, but she was right there with us when we just happened to turn on the TV and the 2nd plane just went right into the tower before our eyes), then by her choice, visited the WTC site in NYC that winter. She has friends in London she was worried about last summer when there were bombs in London.

What all of this awareness means is that she is reluctant to go anywhere at this point. In trying to ease her fears a bit about Bali, I said something like terrorists want to scare a lot people by hurting or killing some, like in Bali, London and New York. We never know where or when they will do something, so we're best to just go on with our plans as if there were no problem, as we can't predict when or where they will hit next, so we can't avoid it. If we really want to avoid it, we probably need to stay in our house all the time.

BIG mistake...next day, she was afraid to go to school, because MAYBE a bomb would be in her school. Got her over that pretty quickly, but her huge concern worries me.

How do we tell her that we'll be safe when we may not be, regardless of where we go? I'm in a real parenting funk right now about this whole terrorism thing. Advice more than welcome about any of these issues you see here.

I have to tell you what I've learned over the past week, from stories in the Australian media. Very credible journalists.

People who work in hospitality in Bali knew that a bomb was going to be set off that night. They did not say their were Balinese people involved but some travellers were warned not to go out on the Sat night of the bombings, by their hotel staff or by acquaintances they had made in Bali. These second round of bombings put a whole new slant on tourist areas in Bali.

Tourists are being targeted. Families at restaurants, (not rowdy bars) are targets.

In London it was British workers on the tube. In New York, the same. But in Bali it is tourists and unless the Indonesian Govt. do whatever it takes to root out these JI fanatics, Bali will continue to be targeted because it is a tourist haunt and bombs will continue to be used there, imho. I don't know the answer to your predicament. It surely is a difficult one but others have said on other threads that there are places to go where the government of the country you are holidaying will not tolerate what happened in Bali. Those bombers have been tolerated in Indonesian society, by the lawmakers and the politicians.

Sorry, I meant to say in New York it was workers. Not tourists.

I had the same problem with explaining to my daughter(14) about terrorism and justifying going to Bali so soon after the bombing.

Just two day after the Bali bombing a tour boat capsized and 24(?) tourist drowned somewhere around the great lakes. I explained to my daughter that people can die from many different causes and not just from terrorist bombing. There are over 6 billion of us on this earth and I would say at all time that there are over 100 million people who can be categorized as tourists at any given time. Even if 1,000 tourist die a year from any causes, the odds of something happening to us is so small - around 0.0001 percent. To live in fear is something that I will never teach my kid but at the same time I also teach her not to take any unnecessary risk like vacationing in Baghdad?

And, Hanuman, Baghdad? Add vacationing in Bali to that list as well! Folks, do you have rocks in your head? If Indonesia's OWN CHIEF OF POLICE says Bali is NOT SAFE, with the two masterminds of the bombing STILL on the loose and believed to be in hiding on the island (one of the masterminds a degreed engineer!) then how much more of a warning do you need???? And it's one thing if you are an adult, and don't care about the risk, not to mention the fear factor-which is one of the reasons you take a vacation-to relax, and NOT have to be fearful and under stress worrying about another attack, isn't it?) but to take a CHILD there, who has no choice in the matter? That's really irresponsible.


The risk of yet another bombing in Indonesia right now is very very high. If you won't listen to the Australian, British and American Govts. on this matter, then you better check your insurance policies, because if something should happen to you, it most likely will NOT be covered, as you traveled to a country that is under a TW-that's an exclusion under most policies.

I can't even conceive of going to Bali before the two bombers are caught-you've no idea how dangerous the situation is there right now. People may still be going, and then come back and say, hey look, I went and nothing happened to me! But that's not really the point is it? It's all about risk management-and those people who casually watched as the suicide bomber walked into the restaurant, looking distinctly out of place with a bulging backpack clearly visible in the video-(and this after the London bombings-where was security? Why wouldn't backpacks be checked before entry into all major tourist centers of Bali, partic. Kuta and Sanur?-that situation in itself should give one pause!) -those people would be alive and uninjured today if they had but heeded the warnings, and practiced risk management-there are plenty of places to go where such bombings specifically targeting tourists are NOT happening-and until the situation changes in Indonesia, and Bali in particular, you'd have to have somewhat of a death wish to want to be there now.

For the record, our child DOES have a choice where she goes. We make a family decision each and every time we travel. I believe we are quite responsible, thank you very much, and we are teaching our daughter about responsibility as well.

This discussion is not about insulting someone's parenting or decision-making skills. Marmot was just curious. I just asked for advice about talking to my daughter. No one needs to be told they have "rocks in their head." The posters here are intelligent, reasonable people.

Spygirl, if you lost the chip on your shoulder for just a moment and wrote like equals were reading your posts rather than preaching like an evangelist of the dangers of Bali, Indonesia, Turkey...then maybe you'd be taken more seriously and your otherwise good information would be more than welcome. Calm down and be civil, stop insulting our intelligence.

I was there in Bali the day of the bombing. We were in a villa at a party at Legian, went back to our villa in Seminyak via the Legian Hotel to drop someone. Security was enhanced but not terribly. We flew to Jogjakarta the next morning expecting the airport to be a nightmare of security checks - it had been tightened eg a baggage screening right at the entrance but was moving efficiently. I would still go. This is a personal decision partly because I do not want the tourist depedent economy to completely collapse.

Well said, KimJapan. I am now actually considering a side trip to Bali next spring as part of my trip to Java and Thailand. I expect tourism to drop off and feel they need some support. Time will be my main consideration, not terrorism. And no, I do not have rocks in my head. I have empathy in my heart.

If terrorism were my big concern, I wouldn't get on a subway today to go to work. I don't care what the gov't says, there is NO security on NYC subways, I ride them every day and never see any sign of it. What should I do, hide in home? I don't think so.

just as i was afraid of...open the can and out she comes....full barrell

KimJapan:
BRAVO!!!

rhkkmk:
Say the magic words in reverse this time and maybe it will go away :)

Having lived in Indonesia for 10 years I have had more experience with terrorism than I wish to recount, however, and this is a big however, I've felt my own risk level to be manageable. One thing that's been consistent: nothing that was predicted ever happened as warned. All the bad events -- the bombs, the riots, the earthquake/tsunami -- happened at times and in places that the analysts and security experts completely missed hindsight and rumor, not withstanding.

In fact in some cases leaving Indonesia been tragically counter productive. People went to Phuket last Christmas instead of Bali and were swept away. One of the international schools held graduation in another country during the political upheaval and a teen died in a horrible accident.

Bad things happen in good places.

As a frequent international traveler it's impossible to avoid the risk of terrorism. Australia, France, Singapore may have escaped so far, but will they indefinitely? I wouldn't be so sure. They whole point of terrorism is its unpredictablilty and irrationality. You can't win by trying to reason it out.

I'm in New York now and spent last weekend avoiding the subways. I was in Madrid at the time of the recent Bali bombings worrying about the trains. Same for London. There are public places like subway stations, Jimbaran Beach, Orchard Road, Times Square that just can't be reliably secured. Half the world is wearing backpacks! Luck and statistical risk play a large part in my decision to visit those places. I avoid crowds as a rule.

I also know more about the Indonesian government than I wish I did. Everything Lyndie and Spygirl say is true up to a point. It's a terribly corrupt ineffectual system, however (another big however) it has improved enormously over the past eight years. It may take a generation to get to an acceptable level but Indonesia is sincerely trying to become a responsible member of the world community. Ironically, it is democracy that's given the extremists more lattitude to operate. This is a problem in all free countries: where to draw the line between national security and individual rights.

So, bottom line, I will stay in Jakarta and I will go to Bali. I will not go to clubs in Block M or Kuta or Seminyak, but then again I never did. When I have my corporate event, I will advise my guests to stay near the resorts or tour in the Ubud area.

The airports are what worry me the most.

So back to my original question -- has anyone been to La Lucciola or KuDeTa recently? They have secure entrances from the road but wide open beach access. Have any security measures been introduced?

To KimJapan -- In my opinion Ubud will not be targeted. Tell your daughter that her parents will keep her out of harm's way, period.

KimJapan:
If it were me I would not take my child into that type of situation knowingly. I know you have a deep affection for Bali and don't want to "let the terroists win" but I would not take that chance with my children. Bali will always be there for another trip down the road when all is settled. You can explore with your child a "whole new set of places" (Fiji, Tahiti, Tonga, Samoa, etc) with beautiful beaches , scenery and different cultures that you and your child can learn about together. By planning someplace totally different and less contraversial it may ease your childs fears about travelling and make travelling fun again and not a "concern" to him or her. I hope I'm not sounding like "you know who" :), but I thought I would give you my heartfelt opinion about this as you have unselfishly helped all of us out on this board countless numbers of times. Hope you have a nice trip whatever you decide.
Aloha!

Chrisjohnson:
Only 5 responses when I click on your name...all of them politically motivated and bigotted
GET OUT OF HERE TROLL !!!

Thank you for the advice everyone :) We are still working on our decision about Bali, and we are going to work more on our back up plan, moving beyond choosing Vietnam as a destination and actually mapping out an itinerary.

hawaiiantraveler - Thank you. Your words are kind. Funny...I had Hawaii as our backup for some time, until we no way no how could get back to Japan when we needed to. Another time.

marmot - though I have been reading other forums and blogs about Bali, not once has anyone mentioned security anywhere. Nick, from baliblog.com, lives in Seminyak, so you could e-mail him and ask. I bet he'd answer you quickly. Then you'd have a first hand account that is fairly reliable. His blog is quite good too.

Greeting from Ubud, Bali!

The whole island is quieter than usual but my flight from Singapore was quite full. All the local people are very sad about the bombing and most will engage you in conversation about this matter.

I've seen some security improvement like screening prior to entering a restaurant(hand held metal detector and private security guard) and more police presence around places where tourist concentrate.

The weather is very nice in Ubud(hot days and cool night), the rupiah is quiet weak, 10,120 per 1 US$ - good for shopping and everyone is happy and appreciative to see foreign visitors.

FYI - The Uma hotel IS very nice!

Looks like the editors have zapped the troll, but of course they have a habit of coming back in another guise. This one shouldn't be hard to recognise when/if he does.

Hanuman - Glad you're having a nice time at Uma. I really liked it there so much. What kind of room do you have?

KimJapan - I always enjoy your intelligent and well thought out comments and know you must be a great mother to give your daughter all the experiences you do. I support everything you said.

I wish the nasty and aggressive people on this board would disappear in a puff of smoke like in a magic show - and you all know who I mean.